Kissing in theatre/drama

[Pro-Life_Teen]

If you’re in a play which calls for a ‘kissing scene,’ can you morally be in the play if you have the lead?

I remember a thread on this a while back where some guys said that they would leave their gfs if they had a kissing scene. I think that’s a little extreme, but I could be wrong.

Of course, you could always ‘stage-kiss,’ though sometimes the teacher/director wants ‘real’ kissing.

And then there’s kissing in films. You can’t really get away with stage-kissing (thumbs between your lips, tape, etc) if there’s a close-up.

 

[Magicsilence]

Pro-Life_Teen:

And then there’s kissing in films. You can’t really get away with stage-kissing (thumbs between your lips, tape, etc) if there’s a close-up.

Just one of the reasons why films in general are not compatible with our faith IMO.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[jrabs]

I’m sorry - but there is nothing wrong with kissing. :nope:

It is not sinful and I am not sure why it poses a moral problem.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Kissing someone on the lips is not in itself sinful. My mother kisses me on the lips at times, and I’ve never heard a priest speak out against the practice. I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is the context of the kiss within the play/film, and the occasion of sin it can be. I had an on-stage kiss, not much more than a peck, back in high school with a girl who was not my girlfriend (now wife), and I can assure you that I was not tempted by passion when kissing a stranger. I think the best word to describe it would be… AKWARD. Basically, I’d say be prudent and judge stage kisses on an individual basis. First, know yourself. Then: How much contact? Length of kiss? (These would probably determine the “risk” of impurity) Message sent by the kiss? (Really probably within the message of the work and the risk of scandal).

Anyone’s thoughts on that other than - go ahead or no way?

 

[shyone]

Kissing on stage is nothing like real kissing at all. There is no intimacy because you are kissing someone that most often times, you don’t care for, AND you are doing it in front of hundreds of people, all the while thinking of your next line and your blocking. Most of the time, the director will assign a “count” to your kiss, and you are just counting until you break. It’s just acting. I’d be more concerned with nudity on stage, not the kissing.

 

[martino]

Kissing for a play or on film is really not as different from real life as people say. It is quite impossible to kiss someone of the opposite sex (who is not your mom or sister) on the lips without some sense of intimacy. People who say, “its only acting” or “it’s the characters that are kissing” are fooling themselves. I am basing my opinion on personal experience as well as practical observation. Notice how many Hollywood actors and actresses strike up real life relationships while working on a film together. It happens very frequently that two actors that play lovers in a movie end up “lovers” before the filming wraps.

It is not just because members of the opposite sex tend to attract one another, especially when kissing is involved, but the art of acting itself forces these people to cultivate feelings for each other. If you fail to establish “real” feelings for the other actor then you will have a very difficult time convincing everyone else of it and the performance will suffer.

For the record: I would not allow myself or my wife to passionately kiss anyone for any reason. I believe it is immoral for married people, even for actors, to passionately kiss anyone other than their spouse.

Even is you are not convinced that it is sinful you would have to at least admit that it is disasterous to a relationship to have one or both parties kissing (as well as other things) members of the opposite sex…for a living! There is a reason that Hollywood marriages do not typically last very long.

For people like ProLifeTeen who are not married I think it is ok to kiss people as long as it is done tastefully.

 

[Jwlynas]

Being an actor, I would hasten to point out that stage kisses are just that. Stage kisses. There is nothing more to them than that.

While some do get so into a role that they fall for their co-stars, that is rare and something a rational person should avoid. If a scene calls for you to drive a prop sword through someones “heart” without remorse, you would do it. That would not make you a killer.

 

[Transformer]

This year I performed in a show (stage acting) in which I was required seriously to stage kiss a girl whom I knew pretty well. Two points: Firstly, the kiss was not at all a near occasion of sin. I have trained myself enough to both act in the moment and to keep in total control as an actor that I was very far from lustful thoughts during that kiss. I am far closer to impurity of though when I simply sit thinking than when I am acting. Secondly, the purpose of the kiss in the show was not actually erotic, and it was not staged to be taken that way by the audience; it served a very different (though distantly related, obviously) purpose in the scene.

