killing nonhuman animals

[whitecrayon]

does any reader of this post know of any catholic doctrine or beliefs concerning catholics killing nonhuman animals of any sort? specifically, under what circumstances is it morally approved to kill an animal; and is there any difference between, for example, killing an ant and killing a monkey?

whitecrayon

 

[Swiss_Guy]

IDK, but Jesus ate fish and I think he probably ate other meats as well. IMHO (which doesn’t have much authority) it isn’t ok to kill animals for the heck of it (they are part of God’s creation), but its ok if you kill them for food. And as for ants and flies, etc. I think it’s ok to kill them - there are so many and they are pretty annoying most of the time.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Killing animals is fine, as long as your aren’t causing undue suffering to the creature. For example - I love to fish. When I catch one, I always kill it as quickly and painlessly as possible. If you’re being cruel and torturing it…that’s wrong.

 

[kmuestwin]

IDK, but Jesus ate fish and I think he probably ate other meats as well. IMHO (which doesn’t have much authority) it isn’t ok to kill animals for the heck of it (they are part of God’s creation), but its ok if you kill them for food. And as for ants and flies, etc. I think it’s ok to kill them - there are so many and they are pretty annoying most of the time.

Jesus didn’t kill those fish. He saved them from drowning and then they died from exhaustion.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

IDK, but Jesus ate fish and I think he probably ate other meats as well. IMHO (which doesn’t have much authority) it isn’t ok to kill animals for the heck of it (they are part of God’s creation), but its ok if you kill them for food. And as for ants and flies, etc. I think it’s ok to kill them - there are so many and they are pretty annoying most of the time.

Probably?

He took part in Passover. At that time He ate lamb, at the very least.

God gave us dominion over the earth, including animals.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Probably?

He took part in Passover. At that time He ate lamb, at the very least.

God gave us dominion over the earth, including animals.

If you believe that we have a moral obligation to take proper care of our bodies, then there is plenty of evidence to suggest that eating animals is not the best thing to do for your body, if plant based protein is available as an alternative, particularly with our current food industry. So… a moral argument could be made. I would also suggest that it is not necessary to kill animals for fur anymore, with modern fabrics and insulators. There is something which seems wrong about unnecessarily killing of any creature to me.

But my bias is that I have probably become overly sensitive on the topic, because of choices I made when I was younger to be a warrior. These days, I am on another path.

 

[whitecrayon]

thanks for the replies. i honestly do not know about any catholic doctrines or thoughts on the matter, so i thought i’d ask.

it seems natural to assume, in my opinion, that god wants us to kill mercifully and to keep killing to a minimum, including even with tiny creatures like ants and spiders, but that’s just my intuition.

whitecrayon

 

[thistle]

thanks for the replies. i honestly do not know about any catholic doctrines or thoughts on the matter, so i thought i’d ask.

it seems natural to assume, in my opinion, that god wants us to kill mercifully and to keep killing to a minimum, including even with tiny creatures like ants and spiders, but that’s just my intuition.

whitecrayon

This is the official Church teaching about animals:

CCC 2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

CCC 2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

 

[Giordano_Bruno]

Killing animals is fine, as long as your aren’t causing undue suffering to the creature. For example - I love to fish. When I catch one, I always kill it as quickly and painlessly as possible. If you’re being cruel and torturing it…that’s wrong.

you are so wrong… I dont even know where to begin.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

If you believe that we have a moral obligation to take proper care of our bodies, then there is plenty of evidence to suggest that eating animals is not the best thing to do for your body, if plant based protein is available as an alternative, particularly with our current food industry. So… a moral argument could be made. I would also suggest that it is not necessary to kill animals for fur anymore, with modern fabrics and insulators. There is something which seems wrong about unnecessarily killing of any creature to me.

But my bias is that I have probably become overly sensitive on the topic, because of choices I made when I was younger to be a warrior. These days, I am on another path.

I don’t buy a single word of that.

Dominion over the earth. That is what God gave us. No one’s stopping you from being a vegan or anything you want. But there’s absolutely NO moral high ground in that stance.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I don’t buy a single word of that.

Dominion over the earth. That is what God gave us. No one’s stopping you from being a vegan or anything you want. But there’s absolutely NO moral high ground in that stance.

I agree with this. God even directed the killing and consumption of animals. He limited certain animals but later removed that restriction in a vision to St. Peter. You also can’t forget that he demanded animal sacrifice as part of religious ceremony for atonement of sins.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

you are so wrong… I dont even know where to begin.

