Kissing Infidelity

[sanctamaria17]

There’s a difference between taking care of yourself and expecting your spouse to do the same and expecting your spouse to look like they did at nineteen or twenty. And rayne and everyone are right: it’s degrading to expect that.

If you’re running after kiddos all day and trying to clean the house, that doesn’t always leave time to go to the gym. Once you get past a certain age, it gets harder to keep the pounds off, especially if you’ve had children. Even if you can, your body is forever different.

It’s not that women aren’t trying but many of us feel it’s impossible to keep up with the Hollywood standards. Why try if we know we’ll never look like a Skinny Minnie ever again?

What about women who don’t like makeup or who are uncomfortable with a lot of it? What if it was never part of the routine? What if they’ve got skin problems?

Not every woman can keep off her post pregnancy weight, no matter how hard she tries. Not every woman is that skinny to start out with. Not every woman has a wicked fast metabolism.

No excuse. NO EXCUSE!!! But if you can’t find yourself attracted to your wife because she’s a “wife”, not a “girlfriend”, then there are bigger issues.

And people wonder why I don’t have a boyfriend? With attitudes like that so prevalent, even among the practicing Catholic men I know, forget about it!

Btw, I wear my hair short now! I don’t wear makeup now, except for job interviews! I guess that makes me a terrible wife, and I’m not even married

 

[TLM08]

On two different threads, you question or blame the woman for her husband’s infidelity. That is what is so infuriating to me. You don’t know these women. You don’t know the history or situation.

I understand your scenario. I just find it exteremely uncharitable for you to comment on hurting women’s posts the way you have.

Sometimes, partners cheat out of their own selfishness and sin. Sometimes, a man or woman hasn’t gotten “fat and lazy” or started ignoring their partner. Sometimes, a partner pulls away and the other spouse doesn’t know why… then finds out there is an affair.

Sometimes, we cannot have sex for medical reasons… chemo, for example. Sometimes, partners put on weight because of kidney disease. Sometimes, a girlfriend/boyfriend role takes a backseat when there are REAL medical and life issues, and we should cling to one another as husband and wife. No one would say the other spouse is to blame if the partner cheats in this situation. I know a wonderful, loyal woman who was diagnosed with cancer 21 years into her marriage… and her selfish, sinful husband dealt with it by turning to cocaine and other women. I’m telling you, IT HAPPENS.

AGAIN… for better or worse, we commit for life. If we want a “happy” marriage, we get help from the Church when things start to sour. We don’t go find someone else to fill a gap for us that a spouse SHOULD fill.

I most certainly did not blame these individual women. These are strictly my own opinions and observations on a very painful topic. Everyone’s situation is going to be unique to that couple.

Infidelity is not strictly a male problem either. Many wives have strayed because their husband prefers spending their evening with fantasy football to spending a little time being with her. Women who no longer have any regard for their personal appearance should not be shocked to find that their husband’s eye may begin to wander. The truth can indeed be painful. But sticking our heads in the sand is not an effective prevention strategy.

Infidelity can never be justified, but temptation is a reality of life. The prudent spouse is aware of this and takes reasonable preventatve measures. Unfortunately a few of those who find this idea offensive may one day be shocked to find out that their husband or wife is suddenly taking more “business trips” than usual.

On the other hand, there is no creature lower than one who would cheat on (or leave) a spouse during (or because of) an illness.

What it took to attract your husband in the first place is what it often takes to keep him. The old bait & switch isn’t smart if you want to want marriage to be a lifetime thing as God intended. Same goes for men as well.

 

[Lerin]

I most certainly did not blame these individual women. These are strictly my own opinions and observations on a very painful topic. Everyone’s situation is going to be unique to that couple.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[whatevergirl]

You see… the problem is that many (not all) wives let themselves go once the wedding is over. They often blame childbirth for an additional 50 lbs. The hair gets cut sort and make-up is no longer a part of her daily routine. Her behavior starts to change. She no longer feels the need or desire to give of herself. Much of what attracted her husband (physically and emotionally) in the first place gets phased out as she shifts into “mommy mode”.