It is quite impossible to kiss someone of the opposite sex (who is not your mom or sister) on the lips without some sense of intimacy. People who say, “its only acting” or “it’s the characters that are kissing” are fooling themselves. I am basing my opinion on personal experience as well as practical observation. Notice how many Hollywood actors and actresses strike up real life relationships while working on a film together. It happens very frequently that two actors that play lovers in a movie end up “lovers” before the filming wraps.

I don’t agree with this inference. I did not feel intimacy, as I was lucky enough to be playing a character to whom intimate feelings do not come easily. In addition, faithful Catholics who have dedicated their lives to purity are not Hollywood celebrities. They have already trained themselves simply not to have lust in their lives. Catholic stage actors are almost certainly not participating in graphic sex scenes, but in simple romance kisses which artistically do not need to be explicitly sexual. Such Catholics are also not being encouraged by their publicity managers to do whatever it takes to stay on the front page of every magazine.

If you fail to establish “real” feelings for the other actor then you will have a very difficult time convincing everyone else of it and the performance will suffer.

This is not strictly true. For a simple romance (not a film actor’s graphic sex scene), the feelings an actor fabricates do not need to be erotic; for respectable stage acting, it is traditional, convincing, and not all that difficult to keep such feelings on a platonic, emotional level. In addition, a good actor is as good at outside-in work as inside-out; if he has problems with feelings of intimacy, mechanical perfection without the emotions is often possible for one kissing scene.

Even is you are not convinced that it is sinful you would have to at least admit that it is disasterous to a relationship to have one or both parties kissing (as well as other things) members of the opposite sex…for a living! There is a reason that Hollywood marriages do not typically last very long.

I’m not convinced of this. Kissing isn’t like sex; it isn’t specifically designed by God to be an expression of the sacrament of marriage or of sensual love. God invented sex, and he has control of its proper purposes; we’re the ones who invented putting our mouth orfices over other people’s as a sign of affection. If romantic stage kissing (once again, not graphic sex scenes from films) really does not entail a hint or lust or real intimacy for a good Catholic actor, then I don’t in particular see why his wife would be hurt by it. Still, if it does make his wife particularly uncomfortable, honoring her wishes is probably the holy thing to do.

In response to your statement about hollywood marriages, remember that faithful Catholic stage actors are not Hollywood-hardened celebrities and they do not act in overly-erotic film scenes. They are also not advised by agents to marry and divorce merely for the sake of staying in the spotlight for a week longer. There is a massive difference between a good Catholic working in a lust-free environment on one side, and someone as disordered and amoral as the average Hollywood actor working on a softcore porn movie on the other. There really isn’t a comparison between the two.

God bless.

 

[Clonereject1138]

If you’re in a play which calls for a ‘kissing scene,’ can you morally be in the play if you have the lead?

I remember a thread on this a while back where some guys said that they would leave their gfs if they had a kissing scene. I think that’s a little extreme, but I could be wrong.

Of course, you could always ‘stage-kiss,’ though sometimes the teacher/director wants ‘real’ kissing.

And then there’s kissing in films. You can’t really get away with stage-kissing (thumbs between your lips, tape, etc) if there’s a close-up.

Bah! No! People have Naaasssssttttyyyy diseases! Mononucleuosis-somthing-or-another. Icky peole! Unclean!

 

[Transformer]

Bah! No! People have Naaasssssttttyyyy diseases! Mononucleuosis-somthing-or-another. Icky peole! Unclean!

Must… end… the Sign of Peace…

 

[Smber2c]

I’m not convinced of this. Kissing isn’t like sex; it isn’t specifically designed by God to be an expression of the sacrament of marriage or of sensual love. God invented sex, and he has control of its proper purposes; **we’re the ones who invented putting our mouth orfices over other people’s **as a sign of affection.

I’m not so sure there is any logical, scriptural, or instinctual reason to belive the bolded parts above.

I’d agree with several people that a “peck on the lips” in a play or movie is okay. But, some open mouthed tongue wrestle? No. No. No. I won’t do it. I wouldn’t accept my girlfriend doing it.

