Kiss of peace...between men?!

[seepamrun]

At a recent Mass, my husband observed two openly homosexual men exchanging a quick hug and kiss on the lips during the sign of peace. (Nobody else seemed to notice or care!) Besides praying for their souls, should anything be done–like confronting them directly? And how does one do that without coming off as self-righteous and judgmental?

 

[pensmama87]

At a recent Mass, my husband observed two openly homosexual men exchanging a quick hug and kiss on the lips during the sign of peace. (Nobody else seemed to notice or care!) Besides praying for their souls, should anything be done–like confronting them directly? And how does one do that without coming off as self-righteous and judgmental?

Is your husband absolutely, positively, sure that these two men are in a homosexual relationship with each other and that was the reason for the kiss? Kissing was common in the family of one man I dated. Men kissed their brothers and their fathers and sons on the lips. In some cultures or families this may be the norm.

I would not suggest confronting them directly at all, unless you already have a relationship with them, and direct knowledge of their sexual relationship. Assumptions are not good enough. Keep in mind too that even if you have this information, you may “come off” as self-righteous and judgmental regardless, just for actually saying something. Generally speaking, people who reject Church teaching know they are rejecting it. Prayers for conversion would be the most appropriate.

 

[Avila123]

At a recent Mass, my husband observed two openly homosexual men exchanging a quick hug and kiss on the lips during the sign of peace. (Nobody else seemed to notice or care!) Besides praying for their souls, should anything be done–like confronting them directly? And how does one do that without coming off as self-righteous and judgmental?

Personally, I would not confront them or look out for them but concentrate on the mass. If I saw it happen again, I would quietly ask the priest if it appropriate for two men to kiss that way and leave it to the priest. Other than that I would work at not judging others because I do not know other people’s hearts. I would only mention it because the sign of the peace is not supposed to cause anyone embarrassment or discomfort.

That is just my two pennothworth.

 

[Marie5890]

Is your husband absolutely, positively, sure that these two men are in a homosexual relationship with each other and that was the reason for the kiss? Kissing was common in the family of one man I dated. Men kissed their brothers and their fathers and sons on the lips. In some cultures or families this may be the norm.

I would not suggest confronting them directly at all, unless you already have a relationship with them, and direct knowledge of their sexual relationship. Assumptions are not good enough. Keep in mind too that even if you have this information, you may “come off” as self-righteous and judgmental regardless, just for actually saying something. Generally speaking, people who reject Church teaching know they are rejecting it. Prayers for conversion would be the most appropriate.

Great advice.

 

[VanSensei]

/headdesk

I’m going to offer a different perspective and insinuate that maybe they’re from a different country. In other countries, a kiss like that is as part of the status quo and as normal as a handshake. Don’t let tiny details like that detract you from worship.

 

[agnes_therese]

At a recent Mass, my husband observed two openly homosexual men exchanging a quick hug and kiss on the lips during the sign of peace. (Nobody else seemed to notice or care!) Besides praying for their souls, should anything be done–like confronting them directly? And how does one do that without coming off as self-righteous and judgmental?

How do you confront them? You don’t. It’s none of your business.

 

[livingwordunity]

Perhaps it was innocent. If they are gay activists they are hoping to provoke negative attention so they can call the media. But, either way, the best thing to do is to ignore it.

 

[crystal_waters]

Like the others said its not your business…unless the men in question have said to you that they are gay then you have no proof…second hand gossip isnt always reliable…

Tell your husband to concentrate on mass more and to spend less time watching the people around him

 

[Linusthe2nd]

At a recent Mass, my husband observed two openly homosexual men exchanging a quick hug and kiss on the lips during the sign of peace. (Nobody else seemed to notice or care!) Besides praying for their souls, should anything be done–like confronting them directly? And how does one do that without coming off as self-righteous and judgmental?

You might tell your pastor what you observed and suggest that such displays of affection, even between a husband and wife are not appropriate at the sign of peace. Whether to approach these two idiots or not depends on how much gumption you have. If you notice it again, you might tell them it is not to be done - but be prepared for a verbal vindictive.

Linus2nd

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

I would say it to the Priest and leave it to Fr. you have done your duty. If they do it again, can you change your place of worship, go to another Church, this carry on is not acceptable to God, the Church, and worshippers.

 

[coachdennis]

You might tell your pastor what you observed and suggest that such displays of affection, even between a husband and wife are not appropriate at the sign of peace. Whether to approach these two idiots or not depends on how much gumption you have. If you notice it again, you might tell them it is not to be done - but be prepared for a verbal vindictive.

Linus2nd

As the OP stated, no one seemed to notice or care. Pastors and presiding priests see more than you think. Many couples share a kiss at many parishes (it is called in many places the KISS of peace after all) and if the presider does not say “don’t do it” why should they stop? If you don’t like it personally, then as another poster said focus on the Mass and not what others are doing.

