Kinda thinking about becoming Episcopal

[nicolakirwan]

I think that moving from Catholicism to the Episcopal Church is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I, for a long time, prepared to enter into the Episcopal priesthood but ultimately had to leave. The TEC is a classic example of an apostate church, meaning the fundamental denial of Christ’s singular Lordship and bodily resurrection. There are conservative Anglican parishes in the US and Anglicanism in the global south is holding on; but in some ways it can feel like they are reliving the fissuring of the Reformation.

 

[Augusta1990]

I think that moving from Catholicism to the Episcopal Church is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I, for a long time, prepared to enter into the Episcopal priesthood but ultimately had to leave. The TEC is a classic example of an apostate church, meaning the fundamental denial of Christ’s singular Lordship and bodily resurrection. There are conservative Anglican parishes in the US and Anglicanism in the global south is holding on; but in some ways it can feel like they are reliving the fissuring of the Reformation.

I didn’t want to put it so harshly, but I agree with this.

 

[nicolakirwan]

I didn’t want to put it so harshly, but I agree with this.

I didn’t mean to be harsh. Sorry to any Episcopalians out there. I had and have heaps of affection for the Anglican tradition; but I was there and had to leave because of the apostasy. So, I share from my experience.

 

[Augusta1990]

I didn’t mean to be harsh. Sorry to any Episcopalians out there. I had and have heaps of affection for the Anglican tradition; but I was there and had to leave because of the apostasy. So, I share from my experience.

Haha, I wasn’t trying to call you out on the harshness… just explaining why I hadn’t said the same thing in my posts. I’ve had a similar experience, for what it’s worth.

 

[rafarose]

Dear OVerisimilitude ,

I just wanted to say a few things regarding the infallibility of the pope, as it currently bothers some or even many Christians.
“Infallibility” comes from Latin meaning ‘not to deceive’ or simply meaning to know truth with certainty. Infallible does not and will never mean that the pope is perfect. It means that the pope and the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

We are talking about the same Holy Spirit that guided all the apostles/disciples/authors of the Bible. This does not mean that the Bible is written by perfect men. On the contrary , the Bible is written by imperfect men guided by the only and only perfect Holy Spirit. The pope today is the successor Peter, our first pope. This is not to say that our pope is perfect but rather it is the same Holy Spirit which guided Peter 2000 years ago. Just as we take the Bible to be legit, we take the Catholic Church and pope’s teaching legit as well. Just as we take the teachings of Peter and the rest to be truths (with respect to Christianity) We take our pope’s teaching to be that as well. This is because we, sinners, imperfect, are guided by a perfect Holy Spirit.

Regarding Mary.
We give great honour to Mary because she is the Mother of God. We are talking about a woman who has carried God himself, in flesh, in her womb. How are we not to honour her? We do not worship Mary. You see many Catholics praying to Mary, not because we worship her, and not because she will redeem us, but rather to HELP us by praying for us. Have you read the story about the wedding in Cana?

Well if you have not, basically what happens is that Mary and Jesus go to a wedding. The wine finishes. Mary asks Jesus to perform a miracle, Jesus then replies “woman my hour has not yet come” meaning that Jesus did not intend to perform his first miracle. What happens next? Well, Jesus then actually performs the miracle. This means Virgin Mary can ask Jesus, and if it is His Will, he will give to us. Why? Because she is simply His mother. And if you ask Mary for help, you are simply asking her to talk to Jesus and if Jesus sees it fit, he will do it

Regarding ordaining female priests

I completely understand your point, this is something I had to deal with as well. This ritual or to say tradition has more to do with the role of the Church. The church is the bride and Christ is the husband. This tradition is closely related as to why modern day priests choose celibacy over marriage. Peter our first pope was married. To remain celibate, is a CHOICE priest have been making for a really long time.
Anyways, I do not find a sound reason for you to leave the Christ’s original Church for this.

To sum off, the Catholic Church has been standing strong for 2000 years. Yes, the Church is both sinful and graced but it does not mean that it is not guided by the Holy Spirit. This is the same church Jesus formed, wanted and still wants, united in His love. Why are there so many divisions in the protestant churches? The answer, I am not sure, but it has alot to do with our church’s leadership and more with Christ’s will.

I really hope you choose our Mother Church. Plus the sacraments are pretty cool.