Men will often do the same thing. They will stop paying attention to their wife. They get fat and lazy. Entire weekends consumed by sports, drinking with buddies, and spending entirely too much time at work.

Sometimes it’s a matter of what came first? The chicken or the egg? Did her bahavior cause his? Or did his behavior cause hers? What does it matter? These are the perfect set ups for infidelity to creep into a marriage. Just a word to the wise.

again, blaming women. I find your posts so rude. Do you treat your wife with this type of rudeness? Some women AND men let themselves go…how often have we seen in sitcoms or movies where the man is 50 lbs overweight, but expects his wife to be in perfect shape? I keep myself in good shape, and so does my husband…but our looks is not what keeps the marriage going. My looks attracted my husband at first glance, and he still finds me beautiful, but it’s who I am as a person that keeps the marriage alive. Not the size dress I wear. I find it sad that you think a long lasting marriage is based on whether or not a wife gains weight, or cuts her hair short? I feel badly for your wife, it sounds like if she gains some weight…you might be looking at what’s ‘better’ for you out there. You may not mean this at all with your posts, but it sure is coming out that way, sir.

I think it’s important to stay looking nice for one’s spouse…but it’s not what keeps a marriage alive and long lasting.

Wow, just wow.

 

[whatevergirl]

TLM – I don’t know about your posts…they really seem rude, yet you come back with a save.

I will say that it’s important to stay looking nice for one another in marriage…and HEALTHY. I want to be here for my husband, and he wants to be here for me, in our old ages. We stay in shape, BUT…this is not what keeps us together. Physical attraction is important, but men and women stray because there is something lacking within them. It’s just dangerous to blame a spouse for the infidelity of a marriage. This doesn’t mean we as spouses should take for granted one another, and just expect that the person will tolerate it…and love us anyways. Yes, we took vows, but it’s also work to keep things exciting, romantic, appealing, and fun. I think that it can be easy to let one’s self go, but if a woman gains 50 lbs…her husband shouldn’t leave her over that. If he does, she might be better off…sounds like a shallow guy, frankly.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying TLM, but sometimes you come across like a marriage staying together and exciting, is all about the woman…and the man can just ‘show up,’ to the experience. It takes two to make a marriage work. Frankly, I have known more men who have cheated on beautiful wives than men who have deserted their wives after gaining weight…I don’t think your theory is right, because if you look at Hollywood, what causes those men to cheat? They are married to some of the most beeautiful women in the world.

A cheater will always blame something for his/her behavior…and often times, the truth of why they cheated lies within them.

 

[TLM08]

There’s a difference between taking care of yourself and expecting your spouse to do the same and expecting your spouse to look like they did at nineteen or twenty. And rayne and everyone are right: it’s degrading to expect that.

If you’re running after kiddos all day and trying to clean the house, that doesn’t always leave time to go to the gym. Once you get past a certain age, it gets harder to keep the pounds off, especially if you’ve had children. Even if you can, your body is forever different.

It’s not that women aren’t trying but many of us feel it’s impossible to keep up with the Hollywood standards. Why try if we know we’ll never look like a Skinny Minnie ever again?

What about women who don’t like makeup or who are uncomfortable with a lot of it? What if it was never part of the routine? What if they’ve got skin problems?

Not every woman can keep off her post pregnancy weight, no matter how hard she tries. Not every woman is that skinny to start out with. Not every woman has a wicked fast metabolism.

No excuse. NO EXCUSE!!! But if you can’t find yourself attracted to your wife because she’s a “wife”, not a “girlfriend”, then there are bigger issues.

And people wonder why I don’t have a boyfriend? With attitudes like that so prevalent, even among the practicing Catholic men I know, forget about it!

Btw, I wear my hair short now! I don’t wear makeup now, except for job interviews! I guess that makes me a terrible wife, and I’m not even married

Let’s keep things in perspective. First off, Hollywood standards are an illusion created by good genetics, silicone, high end cosmetics, sophisticated lighting techniques, rampant eating disorders, and a public stupid enough to embrace this illusion as if it’s real life. In short, Hollywood standards of beauty is an absolute joke.