I went on a retreat in college where we did an exercise on imtimacy. We stood 2 circles. Girls in the middle facing out, guys in and outer circle facing in. We were told to stare into the eyes of the person across from us and remain completely silent. After 30 seconds we rotated over one.

There was an incredible feeling of invading privacy despite not even touching.

If eyes can to that, I think it’s prudent to take great care in how liberally we use our lips.

 

[Transformer]

I’m not so sure there is any logical, scriptural, or instinctual reason to belive the bolded parts above.

(You bolded “God invented sex”; I’m assuming you didn’t mean to dispute that.)

I’m not aware of any scriptural evidence that could honestly be used to argue for either side.

I would defend my opinion on the basis of common sense; putting your eating and breathing orfice over another person’s and sucking seems like a very odd thing to do. It really is not at all like sex, which is clearly necessary for procreation, reflected in other parts of God’s creation, and has obvious emotional and social connotations in every demographic group in the world. It would be interesting to research how close to our kissing practice random, undisturbed native tribes have come. Such sociological evidence would probably answer this particular question.

I would also make an argument from experience. Kissing a lover is obviously an intense emotional and physical experience. When I contrast that with my experience stage kissing, it seems pretty clear that kissing isn’t objectively, universally a sign of intense intimacy. I really did feel nothing, sensually or emotionally, on stage. With such a wide range of possible experiences associated with kissing, it seems clear that it isn’t objectively anything in particular. Sex, by way of contrast, always has serious physical and emotional connotations to it, no matter the context. It is also always for procreation.

Really, I have a hard time disbelieving that whatever connotations kissing has, we put them there. It really does seem that, objectively, it is just a touch between relatively physically sensitive areas.

I’d agree with several people that a “peck on the lips” in a play or movie is okay. But, some open mouthed tongue wrestle? No. No. No. I won’t do it. I wouldn’t accept my girlfriend doing it.

In stage acting, I’ve seen very little open-mouthed kissing; I haven’t seen any outside of intentionally erotic and provocative works, which are obviously objectionable anyway.

I went on a retreat in college where we did an exercise on imtimacy. We stood 2 circles. Girls in the middle facing out, guys in and outer circle facing in. We were told to stare into the eyes of the person across from us and remain completely silent. After 30 seconds we rotated over one.

I certainly believe what you’re telling me here, but I can’t help but see it as an argument for the point I’m making. If simply looking someone else in the eye, not usually considered to be an intense sensual act, can be an intense, emotionally intimate experience, while my experience with stage kissing was not at all an intimate experience, then surely kissing is not so much more objectively intimate than merely looking someone else in the eye? Looking someone else in the eye can easily become an intense emotional experience, but it very well may not, and no one objects to looking others in the eye on stage. Kissing can easily become an intense emotional experience, but it very well may not, and yet several people here object to kissing on stage. Certainly, I’ll admit that it is easier for a kiss to become intimate than looking someone else in the eye, but experience seems to show that it is merely a difference in degree, not in kind.

If eyes can to that, I think it’s prudent to take great care in how liberally we use our lips.

I agree with you; I know that if I were to kiss someone of my age outside of the context of a show, I would be seeking emotional or physical gratification and I would end up sinning. Too, if a person thinks a stage kiss might be an occasion for sin or a cause of scandal, he should either find a sure way to remedy that or refuse to go through with it. I’m arguing that kissing is not objectively intimate, not that it isn’t usually or naturally intimate.

God bless!

 

[valient_Lucy]

Being an actor, I would hasten to point out that stage kisses are just that. Stage kisses. There is nothing more to them than that.

While some do get so into a role that they fall for their co-stars, that is rare and something a rational person should avoid. If a scene calls for you to drive a prop sword through someones “heart” without remorse, you would do it. That would not make you a killer.

I agree. For every acting couple that developed romantic feelings for their co-star, there are at least two that didn’t fall in love or even like each other at all.

Vivian Leigh and Clarke Gable couldn’t stand each other.

 

[drafdog]

Remember that sometimes the best symbol for a sharp knife is a sharp knife.