God bless you

 

[empantarhei]

Dear OVerisimilitude ,

I just wanted to say a few things regarding the infallibility of the pope, as it currently bothers some or even many Christians.
“Infallibility” comes from Latin meaning ‘not to deceive’ or simply meaning to know truth with certainty. Infallible does not and will never mean that the pope is perfect. It means that the pope and the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

We are talking about the same Holy Spirit that guided all the apostles/disciples/authors of the Bible. This does not mean that the Bible is written by perfect men. On the contrary , the Bible is written by imperfect men guided by the only and only perfect Holy Spirit. The pope today is the successor Peter, our first pope. This is not to say that our pope is perfect but rather it is the same Holy Spirit which guided Peter 2000 years ago. Just as we take the Bible to be legit, we take the Catholic Church and pope’s teaching legit as well. Just as we take the teachings of Peter and the rest to be truths (with respect to Christianity) We take our pope’s teaching to be that as well. This is because we, sinners, imperfect, are guided by a perfect Holy Spirit.

Regarding Mary.
We give great honour to Mary because she is the Mother of God. We are talking about a woman who has carried God himself, in flesh, in her womb. How are we not to honour her? We do not worship Mary. You see many Catholics praying to Mary, not because we worship her, and not because she will redeem us, but rather to HELP us by praying for us. Have you read the story about the wedding in Cana?

Well if you have not, basically what happens is that Mary and Jesus go to a wedding. The wine finishes. Mary asks Jesus to perform a miracle, Jesus then replies “woman my hour has not yet come” meaning that Jesus did not intend to perform his first miracle. What happens next? Well, Jesus then actually performs the miracle. This means Virgin Mary can ask Jesus, and if it is His Will, he will give to us. Why? Because she is simply His mother. And if you ask Mary for help, you are simply asking her to talk to Jesus and if Jesus sees it fit, he will do it

Regarding ordaining female priests

I completely understand your point, this is something I had to deal with as well. This ritual or to say tradition has more to do with the role of the Church. The church is the bride and Christ is the husband. This tradition is closely related as to why modern day priests choose celibacy over marriage. Peter our first pope was married. To remain celibate, is a CHOICE priest have been making for a really long time.
Anyways, I do not find a sound reason for you to leave the Christ’s original Church for this.

To sum off, the Catholic Church has been standing strong for 2000 years. Yes, the Church is both sinful and graced but it does not mean that it is not guided by the Holy Spirit. This is the same church Jesus formed, wanted and still wants, united in His love. Why are there so many divisions in the protestant churches? The answer, I am not sure, but it has alot to do with our church’s leadership and more with Christ’s will.

I really hope you choose our Mother Church. Plus the sacraments are pretty cool.

God bless you

You know, I am but an observer; these are things I knew, but you wrote it so well. Thank you so very, very much.

 

[truthseeker32]

…attending both mass and services at an Episcopal church with my Episcopalian fiancee.

I won’t accuse the OP of anything, but I would encourage him to consider how much weight this factor has on his current struggle. I think the reason I didn’t leave the Mormon faith sooner was because I was temple marriage-bound. Perhaps it was God’s grace that kept the temple marriage from happening. I also hope it isn’t Boston College (or Barely Catholic as some of us like to call it) itself that is causing doubts. I recommend reading the best philosophy and apologetics the Church has to offer on the issues with which you are concerned.

 

[Izdaari]

I do not agree with the opinion some have expressed that the Episcopal Church is apostate. Some in it are, including some bishops, but TEC itself has not abandoned any essential Christian doctrine. If it does, I may have to rethink my own membership: I may be a liberal Christian, but I am an orthodox one.

 

[nicolakirwan]

I do not agree with the opinion some have expressed that the Episcopal Church is apostate. Some in it are, including some bishops, but TEC itself has not abandoned any essential Christian doctrine. If it does, I may have to rethink my own membership: I may be a liberal Christian, but I am an orthodox one.

Well, Presiding Biship Schori holds a number of heretical beliefs and she was elected with the support of a solid majority of TEC Bishops. The Book of Common Prayer remains orthodox, but it is a shame that most TEC leaders have not remained faithful to it.

I was very sad to leave.

 

[aidanbradypop]

There was a time after my conversion that I actually became interested in the Episcopal Church. My family is a mix of Baptist and Anglican (not Episcopalian lol). I actually started going to an Episcopal Church and it was very nice. The pastor was very welcoming and the parish was small and friendly. The entire time I went there (probably 5 to 6 weeks) I felt as if I was “cheating” on myself. I eventually stopped going. I went to confession and Father helped guide me back in the right direction.

It would be much easier if I did convert to Anglican or the Episcopalian Church. My family would be much more accepting of me if I did so. But you see, my struggle with them due to my faith in Christ’s Church is not supposed to be easy. Was the journey to the cross easy for Christ? Was being nailed on the cross for my sins easy for Christ? Of course not. Our faith journey is not easy nor should it be. If it is “easy” then I pray one dives more into the faith.

