Kirk Cameron--not a wimp

[ribozyme]

I would like to know what the atheists thought about all this. Are there any on this forum?

I would also like to know if atheists have any thoughts on where they went wrong in the dialouge.

Thought about what? But I haven’t delved into Kirk Cameron’s presentation yet.

 

[m134e5]

Their whole method is built around God’s forgiveness, so you could not make that claim if you paid better attention to it before commenting.

By the way, one cannot see the need for forgiveness if they do not have any sense of wrongdoing or guilt deserving everlasting punsihment.

What is your religious background? Some people never see that the fundamentalist evangelization techniques are very cruel. Kirk Cameron’s show is the worst example I’ve seen yet. Telling people they better convert or they are going to hell isn’t going to win them over. It will make people run far away from Christianity and organized religion in general. People should repent of their sins out of love for God- not simply out of fear. When you try to scare them into repentance, it tends to lead to despair or apathy towards religion rather than conversion.

 

[Hellisreal]

Thought about what? But I haven’t delved into Kirk Cameron’s presentation yet.

Hello ribozyme!

I was curious if you do watch it if you could illustrate for people where he took major wrong turns in his approach.

I saw enough to make my own conclusions but hearing from you would be excellent.

Also, it seems you have been on the forum long enough to tell us if you think he was any better than posters here you have seen dialouge on the topic.

I personally thought he did poorly.

 

[ribozyme]

Hello ribozyme!

I was curious if you do watch it if you could illustrate for people where he took major wrong turns in his approach.

I saw enough to make my own conclusions but hearing from you would be excellent.

Also, it seems you have been on the forum long enough to tell us if you think he was any better than posters here you have seen dialouge on the topic.

I personally thought he did poorly.

I remember that the Rational Responders Squad made a claim about the “third law of thermodynamics” that was incorrect; the third law is a definition: a pure crystalline substance at 0 degrees kelvin (i.e. absolute zero) has an entropy of zero. Instead he says it is a law that states matter and energy cannot be created and destroyed.

Although I count myself as an atheist currently, I am not fond of the “Jesus didn’t exist argument”.

I must add the Cameron and Comfort’s evidence against evolution such as those chimeric animals is flawed. Such species would not be expected to interbreed because they are reproductively incompatible and are rather bifurcated from their common ancestor (such as a bull (a mammal) and a frog (an amphibian)). It would be evidence against evolution.

 

[Hellisreal]

I remember that the Rational Responders Squad made a claim about the “third law of thermodynamics” that was incorrect; the third law is a definition: a pure crystalline substance at 0 degrees kelvin (i.e. absolute zero) has an entropy of zero. Instead he says it is a law that states matter and energy cannot be created and destroyed.

Although I count myself as an atheist currently, I am not fond of the “Jesus didn’t exist argument”.

I must add the Cameron and Comfort’s evidence against evolution such as those chimeric animals is flawed. Such species would not be expected to interbreed because they are reproductively incompatible and are rather bifurcated from their common ancestor (such as a bull (a mammal) and a frog (an amphibian)). It would be evidence against evolution.

Thank you for answering me Ribozyme. I find Atheists to be very very intelligent (the ones I know personally and now you here too!

So glad to meet you!

 

[NPS]

btw, MM, LOL, here is the tough neighborhood Kirk Cameron went into to find his “gang member” to witness to…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(lol—that’s not near the spot in the video, that is the spot in the video)

…where he actually PAID THE GUY at least twenty bucks to listen to him.

(watch the video again–first thing he does is give him money and then he talks about giving the guy twenty bucks at the beginning and then pays him at the end)

Having just finished A.J. Cronin’s Keys of the Kingdom I am reminded of “rice christians” and shake my head at the superficiality of those “witnessing” videos. Quickie emotional payoffs and even financial ones. Heck, I’d listen to Kirk for eight minutes for twenty bucks. I’d sit with him at Starbucks over a Caffe Latte and a blueberry scone for fifty.

Cameron is a good man, but…these are some of the same kinds of people who openly question whether Catholics are christians???:whacky:

 

[Hellisreal]

That is too funny and sad all at once.

 

[OneForTruth]

I agree. Props where props are due.

As a former Evangelical I understand some of the dynamic that motivates people like Kirk and Ray (not saying I know their hearts, though). As an Evangelical I was constantly told it was my duty to witness to everyone I possibly could because God would hold me personally responsible for their salvation. Needless to say, no one would sit next to me on a public bus! LOL!

Catholics, even ones who are strong in their faith and wish to see everyone within the arms of the Church, aren’t laboring under the threat of personal judgment if they can’t win people over. We believe in proposing, not imposing the Gospel.

This is not to say that holy zeal and boldness isn’t a part of Catholicism–it is. But the motivation is often quite different from our Evangelical brethren. Although, there certainly are Evangelicals motivated purely by love of God and neighbor. I just didn’t meet many when I was one of them.

Your church gave a wrong impression to you about evangelism…it is all about love.

 

[teajay]

I personally cannot stand the whole “have you stolen before? Yes. Then you’re a thief!” tactic.

Look at the example of someone that has both lied and told the truth before. According to the Way of the Master approach, they can generalise both instances and call the person a both a “liar” and a “truth teller”. “Dishonest” and “honest”. Of course, they never mention this and merely focus on the negative generalisation rather than the positive one. That’s the problem with gross oversimplifications - you cannot describe a person using a simple overly-emotive label and expect to do justice to the facts. “Liar” is most often used to describe someone with a greater than average tendency to lie, not someone who has lied now and then.

