Killing Muslims = Salvation?

[ni8_shadow]

Ok you all know this is in regards to the Crusades.

Who said “To kill muslims brings you salvation?” Or did anyone say it at all. I know the Pope (Urban?) said something like “to die fighting for the Holy Land is Martydom.” And of course all martyrs get a one way ticket to heaven. But many Protestants quote the Pope saying something more like “kill all the muslims you can and you get to heaven.” This saying is kind of hinted at in Kingdom of Heaven where Balian finds it odd that Templars who raided an innocent Muslim caravan are being hanged since the Pope orderd the killing of all Muslims.

Did one of the Crusader generals preach this?

Any texts or sources would be helpful. thanks

 

[slinky1882]

ni8_shadow:

Ok you all know this is in regards to the Crusades.

Who said “To kill muslims brings you salvation?” Or did anyone say it at all. I know the Pope (Urban?) said something like “to die fighting for the Holy Land is Martydom.” And of course all martyrs get a one way ticket to heaven. But many Protestants quote the Pope saying something more like “kill all the muslims you can and you get to heaven.” This saying is kind of hinted at in Kingdom of Heaven where Balian finds it odd that Templars who raided an Muslim caravan are being hanged since the Pope orderd the of all Muslims.

Did one of the Crusader generals preach this?

Any texts or sources would be helpful. thanks

Hmmm, I couldn’t find anything googling, but I would not be surprised in some Pope said that dying in the defense of the Holy Land would be akin to martyrdom. Please remember that Kingdom of Heaven is a fictional movie loosely based on historic events. And from what I could tell, and please correct me if I am wrong, Balian was usrprised they were being hanged not the reason they were upon explanation. Thanks and God Bless.

 

[ni8_shadow]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I know it is fiction, but of course movies do have tendancy to spread false ideas at times…the movie did have an anti-organized religion message to it for both Christianity and Islam. There are hints to this throughout the movie. And what was up with all the Christian clergy being so weak and selfish? oh well…in todays media what can i expect? Still, it was a great film, i saw it twice!!

Bailian said “So they are being hanged for something that the Pope would ask them to do?” implying the Pope asks the crusaders to kill all muslims they see or something to that effect. And that reminded me of what my friend told me about a Pope asking Crusaders to kill ALL infidels. I remember someone a LONG time ago explaining this in detail but i can not find the post.

I bring this up because protestants ALWAYS bring it up with me.

 

[Axion]

ni8_shadow:

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I know it is fiction, but of course movies do have tendancy to spread false ideas at times…the movie did have an anti-organized religion message to it for both Christianity and Islam. There are hints to this throughout the movie. And what was up with all the Christian clergy being so weak and selfish? oh well…in todays media what can i expect? Still, it was a great film, i saw it twice!!

Bailian said “So they are being hanged for something that the Pope would ask them to do?” implying the Pope asks the crusaders to kill all muslims they see or something to that effect. And that reminded me of what my friend told me about a Pope asking Crusaders to kill ALL infidels. I remember someone a LONG time ago explaining this in detail but i can not find the post.

I bring this up because protestants ALWAYS bring it up with me.

Ask them to give you a legitimate source - otherwise it is likely to be rubbish, so do not discuss it. There is so much rubbish made up about the Church, or passed on in the form of “chinese whispers” that completely alters what was said.

Those who died on Crusade fighting for Christ were promised heavenly reward, but that is VERY different.

 

[Steven_Merten]

I thought it was Pope Innocent who promised soldiers eternal life if they died fighting the Muslims. He did not promise them the 72 virgins in heaven that the Muslims promise thier martyrs get, allong with eternal life, for dying fighting the Christians.

I watched Conquest of the Americas on the History Channel. South America is considered the jewel of the Catholic Church now that Europe and the United States have become so morally corrupt. Two thirds of all Catholics are now in South America. The show indicated that it was pretty much baptism by the sword which converted South America in the first place. A Catholic priest would go in front of Spanish troops and call out to the natives to surrender and be baptized or die. I do not think that the Popes of the time fully approved of the method. Althought they still kept their priests in there baptizing those who surrendered. I do not think any Popes excommunicated any Spanish soildiers, commanders or Kings for baptism by the sword. The Church today would be quite a bit weaker without its two thirds of devout South American Catholics which decended from those who were converted by the sword.

 

[ni8_shadow]

Yeah i read that Popes during the age of exploration forbade sword point conversions…but they didnt exactly have a two way message sidekick like today…so im sure some Popes had no idea what was going on over the ocean. But yeah without those sword point conversions Catholic Christianity might not be what it is today interms of numbers…its a double edged sword…Christ would not have wanted it…but it looks like we needed it!

 

[theologypoetry]

The crusades were a defensive war because the Muslims had taken part of the Christian Byzantine empire. They had taken Spain and were raiding Italy and southern France. If a country became Muslim, the Christian inhabitants were made second class citizens, at best. Read Thomas Madden or Jonathan Riley-Smith, historians of the Crusades. The pope promised a plenary indulgence to those who went to fight. Also the Jesuits did not baptize by the sword in Paraquay. They wanted to convert and sometimes had to come against Europeans conquerors who only wanted booty.

 

[slinky1882]

ni8_shadow:

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I know it is fiction, but of course movies do have tendancy to spread false ideas at times…the movie did have an anti-organized religion message to it for both Christianity and Islam. There are hints to this throughout the movie. And what was up with all the Christian clergy being so weak and selfish? oh well…in todays media what can i expect? Still, it was a great film, i saw it twice!!

Bailian said “So they are being hanged for something that the Pope would ask them to do?” implying the Pope asks the crusaders to kill all muslims they see or something to that effect. And that reminded me of what my friend told me about a Pope asking Crusaders to kill ALL infidels. I remember someone a LONG time ago explaining this in detail but i can not find the post.

I bring this up because protestants ALWAYS bring it up with me.

Actually as far as organized religin went in the movie, Kingdom of Heaven was quite benevolent to the Muslims portrayed. If I remember correctly, although Saladin was one of the more reasonable Islamic leaders and was antagonized by greedy “Christians”, his retribution was swift on taking Jerusalem.

Did anyone else notice the different treatments between the two factions, the Templars and the Hospitallers??? Thanks and God Bless.