I pray that the Holy Spirit guide you on your journey. Allow God’s will for you to be the guide rather than your own. Peace be with you!

 

[andrewstx]

I do not agree with the opinion some have expressed that the Episcopal Church is apostate. Some in it are, including some bishops, but TEC itself has not abandoned any essential Christian doctrine. If it does, I may have to rethink my own membership: I may be a liberal Christian, but I am an orthodox one.

I am an ex-Episcopalian who still has emotional ties to the Episcopal church. Like Izzy I am theologically orthodox, but politically liberal.

But apostate is a very general description. Could you be a little more specific?

 

[nicolakirwan]

I am an ex-Episcopalian who still has emotional ties to the Episcopal church. Like Izzy I am theologically orthodox, but politically liberal.

But apostate is a very general description. Could you be a little more specific?

I’m not sure if you’re asking me or Izzy, but since I put the word out there, I’ll answer.

Apostate in that the core doctrines of the Christian faith are changed or thrown out all together. For example, Schori rejects the idea “that we can be saved as individuals, that any of us alone can be in right relationship with God.” christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/julyweb-only/128-31.0.html

Her defense of her remarks can be found here: anglicansunited.com/?p=3942

A more straightforward overview of heretical beliefs espoused by Schori can be found here: standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/1503

I don’t mean to personally attack her, but I don’t know any other way to say it.

Also, while I’m not sure what being politically liberal refers to exactly, the political issues can’t change Church teaching. We are witnesses to the world of the truth.

 

[Izdaari]

I’m not sure if you’re asking me or Izzy, but since I put the word out there, I’ll answer.

Apostate in that the core doctrines of the Christian faith are changed or thrown out all together. For example, Schori rejects the idea “that we can be saved as individuals, that any of us alone can be in right relationship with God.” christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/julyweb-only/128-31.0.html

Her defense of her remarks can be found here: anglicansunited.com/?p=3942

A more straightforward overview of heretical beliefs espoused by Schori can be found here: standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/1503

I don’t mean to personally attack her, but I don’t know any other way to say it.

Also, while I’m not sure what being politically liberal refers to exactly, the political issues can’t change Church teaching. We are witnesses to the world of the truth.

However, Schori is not the Episcopal pope. Her opinions are just her opinions, not church doctrine.

 

[nicolakirwan]

However, Schori is not the Episcopal pope. Her opinions are just her opinions, not church doctrine.

Individual Episcopalians can believe as they will. The Presiding Bishop does, however, have to have the support of the majority of the other bishops in TEC. And both Schori and the bishops who elected her represent TEC to the broader Anglican Communion and to the world, if not individual believers. They’re also the ones approving new priests and shepherding congregations. So what she believes will be some kind of real reflection of what things look like on the ground.

But, I stated why I left, not why I think anyone else must leave.

 

[andrewstx]

I have noticed in another thread that Izzy is a libertarian, I am not I am a moderate which is now considered liberal.

With apologies to Izzy since I do not really understand Libertarians, but it seems to me that libertarian is the opposite of liberal.

I cannot afford to be libertarian since I had a bad stroke and can no longer work or even drive.

 

[Izdaari]

I have noticed in another thread that Izzy is a libertarian, I am not I am a moderate which is now considered liberal.

With apologies to Izzy since I do not really understand Libertarians, but it seems to me that libertarian is the opposite of liberal.

I cannot afford to be libertarian since I had a bad stroke and can no longer work or even drive.

I am not a political liberal, but a libertarian and Libertarian (capitalization denoting a Libertarian Party member, which I am and have been since 1972, the first year they were on the ballot and the first year I could vote). Though if we go back a couple centuries, “classical liberal” describes me pretty well. I.e., I am a liberal like John Stuart Mill, not like Nancy Pelosi.

When I said I might be considered “liberal but orthodox” I was referring to theological liberalism.

 

[Izdaari]

Individual Episcopalians can believe as they will. The Presiding Bishop does, however, have to have the support of the majority of the other bishops in TEC. And both Schori and the bishops who elected her represent TEC to the broader Anglican Communion and to the world, if not individual believers. They’re also the ones approving new priests and shepherding congregations. So what she believes will be some kind of real reflection of what things look like on the ground.

But, I stated why I left, not why I think anyone else must leave.

Indeed. I will hope our next Presiding Bishop is more orthodox, though similarly in favor of tolerance and diversity.