Also, as others have said unless someone knows explicitly what is going on it is none of your or anyone else’s business. In many cultures and families, two men kissing is not an issue and normal. Again, you may not like it, but they don’t need your permission.

And lastly, they are NOT idiots – they are fellow worshippers in church.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Is your husband absolutely, positively, sure that these two men are in a homosexual relationship with each other and that was the reason for the kiss? Kissing was common in the family of one man I dated. Men kissed their brothers and their fathers and sons on the lips. In some cultures or families this may be the norm.
.

My family is like this. If we were all Catholic, people would see the whole family kissing.

 

[seepamrun]

Thank you all for the advice and opinions. I’ve been praying about this a lot today, and I agree with those of you who say that praying for these men is the best way to handle the situation.

To clarify a few things that came up in your posts: 1) These men were in the pew right behind us at Mass; my back was turned to them during the sign of peace but my husband had turned around to shake their hands when he witnessed the kiss. He is quite sure what he saw. 2) These men are not from another culture in which men hug and kiss, and 3) Their actions and mannerisms are stereotypically homosexual (but I know we must not assume based on appearances alone).

Again, we will pray for these men to come to terms with their sin, repent and be saved.

 

[RileyG]

Please pray for them, that’ all you can do. IMHO I would never be comoftable kissing anyone from my family on the lips regardless of gender. That’s not very common in our culture, but it is elsewhere.

 

[sancte_joseph]

Honestly get over it. Focus on the great sacrifice of the Mass that is happening before you. And if you pray for them, pray for yourself first.

“Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?”

I’m sure that if these two men have ulterior motives, they will be dealt with by the priest… ultimately by God, not you. Nor any of us.

 

[crystal_waters]

Thank you all for the advice and opinions. I’ve been praying about this a lot today, and I agree with those of you who say that praying for these men is the best way to handle the situation.

To clarify a few things that came up in your posts: 1) These men were in the pew right behind us at Mass; my back was turned to them during the sign of peace but my husband had turned around to shake their hands when he witnessed the kiss. He is quite sure what he saw. 2) These men are not from another culture in which men hug and kiss, and 3) Their actions and mannerisms are stereotypically homosexual (but I know we must not assume based on appearances alone).

Again, we will pray for these men to come to terms with their sin, repent and be saved.

I agree with the other posters…kissing between men these days is common…i saw on reality tv today a group of male heterosexual male friends greet one another with hugs and kisses…does that make them gay? No!..so unless your husband saw them getting passionate in the pew behind you then its best to assume they are likely just friends or family…i mean how likely is it that two gay men are going to attend mass and start kissing during it?..i bet theres an innocent explanation…your husband is probably uncomfortable as a man at seeing two men kiss and automatically assumed the worst…that they was gay!

 

[andrewstx]

Yes it is a cultural thing. I remember when my late priest an American Russian Orthodox kissed me on both cheeks, giving me the kiss of peace.

Not only was he married he had a large family of kids and grandkids. Boy could they fill a church with just his family.

I think that with the far right captivity of the church, many are obsessed with homosexuals seeing them even when they are not there.

 

[JimG]

Yes it is a cultural thing. I remember when my late priest an American Russian Orthodox kissed me on both cheeks, giving me the kiss of peace.

Not only was he married he had a large family of kids and grandkids. Boy could they fill a church with just his family.

I think that with the far right captivity of the church, many are obsessed with homosexuals seeing them even when they are not there.

Yes, that is the actual liturgical sign of the original kiss of peace. If it is done this way, it ought to be done the same way for everyone in the congregation.

But the discomfort expressed by the OP seems to be yet one more reason that public displays of (personal) affection ought not to be a part of the sign of peace.

 

[andrewstx]

Yes, that is the actual liturgical sign of the original kiss of peace. If it is done this way, it ought to be done the same way for everyone in the congregation.

But the discomfort expressed by the OP seems to be yet one more reason that public displays of (personal) affection ought not to be a part of the sign of peace.

Well I agree about PDAs in church or even in general. I must be getting old and crankey!

 

[Boy_Wonder]

At a recent Mass, my husband observed two openly homosexual men exchanging a quick hug and kiss on the lips during the sign of peace. (Nobody else seemed to notice or care!) Besides praying for their souls, should anything be done–like confronting them directly? And how does one do that without coming off as self-righteous and judgmental?

They may not be gay. They might be of Mediterranean origin where that way of expressing affection is common enough.

Even if they are actively gay, it’s much better that they’re in the Church than away from it. As long as they remain there’s hope for them.

None of us should ever appoint ourselves the moral gatekeepers. That is so wrong in so many ways. It’s contrary to the gospel: see, Mt 13:24-30