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starrs0
Guest
If a person were to kill someone in self defense is that still considered a mortal sin?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
No.
This is how the Catechism puts it:
Legitimate defense
2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65
2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66Note how this is phrased – you have a right to defend yourself using reasonable force. In some circumstances you may be compelled to use deadly force in self-defense, but the purpose is not to kill your attacker, but only to stop his aggression. His death might be an outcome, but not one you wish for.
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DeFide
Guest
No, provided you did not go beyond what was required for self-defense. On the other side, be aware that you need not “pull punches” either. See the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
**Legitimate defense **
2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… The one is intended, the other is not.”[65]
2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.[65]
2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]
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dumspirospero
Guest
No…of course not…read the Catechism…one thing is for sure…if someone trys to kill me…I wouldn’t hesitate to defend myself and use deadly force if necessary…the same thing goes with our soldiers…they are defending themselves…
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VociMike
Guest
Which brings up another question. Which is the better translation for the commandment? Thou shall not kill, or Thou shall not murder? I’ve seen both. It would seem that murder is more in line with the other commandments, since they do not prohibit all acts of a certain kind but only “wrong” acts. Thus for example, adultery is prohibited but not all sex (that is, not maritial sex). Bearing false witness is prohibited but not telling a falsehood in e.g. a story (or even in hiding persons from illegitimate authorities).
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Thou shall not murder is the better translation. Neither Catholicism nor Judaism demands you submit to an unjust attacker. Both religions allow for military operations in just war. Both religions allow for the execution of duly-convicted henious criminals.
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Chazemataz
Guest
No, it is not. In more than one occasion God orders His people to kill others. God orders the killing of MANY people. Read Exodus. But all that is because of something bad somebody did. God never ordered the Jews to kill somebody because He didnt like them. He killed people such as the egyptians and Babylonians because of how evil they were: not obeying God. The real commandment is “Thou shall not MURDER.” The King James Bible version is horrible. It is completely innacurate. King James rushed the publishment so many translations were screwed up. I suggest getting a REAL bible, a Catholic bible, which has the proper translations and the Truth.
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slinky1882
Guest
Nope, sure isn’t. All the above posts are good, but I would use an analogy. Just as no person harboring Jews mortally sinned by telling the SS there were none in the house, a use of deadly force is licit in self-defense. And for say a parent for their child, the self-defense is a duty and act of Love. Thanks and God Bless.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello starrs,
Moses came down Mt. Sini with God’s ten commandments, the commandments to love God and neighbor, and the commandment to take no revenge. Moses then leads the Levites into battle against thier own countrymen who are leading the people astray from God. In doing so Moses saves the Israelite nation from enialation from God. Moses certianly knows the commandments, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”, love your neighbor as yourself, and take no revenge. Moses never broke any of these commandments in his obedience to God. That day the Levites attain a special possition as ministers to God for thier part in killing to put down the rebellion.
Please visit Throwing Stones
NAB EXO 32:7
With that, the LORD said to Moses, “Go down at once to your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt, for they have become depraved. They have soon turned aside from the way I pointed out to them, making for themselves a molten calf and worshiping it, sacrificing to it and crying out, ‘This is your God, O Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt!’ I see how stiffnecked this people is,” continued the LORD to Moses. “Let me alone, then, that my wrath may blaze up against them to consume them. Then I will make of you a great nation.”
But Moses implored the LORD, his God, saying, “Why, O LORD, should your wrath blaze up against your own people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with such great power and with so strong a hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent he brought them out, that he might kill them in the mountains and exterminate them from the face of the earth’? Let your blazing wrath die down; relent in punishing your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, and how you swore to them by your own self, saying, ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky; and all this land that I promised, I will give your descendants as their perpetual heritage.’” So the LORD relented in the punishment he had threatened to inflict on his people.
Moses then turned and came down the mountain with the two tablets that were written on both sides, front and back; tablets that were made by God, having inscriptions on them that were engraved by God himself.
NAB DEU 6:4 The great commandment.
When Moses realized that, to the scornful joy of their foes, Aaron had let the people run wild, he stood at the gate of the camp and cried,** “Whoever is for the Lord, let him come to me!” All the Levites then rallied to him, and he told them, “Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: Put your sword on your hip everyone of you! Now go up and down the camp, from gate to gate, and slay your own kinsmen, your friends and neighbors!” The Levites carried out the command of Moses, and theat day there fell about three thousand of the people. **Then Moses said, "Today you have been dedicated to the LORD, for you were against your own sons and kinsmen, to bring a blessing upon yourselves this day."
Moses came down Mt. Sini with God’s ten commandments, the commandments to love God and neighbor, and the commandment to take no revenge. Moses then leads the Levites into battle against thier own countrymen who are leading the people astray from God. In doing so Moses saves the Israelite nation from enialation from God. Moses certianly knows the commandments, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”, love your neighbor as yourself, and take no revenge. Moses never broke any of these commandments in his obedience to God. That day the Levites attain a special possition as ministers to God for thier part in killing to put down the rebellion.
Please visit Throwing Stones
NAB EXO 32:7
With that, the LORD said to Moses, “Go down at once to your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt, for they have become depraved. They have soon turned aside from the way I pointed out to them, making for themselves a molten calf and worshiping it, sacrificing to it and crying out, ‘This is your God, O Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt!’ I see how stiffnecked this people is,” continued the LORD to Moses. “Let me alone, then, that my wrath may blaze up against them to consume them. Then I will make of you a great nation.”
But Moses implored the LORD, his God, saying, “Why, O LORD, should your wrath blaze up against your own people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with such great power and with so strong a hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent he brought them out, that he might kill them in the mountains and exterminate them from the face of the earth’? Let your blazing wrath die down; relent in punishing your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, and how you swore to them by your own self, saying, ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky; and all this land that I promised, I will give your descendants as their perpetual heritage.’” So the LORD relented in the punishment he had threatened to inflict on his people.
Moses then turned and came down the mountain with the two tablets that were written on both sides, front and back; tablets that were made by God, having inscriptions on them that were engraved by God himself.
NAB DEU 6:4 The great commandment.
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is out God, the LORD alone! Therefore you shall love the LORD, you God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength.NAB LEV 19:18
“Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow country men. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” **NAB EXO 20:13 **
“You shall not kill.” (SIR 6:10)
**NAB EXO 32:17…//…EXO 32:25 **“Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow country men. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” **NAB EXO 20:13 **
“You shall not kill.” (SIR 6:10)
When Moses realized that, to the scornful joy of their foes, Aaron had let the people run wild, he stood at the gate of the camp and cried,** “Whoever is for the Lord, let him come to me!” All the Levites then rallied to him, and he told them, “Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: Put your sword on your hip everyone of you! Now go up and down the camp, from gate to gate, and slay your own kinsmen, your friends and neighbors!” The Levites carried out the command of Moses, and theat day there fell about three thousand of the people. **Then Moses said, "Today you have been dedicated to the LORD, for you were against your own sons and kinsmen, to bring a blessing upon yourselves this day."
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