We are all subject to the natural aging process. There are men who prefer overweight women and vice versa. Some men like blue eyes… Some women prefer men with good incomes.

These are all superficial but important components of the very complicated and vast subject area of male female relationships. These things can have quite an influence on relationships and can be the source of terrible resentments within marriage. They cannot be ignored.

It is the old “bait & switch” that causes trouble.

 

[TLM08]

TLM – I don’t know about your posts…they really seem rude, yet you come back with a save. …

II don’t disagree with what you are saying TLM, but sometimes you come across like a marriage staying together and exciting, is all about the woman…and the man can just ‘show up,’ to the experience. It takes two to make a marriage work.

Thank you.


Oh…I’ve blasted men for being insensitive, shallow, self-absorbed, overweight, sports addicted jerks too. But some of you ladies seem to skip right over that!


I know… You gals have got to stick together.

 

[baylee]

Thank you.


Oh…I’ve blasted men for being insensitive, shallow, self-absorbed, overweight, sports addicted jerks too. But some of you ladies seem to skip right over that!


I know… You gals have got to stick together.

TLM, I saw those parts of your posts and I think you have been balanced in your responses.

I’m only married 1 1/2 years now (so take my opinion with a grain of salt), but I think the key is not to expect our spouses to be the same person we first married…we will change …as will our marriages… as time marches on. I think successful marriages embrace and foster the positive changes and work through the negative changes through communication, understanding and forgiveness.

 

[SourGrape]

Whatever girl,

Great and sensible posts! The heart of the question, to me anyway, is what is the number one reason an adulterer cheats? Does he/she lose interest in the spouse? Does the spouse somehow “drive” him/her away? Is it just one of the seven deadly sins of Lust?

Or is it the other one of Pride? “Hey, my new young co-worker is checking me out! I must still ‘have it’ at 40!”

Or, is it, ultimately, a lack of self love and love of God? Isn’t it true that if we didn’t break the First Commandment, we wouldn’t sin at all? Just my two sense…but, I will say, that I do agree with those posters on here who state that both spouses need to try their best to be attractive for each other and spend quality time with one another.

 

[Imryl]

It is the old “bait & switch” that causes trouble.

Oh please. As if husband or wife WANTS to gain weight and be less attractive all around.

Bait and switch indicates intent.

 

[whatevergirl]

Whatever girl,

Great and sensible posts! The heart of the question, to me anyway, is what is the number one reason an adulterer cheats? Does he/she lose interest in the spouse? Does the spouse somehow “drive” him/her away? Is it just one of the seven deadly sins of Lust?

Or is it the other one of Pride? “Hey, my new young co-worker is checking me out! I must still ‘have it’ at 40!”

Or, is it, ultimately, a lack of self love and love of God? Isn’t it true that if we didn’t break the First Commandment, we wouldn’t sin at all? Just my two sense…but, I will say, that I do agree with those posters on here who state that both spouses need to try their best to be attractive for each other and spend quality time with one another.

All could be true, actually. From seeing family and friends leave marriages for other people…or just cheat, and stay in their marriages…a common thread was intertwined with all of them–a God shaped hole. Only God can fill up the vacuum within us, that cries out for attention, love, whatever…often, cheaters look to marriages for too much. What I mean by that, is that a spouse cannot make the other happy, if that spouse is just not happy in life…lacks God…lacks self esteem, etc…A marriage cannot make a person whole, if they are lacking in something. If a person had a bad childhood, for example…or has a bad relationship with his/her mom/dad…the spouse cannot take the place of that relationship. Often times, people look to a spouse to correct the pain of their pasts, etc…and it’s an unfair burden to put on a spouse. My sister did this with her now ex husband, and she still isn’t all that happy…dating men didn’t turn out as exciting as she had hoped, and looking back, her husband wasn’t that bad.

If a man jumps in bed with his hot secretary, let’s say…it doesn’t happen over night…He flirts, toys with the idea, etc…and then the affair begins. I don’t believe that the hot secretary is better than his wife at home, but rather, there is something lacking within the man that he hopes will be fulfilling with committing this sin.

