Kirk Cameron--not a wimp

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I watched most of the Kirk Cameron/Ray Comfort debate with two atheists today. Like Mark Shea said, I thought it was going to be a bloodbath. QUITE the contrary–the fundamentalists started off strong and the atheists were pathetic. However, Kirk and Ray lost a lot of steam by breaking one of the main ground rules–arguing from scripture when they said they could prove God’s existence without it–and utterly blowing a chance to obliterate the atheists’ weak rebuttals by using it as “witnessing time.”

Anyway, I took a look at the Way of the Master site they run and watched a couple of “witnessing videos.” Their system is well-polished and I think by putting people on the defensive it goes really far. I don’t recommend this method, but at least on some people, it seems to work.

One video in particular left me stunned: Cameron went up to a bunch of Hispanic gangbangers and FEARLESSLY presented the bare bones Gospel. (Obligatory disclaimer–there isn’t a snowball’s chance in H.E. Double Hockey Stick Land that I would ever leave the Barque of Peter). These are guys I would walk around TOWN to avoid. But he got in their faces with love and respect. It was truly humbling for me, a guy who likes to smirk at the unwashed Protestants from high on my pillar.

Speaking very generally here, it seems that Catholicism can fend off any attack very easily. As we see on this site and elsewhere, anti-Catholic attacks wind up hurting the brains of Catholicism’s foes. On the other hand, evangelicals are phenomenal about, well, evangelizing. It seems like a demonic joke–those who “possess” the fullness of the truth don’t seem to care to share it, and those who don’t are the most aggressive about spreading their errors. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

I question Cameron’s methods, but man, I gotta admire his courage…
 
Oh I never once thought he was a wimp, after all I was going to marry him, of course that was when I was 13 and he was on growing pains.
 
I agree. Props where props are due.

As a former Evangelical I understand some of the dynamic that motivates people like Kirk and Ray (not saying I know their hearts, though). As an Evangelical I was constantly told it was my duty to witness to everyone I possibly could because God would hold me personally responsible for their salvation. Needless to say, no one would sit next to me on a public bus! LOL!

Catholics, even ones who are strong in their faith and wish to see everyone within the arms of the Church, aren’t laboring under the threat of personal judgment if they can’t win people over. We believe in proposing, not imposing the Gospel.

This is not to say that holy zeal and boldness isn’t a part of Catholicism–it is. But the motivation is often quite different from our Evangelical brethren. Although, there certainly are Evangelicals motivated purely by love of God and neighbor. I just didn’t meet many when I was one of them. 😉
 
There’s a thread around here called something like, “Why are most Catholics passive about Evangelization?” that you might like to check out. It addresses some of the themes you seem to be touching on here- i.e. the disparity of those who possess the fullness of the Truth not using the same evangelization tactics some Protestants do.

Cheers,
Cari
 
Della said:
Catholics, even ones who are strong in their faith and wish to see everyone within the arms of the Church, aren’t laboring under the threat of personal judgment if they can’t win people over. We believe in proposing, not imposing the Gospel.

😉
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Sometimes Catholics are raised or grow up in an area were the surrounding population is almost 100% Catholic. Most feel spreading the gospel at this level is moot. In Mexico for example, it is above 90% Catholic, so most folks dont know of such a thing as Protestant till much later, if ever at all.

In Christ!
 
Im protastant and have never heard someone say to me I had to witness or Id be held responsible.

I always took it as simply part of the great commision that one doenst want to keep the good news to themselves.

If you dont “do” anything when you could have that will be judged not just to do with witnessing. I guess one could say works are encouraged 😉 We are to be the hands and feet.

Instead of asking God why havent You done this, He asks us, why havent we done it for Him.

Kirk is a keener and to those he speaks to is great. Some of us need that approach. Others need as many approaches as can be thought of. Thus a “style” for the different “styles/types” of people out there.

PS about the 90% Catholic in Mexico. I know my nephew went to Tiajunia and built houses, and they are Baptist. Id seriously have to ask about 90%, cant be practicing, those are high numbers. ? ?
 
Kitty_Chan said:
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PS about the 90% Catholic in Mexico. I know my nephew went to Tiajunia and built houses, and they are Baptist. Id seriously have to ask about 90%, cant be practicing, those are high numbers. ? ?
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Tijuana???

Go To Mexico City or Gaudalajara, it may take a whole week driving around finding one Baptist Church.

BTW, I am with you on Kirk!

In Christ!
 
montanaman said:
It seems like a demonic joke–those who “possess” the fullness of the truth don’t seem to care to share it, and those who don’t are the most aggressive about spreading their errors.
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Oh man.

I read the above and see you are so close to the truth here, but then you miss the whole reason this is in the end.

On the edge of truly seeing the problem, but then you slipped back into the inevitable sense of superiority, IMV.