I suppose you could try to phrase your objection in a well thought out manner that leads to healthy, informative, and charitable debate on the topic, rather than sending me presumptuous and rather insulting private messages. I’d be MORE than happy to discuss this with you in a civilized and intelligent way.

 

[karoleck]

does any reader of this post know of any catholic doctrine or beliefs concerning catholics killing nonhuman animals of any sort? specifically, under what circumstances is it morally approved to kill an animal; and is there any difference between, for example, killing an ant and killing a monkey?

whitecrayon

May I point out to you that you are using a very poor choice of words in your question.We humans are persons,in other words we have a human body and a human soul(which will live forever) An Animal is a creature that only has an animal spirit which animates it’s body;an animal only has an earthly life.Since they only live here and now the Church demands that we treat animals with kindness and protect them from needless suffering.Naturally an insect such as a fly or an ant has an even lower form of life;normally us humans do not eat these things.

Whilst I share your concern about the treatment of God’s created creatures be they animals,reptiles,mammals,insects or even plant life.I personally feel that a more urgent concern is our mistreatment of humans.Here is a current
issue that you might be interested in,here is the link–

youtube.com/watch?v=y3WHP7Q5dp8&feature=related

 

[whitecrayon]

dear karoleck

thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. i certainly agree with the idea that human beings do indeed represent a different sort of beast on earth, in that we can emote, communicate, think, etc so vastly more complexly than the other creatures of earth. however, contemporary scientists all agree that *homo sapiens *is an animal like all the others. we share about 98% of the genome of the chimpanzees, for instance, and we share the same basic physiological make-up with other mammals in general. while we certainly are vastly different, as you noted, we certainly are vastly the same as well.

your truly
whitecrayon

 

[severus68]

May I point out to you that you are using a very poor choice of words in your question.We humans are persons,in other words we have a human body and a human soul(which will live forever) An Animal is a creature that only has an animal spirit which animates it’s body;an animal only has an earthly life.Since they only live here and now the Church demands that we treat animals with kindness and protect them from needless suffering.Naturally an insect such as a fly or an ant has an even lower form of life;normally us humans do not eat these things.

Whilst I share your concern about the treatment of God’s created creatures be they animals,reptiles,mammals,insects or even plant life.I personally feel that a more urgent concern is our mistreatment of humans.Here is a current
issue that you might be interested in,here is the link–

youtube.com/watch?v=y3WHP7Q5dp8&feature=related

Firstly, plants are not creatures of God while they are part of God’s creation.

Secondly, with respect, it is possible to care about humans and animals too and at the same time. There were Saints who did both.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Probably?

He took part in Passover. At that time He ate lamb, at the very least.

God gave us dominion over the earth, including animals.

I was probably tired when I wrote that and wasn’t thinking.

Duh.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Catholic90]

If you believe that we have a moral obligation to take proper care of our bodies, then there is plenty of evidence to suggest that eating animals is not the best thing to do for your body, if plant based protein is available as an alternative, particularly with our current food industry. So… a moral argument could be made. I would also suggest that it is not necessary to kill animals for fur anymore, with modern fabrics and insulators. There is something which seems wrong about unnecessarily killing of any creature to me.

But my bias is that I have probably become overly sensitive on the topic, because of choices I made when I was younger to be a warrior. These days, I am on another path.

People can choose to not consume animals if they wish and be vegan or vegetarian, but that in no way makes them more moral or a better Catholic. It is just a dietary/lifestyle choice.

There is something which seems wrong about unnecessarily killing of any creature to me.

What might be unnecessary to you might be necessary to someone else. I found it very necessary to dispatch several mice found in my home. My neighbor hunts deer. It is his stress reliever, and the deer provides food for his family. My father shoots coyotes and raccoons that carry disease and cause destruction on his farm. Etc.

God gave us dominion.

 

[Newbie2]

If you believe that we have a moral obligation to take proper care of our bodies, then there is plenty of evidence to suggest that eating animals is not the best thing to do for your body, if plant based protein is available as an alternative, particularly with our current food industry. So… a moral argument could be made. I would also suggest that it is not necessary to kill animals for fur anymore, with modern fabrics and insulators. There is something which seems wrong about unnecessarily killing of any creature to me.

But my bias is that I have probably become overly sensitive on the topic, because of choices I made when I was younger to be a warrior. These days, I am on another path.