Sin, all sins…don’t look like sin before we commit them. Ever notice that? The devil will always tempt us with something that he convinces us will make US feel better…and no matter what a person is struggling with, everything starts with a temptation. The devil comes to us not as an evil monster dressed in a red cape with a pitchfork. lol Rather, he tempts us with our weaknesses. If he showed up dressed like the villain he is, no one would sin! lol

Sin is seductive. For a man/woman to cheat on his/her spouse, there has to be something inside of them that convinces them they will feel better doing ‘xyz.’ But,in the end, sin reveals itself.

So, this is why I say, men cheat on good looking wives as well as not so good looking ones. It’s a problem within the cheater, moreso than the marriage. I have seen many cheat, and that to me has always been the ‘theme.’

 

[whatevergirl]

Oh please. As if husband or wife WANTS to gain weight and be less attractive all around.

Bait and switch indicates intent.

I agree. I read that and went… TLM, you need to work on your delivery, sir.

 

[TLM08]

Oh please. As if husband or wife WANTS to gain weight and be less attractive all around.
…

If the husband or wife of that person finds a significant amount of excess weight to be a turn off, then it’s not only welcoming problems, it’s begging for them.

 

[TLM08]

ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!! Which is one of the big reasons that I have gone to great lengths and much effort to maintain my figure (after 3 kids), my weight, my activity level, and yes, an active sex life w/ my husband. Will this guarantee that neither of us would ever stray? There is no such guarantee. But it won’t be because he lost his “girlfriend” or that our intimacy is not the safest refuge for him from the stress that only increases over the years with the demands of career, kids, etc.

Other issues in a relationship can falter as well, but if you are dedicated to connecting physically w/your partner and have the confidence in your ability to provide comfort and pleasure, your communication has to be strong–and few men will abandon that.

Again:
If all wives had the attitude of this woman, male infidelity would rapidly become an endangered species!

 

[whatevergirl]

If the husband or wife of that person finds a significant amount of excess weight to be a turn off, then it’s not only welcoming problems, it’s begging for them.

That’s true, but I can’t imagine someone gaining weight purposely, because they have a husband/wife, and don’t ‘need’ to look good anymore. That is what bait and switch is…to intently draw someone in, KNOWING you will change to a negative, and thus fooling them into marrying you. Not sure the folks I know who have gained weight were so conniving. lol

That being said, staying fit should be about health first, and taking care of our bodies as temples of the Lord. Secondly, it will help us to be attractive to our spouses, which is good, too! But, if my husband were to gain a lot of weight, I’d want to help him, not leave him. It’s not a very Christian attitude to view marriage as…what’s in it for me?

 

[Imryl]

If the husband or wife of that person finds a significant amount of excess weight to be a turn off, then it’s not only welcoming problems, it’s begging for them.

Clearly you’ve never experienced such a problem.

My husband went from 180-190lbs when we first started dating to 260(+?) today, eight years later. Do I find the extra weight attractive? Um… no. Does that mean he’s inviting me to have an affair? Does that mean he’s begging for us to have problems in our marriage?

Absolutely not.

I gained 70lbs while pregnant (over twice the normal weight gain)… and whether he found it attractive or not, he was man enough to keep it to himself and never skipped a beat. Five years later I’m just now able to comfortably fit into a size six again.

What you speak of is a sign of immaturity.

 

[CJ_Nick]

It’s a safe bet to say that the majority of married people in these forums have not had intercourse outside of their marriage, but what about kissing? How many of us are guilty?

Hi TLM,

I am not only NOT guilty of suggested kissing but find it the " event " similar in all ways of intercourse.

It is ( just like ending in intercourse ) a complete break in the very foundation of being one in marriage. Furthermore, I can not imagine how this ( passionate kissing ) can not diminish and weaken the trust that we place in eachother to grow in our marital journey as one with Christ.

Although I believe it can be overcome, the " act " is NO different than intercourse, IMHO.