…
 
Cameron and Comfort do not know anything about biological evolution…
 
Yeah that’s their weakness, even if Cameran/Comfort came on with the best “William Lane Craig arguments” their denial of evolution and promotion of creationism is a big weakness in their approach. Although maybe the “Rational Responders” don’t know enough about evolution to respond, I don’t know. 😃 Is this gonna be available as a MP3 or video download somewhere?

Phil P
 
auhsoj88 said:
Tijuana???

Go To Mexico City or Gaudalajara, it may take a whole week driving around finding one Baptist Church.

BTW, I am with you on Kirk!

In Christ!
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to be clear a Baptist group from Canada went to Tijuana to help the church there. Now Id have to ask him what church it was I can remember, but I cant see it was a Catholic. But that would have been fantastic if it was.
 
I’ve read a lot of stories about Catholics who were bold in evangelizing to the point of martyrdom. I don’t think boldness is an exclusive trait of evangelical Protestants only.
 
(just FYI—There are a lot of non-denom and evangelical churches (and others) out of San Diego crossing the border each weekend and doing a lot of good work in Tijuana.

This may come out wrong, but is not meant in a bad way–
It is an easy way to do some good and needed work while not being far from your own bed.

The overwhelming majority of those in need were raised Catholic. I’m sure there is a bit of off-kilter evangelizing going on about supposed mistakes and wrong teachings of the RCC, but overall they are there mostly to work.

There is, of course, a large Catholic presence doing good work there every day of the year. Tijuana has a ton of good Catholics, many great priests and a well-regarded Bishop. When Cardinal Ratzinger was elected Pope, bells rang throughout the city and Tijuana’s seminarians cheered)
 
Peleus said:
(just FYI—There are a lot of non-denom and evangelical churches (and others) out of San Diego crossing the border each weekend and doing a lot of good work in Tijuana.

This may come out wrong, but is not meant in a bad way–
It is an easy way to do some good and needed work while not being far from your own bed.

The overwhelming majority of those in need were raised Catholic. I’m sure there is a bit of off-kilter evangelizing going on about supposed mistakes and wrong teachings of the RCC, but overall they are there mostly to work.

There is, of course, a large Catholic presence doing good work there every day of the year. Tijuana has a ton of good Catholics, many great priests and a well-regarded Bishop. When Cardinal Ratzinger was elected Pope, bells rang throughout the city and Tijuana’s seminarians cheered)
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My church sends mission teams to Mexico all the time to build homes for the Catholic poor down there.

…
 
Atemi said:
My church sends mission teams to Mexico all the time to build homes for the Catholic poor down there.

…
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The poor will always be with us and we are called in Christian love to help them. Many people from all walks of life and of varied Christian traditions do their part to help whenever and wherever they can. Such efforts are admirable.
 
Peleus said:
(just FYI—There are a lot of non-denom and evangelical churches (and others) out of San Diego crossing the border each weekend and doing a lot of good work in Tijuana.

This may come out wrong, but is not meant in a bad way–
It is an easy way to do some good and needed work while not being far from your own bed.

The overwhelming majority of those in need were raised Catholic. I’m sure there is a bit of off-kilter evangelizing going on about supposed mistakes and wrong teachings of the RCC, but overall they are there mostly to work.

There is, of course, a large Catholic presence doing good work there every day of the year. Tijuana has a ton of good Catholics, many great priests and a well-regarded Bishop. When Cardinal Ratzinger was elected Pope, bells rang throughout the city and Tijuana’s seminarians cheered)
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Thats good news, I cant see why they cant all work together to help those there. Its been awhile since Ive been, Nogalas I was at a few times, its heartwrenching to go. I remember 3 “grandmas” with polio? perhaps their legs were bad and each had a baby. 2 were just sitting and the babies were laying there. The 3rd touched me as she was playing with the baby. (I did pass her some money) What with the other kids selling gum which I understand is given free to them to sell by the govt (dont know if thats true) but just that part looks like a handful.

We dont need to argue whos right while the poor suffer watching us. Im happy things are going and why is it wrong to do work in your backyard. Missions dont have to be across the world 🙂

oh and ps Kirk is cute like a bugs ear . . . .😃
 
Kirk Cameron and Ray Somethin’ or 'Nother… come ON people. If you’re gonna go down, don’t make ALL Christians look unintelligent. There are so many better Christian apologists out there. Cameron might not be a wimp, but he and so many other evangelicals like him definitely aren’t equipped for debate, unless they’re going up against some apathetic guy on the street who really doesn’t care one way or another. Who didn’t see this coming? Their arguments turned into a sermon.
Have you lied? LIAR!!
Have you ever stolen? THIEF!!!
I can’t stand it. Obviously these guys don’t believe in FORGIVENESS.
 
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