Acting is not sinful. Modern theatre has its roots in the morality plays of the middle ages. Note that in films where a church scene is required, it is most often a Catholic church which is depicted and a Catholic clergyman.

Relax and enjoy the life that God has given you.

Matthew

 

[Oceans_11]

Speaking as a false identity removed, I can say that you have nothing to fear from the Lord. He will be happy with your performance.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I believe when Pope John Paul II was an actor, he kissed his co-stars in some plays, and I remember reading that he actually enjoyed that part of his acting career.

I’m sure if he didn’t think it was a huge sin, we don’t have to either.

 

[nate12387]

As a student studying theatre design and technology, I don’t see anything wrong with it.

 

[chevalier]

If you’re in a play which calls for a ‘kissing scene,’ can you morally be in the play if you have the lead?

I don’t know. I don’t want to accuse anyone who does that of doing something immoral. However, there is always the option to fake it. There’s no need for accurate close-ups and brushing the cheeks or kissing just next to the lips should perfectly do the job of conveying the right meaning. I am probably more serious than I should be, but this is how I see it.

I remember a thread on this a while back where some guys said that they would leave their gfs if they had a kissing scene. I think that’s a little extreme, but I could be wrong.

It was probably I who said that and I haven’t changed my mind. Please note that I mean actual kissing, not a “kissing scene” which gave the impression of kissing but was actually faked.

Of course, you could always ‘stage-kiss,’ though sometimes the teacher/director wants ‘real’ kissing.

If the teacher wants real kissing in a school, I want real police in that same school. There’s no place in education for people who demand unwilling children to kiss. It’s harassment and it’s suing material, if not a criminal charge actually.

And then there’s kissing in films. You can’t really get away with stage-kissing (thumbs between your lips, tape, etc) if there’s a close-up.

Close-ups are not needed. In theatre, there’s no way to spot tape.

Also, there’s no way to check if people are kissing with open or with closed mouth unless it’s an extreme close-up in a film.

 

[chevalier]

While some do get so into a role that they fall for their co-stars, that is rare and something a rational person should avoid. If a scene calls for you to drive a prop sword through someones “heart” without remorse, you would do it. That would not make you a killer.

Sorry, but stabbing someone in a film or play is always acted, always faked. There’s no real blood drawn at any point. There’s no painful contact as well, either. Kissing, by contrast, is physically carried out but the normal meaning of it is claimed to be absent. This is totally different from stage killing.

I’d agree with several people that a “peck on the lips” in a play or movie is okay.

It might be. I suppose if no one involved gives it a second thought, and the audience is not scandalised, then nothing really wrong happens. I would not do that if I were married, though, I think. If I were single and not romantically committed to anyone, I might be able to play that with a friend, maybe in some circumstances with a stranger, but I’d rather have it cut out of the script.

But, some open mouthed tongue wrestle? No. No. No. I won’t do it. I wouldn’t accept my girlfriend doing it.

Yeah.

I went on a retreat in college where we did an exercise on imtimacy. We stood 2 circles. Girls in the middle facing out, guys in and outer circle facing in. We were told to stare into the eyes of the person across from us and remain completely silent. After 30 seconds we rotated over one.

There was an incredible feeling of invading privacy despite not even touching.

Yup.

If eyes can to that, I think it’s prudent to take great care in how liberally we use our lips.

Yup.

I believe when Pope John Paul II was an actor, he kissed his co-stars in some plays, and I remember reading that he actually enjoyed that part of his acting career.

I’m sure if he didn’t think it was a huge sin, we don’t have to either.

I don’t believe he would do anything he’d know to be even a little sin. If he did it as a young boy and then, later in his life, felt good about it, it must have been very innocent.

After all, you could, theoretically, kiss a friend as an expression of affection, but you don’t normally have a reason to.

My chief problem with stage kissing is that we aren’t talking about simply an affectionate gesture such as hugging someone. We’re talking about something you only do with a man if you’re a woman and something you only do with a woman if you’re a man. Therefore while it isn’t necessarily sexual, it’s not just a handshake, either. Please note that while “just kissing” is believed to be so innocent, “just kissing” a member of the same sex in the same way would feel homoerotic. So perhaps there is some significance?