Just my 4 and a half cents

Peace,
CJ

 

[TLM08]

Clearly you’ve never experienced such a problem.

My husband went from 180-190lbs when we first started dating to 260(+?) today, eight years later. Do I find the extra weight attractive? Um… no. Does that mean he’s inviting me to have an affair? Does that mean he’s begging for us to have problems in our marriage?

Absolutely not.

I gained 70lbs while pregnant (over twice the normal weight gain)… and whether he found it attractive or not, he was man enough to keep it to himself and never skipped a beat. Five years later I’m just now able to comfortably fit into a size six again.

What you speak of is a sign of immaturity.

The above quote was in response to your question: “What if the spouse WANTED to gain weight… on purpose”

… the context also suggested that this was done with no regard for the other spouse’s preference.

Please do not quote me out of context.

 

[TLM08]

That’s true, but I can’t imagine someone gaining weight purposely, because they have a husband/wife, and don’t ‘need’ to look good anymore. That is what bait and switch is…to intently draw someone in, KNOWING you will change to a negative, and thus fooling them into marrying you. Not sure the folks I know who have gained weight were so conniving. lol

That being said, staying fit should be about health first, and taking care of our bodies as temples of the Lord. Secondly, it will help us to be attractive to our spouses, which is good, too! But, if my husband were to gain a lot of weight, I’d want to help him, not leave him. It’s not a very Christian attitude to view marriage as…what’s in it for me?

Great post and God Bless you! Thank you for not quoting me out of context as others have done!

 

[TLM08]

All could be true, actually. From seeing family and friends leave marriages for other people…or just cheat, and stay in their marriages…a common thread was intertwined with all of them–a God shaped hole. Only God can fill up the vacuum within us, that cries out for attention, love, whatever…often, cheaters look to marriages for too much. What I mean by that, is that a spouse cannot make the other happy, if that spouse is just not happy in life…lacks God…lacks self esteem, etc…A marriage cannot make a person whole, if they are lacking in something. If a person had a bad childhood, for example…or has a bad relationship with his/her mom/dad…the spouse cannot take the place of that relationship. Often times, people look to a spouse to correct the pain of their pasts, etc…and it’s an unfair burden to put on a spouse. My sister did this with her now ex husband, and she still isn’t all that happy…dating men didn’t turn out as exciting as she had hoped, and looking back, her husband wasn’t that bad.

If a man jumps in bed with his hot secretary, let’s say…it doesn’t happen over night…He flirts, toys with the idea, etc…and then the affair begins. I don’t believe that the hot secretary is better than his wife at home, but rather, there is something lacking within the man that he hopes will be fulfilling with committing this sin.

Sin, all sins…don’t look like sin before we commit them. Ever notice that? The devil will always tempt us with something that he convinces us will make US feel better…and no matter what a person is struggling with, everything starts with a temptation. The devil comes to us not as an evil monster dressed in a red cape with a pitchfork. lol Rather, he tempts us with our weaknesses. If he showed up dressed like the villain he is, no one would sin! lol

Sin is seductive. For a man/woman to cheat on his/her spouse, there has to be something inside of them that convinces them they will feel better doing ‘xyz.’ But,in the end, sin reveals itself.

So, this is why I say, men cheat on good looking wives as well as not so good looking ones. It’s a problem within the cheater, moreso than the marriage. I have seen many cheat, and that to me has always been the ‘theme.’

While at the store today, I noticed a couple. The man was a very average looking fellow in his 50s. His wife was about 5’5 and every bit of 300lbs plus. Her hair was short enough to pass military standards for men and she had a significant amount of untrimmed facial hair.

I have no reason to doubt that they were deeply in love and faithful to one another. But I have to wonder how her physical situation effects their intimate life. Just as easily, it could have been the husband in such a physically unattractive condition. I also realize that this woman may be an absolute angel of a human being. It’s likely that she is much better off spiritually than I will ever be.

How does a man remain sexually faithful (no porn, no sinful fantasies or distractions) when the arousal factor is zero? But for the grace of God… there go I.

It’s an honest question folks, so please don’t slaughter me.

Just wondering.