May I point out to you that you are using a very poor choice of words in your question.We humans are persons,in other words we have a human body and a human soul(which will live forever) An Animal is a creature that only has an animal spirit which animates it’s body;an animal only has an earthly life.Since they only live here and now the Church demands that we treat animals with kindness and protect them from needless suffering.Naturally an insect such as a fly or an ant has an even lower form of life;normally us humans do not eat these things.

Whilst I share your concern about the treatment of God’s created creatures be they animals,reptiles,mammals,insects or even plant life.I personally feel that a more urgent concern is our mistreatment of humans.Here is a current
issue that you might be interested in,here is the link–

youtube.com/watch?v=y3WHP7Q5dp8&feature=related

My Master’s thesis deals in part with this very subject. A few thoughts:

1. The term “non-human animals” has been, I believe, co-opted by Animal rights advocates in order to muddy the distinction between humans and animals. This is particularly evident in the writings of Peter Singer, who advanced the “speciest” argument.

For those unfamiliar with this argument, in brief it is the notion that in exercising any sort of dominion over other species, we humans are guilty of “speciesm”, defined by Singer et al as being very similar to racism.

Theologically, right from the start we recognize that human beings and animals are two quite distinct beings. Speciest arguments have a different starting point.

1. “Killing of animals”, has a very general term. There is a wide range of moral scenarios that require different moral responses on the part of a Catholic Christian. For example, American Indians of the past hunted buffalo and other creatures and used every bit of their bodies for food, clothing, shelter, tools, etc. The argument can be made that they needed to use the animals to survive. Catholic theology would seem to support such treatment as animals as morally acceptable.

On the other hand, Joe Blow gets drunk and shoots his neighbor’s dog for no good reason. This would seem to be an obvious case where such an action is morally unacceptable.

1. “Having Dominion” would seem to be inclusive of the notion of Animal welfare, or in theological terms, proper stewardship of the animals in our (human) care. There are many issues on which the Church has been silent, particularly in modern day society where we do not necessarily depend on animals for survival. Issues such as Production Farming, medical and pharmacological research, hunting/fishing, etc. have not been directly addressed by the
   Church.

 

[whitecrayon]

there is an excellent book by a deep-thinking catholic author, matthew scully, on the subject of humanity’s god-given dominion over the other animals. it is only a few years old, and it is titled, aptly, dominion. any reader of this thread can order it used online for (at the time of this writing) exactly one dollar plus four dollars for shipping, through the wonderful purveyors of books at www.amazon.com.

whitecrayon

 

[Rock_Happy]

I don’t buy a single word of that.

Dominion over the earth. That is what God gave us. No one’s stopping you from being a vegan or anything you want. But there’s absolutely NO moral high ground in that stance.

Your problem not mine. Enjoy your diseases.

I happen to believe that taking care of my body is a moral act. You disagree. Assert your dominion at will. I happen to believe that taking care of others is also a moral act.

If you are overweight, please note that fat is metabolically active. It produces nasty hormones and chemicals. Not inert as previously believed. Enjoy your type two diabetes, high blood pressure, and inflammatory ailments. Oh… if your BMI is 25 or higher, you nearly double your risk of dementia in old age, BMI of 30+… fourfold. If you like your meat, please keep in mind that you are consuming low doses of antibiotics, unless you are buying the $20+/lb grass fed organic stuff. Remember with each bite that Omega 6 lipids in the cellular membrane causes inflammation at the cellular level during normal metabolic processes. Enjoy your inflammatory diseases, such as arthritis, coronary disease, and Alzheimer’s.

In 1958, there were 18 cases of prostate cancer in Japan. When the Nazis occupied Norway and took all the animal protein, the cancer and coronary incident rates plummeted for the Norwegians. I could go on and on… the evidence is copious.

I hope that none of this is true about you, and that you maintain a healthy body weight, and eat a healthy diet.

On the other hand, i had a meal with a professor of medicine just recently. he is slim and healthy, but he ordered a lot of rich french food. “Howard what are you eating?” “Well if you play the odds, we are going to die of cancer or of heart disease. I am choosing heart disease.” He was kidding of course, but it is true that we should enjoy life.

Is it a moral imperative for a spouse to stay healthy for a spouse, a parent to stay healthy to care for a child, a child to stay healthy to care for a parent? Is it a moral imperative not to be a burden on the healthcare system which is nearly broken? Is it a moral imperative to take care of our bodies made in the image of God?