 

[NPS]

Im curious.

Who do you think would have done a better job? A catholic that is.

What protestant do you think would have done a better job?

From what I saw, you could have given me a few hour’s notice that there was to be a debate and then five minutes before the debate told me which side I would be on and I would have beaten either side handily. (And I’m closer to being an idiot than an intellectual.) An agnostic kid I know (age 21) would have wiped the floor with Cameron and Comfort, and the athiest couple were complete amateurs.

What gets me is that TV produces that stuff only because a former child star is one of the participants. Why not put on people with some range and intellect, not to mention someone with a deep understanding of the faith? In America we’re far more likely to see a former child actor in a religion/science debate than, say, a Benjamin Wiker. It’s embarrassing to be a part of such a culture.

What about Scott Hahn or Father Corapi. I personally have never heard them speak or read anything by them, but the catholics here talk about them all the time.

No one on that stage was even close to being in the same league of Hahn or Corapi. The debate participants were speaking in cartoon bubbles. Hahn and Corapi are about thirty stories above them in the tower of religious dialogue.

 

[predator_CA]

Kirk Cameron is more than one skrew short. The only credit I WILL give him is his devotness. I am not religious, but I swear that if I was and was faced with the prospect of hell, I would devote my life to christ. I am not at all however, I am an atheist, and from would I’ve seen of his prostilization, it’s beyond aggressive and borders on all-out hostility. I admit I have not seen this particular video, and if someone would give my a link I’d appreciate it. I just want to reiterate that I dislike the man very much.

 

[adora1]

Movie night features ‘Fireproof’

Burbank Seventh-day Adventist Church, 8351 New Castle Ave., Burbank, will offer a free viewing of the movie “Fireproof” starring Kirk Cameron, at 7 p.m. Feb. 15.

Child care and free popcorn and beverages will be provided. Information: (708) 280-7766.

Women’s health workshops

Peace Community Church, 130 S. Route 45, Frankfort, will host “Well Spring 2009: The Heart of a Woman” from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Feb. 21.

Heart health coordinator Barbara Ferrari, from Ingalls Health Center, will present workshops on exercise, nutrition and spirituality. The $25 registration fee includes continental breakfast, lunch and snacks.

Registration deadline is Saturday with Terri Maxeiner, (815) 464-8230 or terrimaxeiner@peaceinfrankfort.org.

Child care will not be provided. Participants should dress comfortably. Information: ww.peaceinfrankfort.org.

Parent’s night out

Faith Lutheran Church, 18645 Dixie Highway, Homewood, will host “Parents’ Night Out - Italian Style” from 5 to 7 p.m. Saturday featuring food from The Olive Garden. The cost is $7, and child care will be provided. Reservations: (708) 799-1160.

After 10:45 a.m. worship on Feb. 15, the children attend a valentine party at Waterford Estates, where they’ll sing songs and share cookies and handmade cards.

Celebrating Black History Month

First Christian Church, 1045 Dixie Highway, Chicago Heights, will celebrate Diversity Sunday and Black History Month on Feb. 15.

The 10:15 a.m. service will celebrate African American heritage with youth liturgical dancers doing an interpretation of “Someone’s Knocking at Your Door,” sung by the Spirit Wings ensemble. Information: (708) 754-3792.

Congregational meeting

Confirmation class for students in sixth to ninth grades will begin at 5 p.m. Tuesday in the Christian Education building at First Presbyterian Church, 17929 Gottschalk Ave., Homewood.

The annual meeting of the congregation and corporation will begin at 12:30 p.m. Feb. 15 and be preceded by a potluck in Westminster Hall. Information: (708) 798-0490.

Black History Month concert

As part of its Black History Month celebration, St. Andrew United Methodist Church, 18850 Riegel Road, Homewood, will present Stellar Award nominee Malcolm Williams and Great Faith in concert at 4 p.m. Feb. 15. Information: (708) 798-8904.

Celebrate Recovery meets in Monee

Monee Free Methodist Church, 25528 S. Willow Creek Lane, Monee, offers Celebrate Recovery, a weekly faith-based program for anyone dealing with habits, hurts or hang-ups.

The group meets at 7 p.m. every Thursday for a worship service, large group session and open share groups. The program ends at 9 p.m. at the church’s Solid Rock Cafe. Information: Pat Coakley, (708) 534-5683.

‘Fireproof’ on the big screen

New Life Church, 500 Gougar Road, New Lenox, will host a dinner and movie night at 7 p.m. Friday featuring “Fireproof,” the Kirk Cameron film about a firefighter’s attempt to rescue his own marriage.

The catered dinner will feature parmesan encrusted chicken or marinated pork tenderloin. The cost is $25 per couple, or $15 per person.

The movie will be shown on the big screen in the church auditorium. Child care will be provided on site, and all proceeds will benefit the youth ministry’s summer mission trip. Reservations are due today at (815) 462-0202.

Senior fellowship to host potluck

Trailblazers, a fellowship group for those 55 and older, will host a potluck at noon Tuesday at Peace Lutheran Church, 1900 E. Lincoln Highway, New Lenox. Information: (815) 462-9407.

TV, film star to visit St. Jude Parish

Emmy Award-winning TV and film star Frank Runyeon will present “Hollywood vs. Faith” Feb. 15 to 17 at St. Jude Catholic Church, 241 W. Second St., New Lenox.

The one-man performance will center on the struggle to live faithfully in the media age. Reservations are required at (815) 463-4281. Donations will be accepted at the door.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Two year old resurrected thread. Now closed.