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VinnyDee78
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sure - send me your email address and I will send you the attachement.
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twb1621
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250 posts I think…do you know what that magic number is?
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tobinatorstark
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check your PM. Should be there
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VinnyDee78
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No Joy - Tom got through to my PM. Don’t see yours yet for some reason. still learning the roaps… please retransmit.
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tobinatorstark
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just sent it. Hope you receive it
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VinnyDee78
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Done - you should have it now. Keep in mind this was no easy feat.
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tobinatorstark
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ok. Got it. Looks good
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VinnyDee78
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Does looks good mean correct
???
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tobinatorstark
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Yes, although I would also insert the Deutrocanonical books where they are shown in the D-R to demonstrate how the D-R is laid out, but also not take them from the Apocrypha section so Protestants can show where they were located in earlier version of the KJV. As stated before the KJV had its apocrypha in between the OT and NT. It was removed all together in 1885
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VinnyDee78
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Excellent recommendation - I will do that.
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twb1621
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Excellent work, Vinny, I have sent you a couple links that may be of assistance to you by PM. If there is anything else you need as you proceed, feel free to ask us. Let me know how those links serve your purpose. You may already have them, I don’t know.
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VinnyDee78
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Got them - Thanks. I will check them out.
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Manfred
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Two things:
(1) you can read the KJV and the D-R side-by-side using the Parallel Bible feature of either crosswalk.com or studylight.org;
(2) if you want the text of the D-R AND that of the Clementine Vulgate (a Church-approved version) along with it, go to
newadvent.org/bible/
.
(1) you can read the KJV and the D-R side-by-side using the Parallel Bible feature of either crosswalk.com or studylight.org;
(2) if you want the text of the D-R AND that of the Clementine Vulgate (a Church-approved version) along with it, go to
newadvent.org/bible/
.
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VinnyDee78
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Is the D-R not approved? Thanks for the links.
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VinnyDee78
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Here’s a more important question to me at this stage in my project… is the D-R index identical to the Clementine Vulgate?
In other words - regardless of translation differences, are the same books represented?
Thanks - Vinny
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tobinatorstark
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The D-R is certainly approved. It isn’t used in our liturgy anymore. It is approved by the Church as number of selected Catholic Bibles. In the United States the NAB is approved for liturgy. Other parts the world the Jerusalem Bible and RSV-CE are approved for liturgy.
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twb1621
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from encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Clementine+Vulgate
“Vulgate (vŭl
gāt) [Lat. Vulgata editio=common edition], most ancient extant version of the whole Christian Bible Bible [Gr.,=the books], term used since the 4th cent. to denote the Christian Scriptures and later, by extension, those of various religious traditions. This article discusses the nature of religious scripture generally and the Christian Scriptures specifically, as ..... Click the link for more information. . Its name derives from a 13th-century reference to it as the "editio vulgata." The official Latin version of the Roman Catholic Church, it was prepared c.A.D. 383–A.D. 405 by St. Jerome Jerome, Saint (jərōm, jĕrəm), c.347–420?, Christian scholar, Father of the Church, Doctor of the Church. ..... Click the link for more information. (c.342–420) at the request of Pope St. Damasus I Damasus I, Saint (dăməsəs), c.305–384, pope (366–84), a Spaniard; successor of Liberius.… Click the link for more information. , his patron. The Vulgate was intended to replace the Old Latin version (the “Itala”), which was translated from the Greek. Jerome first revised the Old Latin Gospels, translating them in 383–84. Using the Septuagint and Origen’s Hexapla Hexapla (hĕk`səplə) [Gr.,=sixfold], polyglot edition of the Hebrew Bible prepared by Origen (c.185–c.255).
… Click the link for more information. , he set to work (385–89) on Job, the Psalms, Chronicles, the books attributed to Solomon, and chapters 40–55 of Isaiah. From 390–405, Jerome used the Hebrew Masoretic text, with the aid of several rabbis, for the basis of his translation. Regarding the Psalms, Jerome made three versions: the Roman Psalter, a mild revision of the Old Latin translation of the Septuagint, used in the Roman liturgy until c.1570; the Gallican Psalter, a revision of the Old Latin to parallel it with the Hebrew Masoretic text; and the later Hebrew Psalter, a new translation of the Hebrew Masoretic text. Texts of the Vulgate now contain the Gallican Psalter. As to the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament, Jerome made hasty translations of Tobit, Judith, and the additions to Daniel and Esther; the rest he did not touch, hence the Vulgate includes Old Latin versions of them. From the 5th cent. the Vulgate was popular in the West; by the early Middle Ages it was used everywhere by the Latin churches of the West. All the early vernacular translations were from the Vulgate, which was the first Bible printed on Gutenberg’s press. In 1546 the Council of Trent made the Vulgate the official version of the Catholic Church, and in 1592 the official text with no variants was promulgated by Clement VIII. All subsequent editions of the Vulgate published with the church’s imprimatur represent this Clementine edition.”
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twb1621
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Vinny, if you haven’t yet, it would be helpful to read the following so you can better understand the history of the vulgates;
“…At the present day scholars are practically agreed as to the competence of St. Jerome for the work given him by Pope St. Damasus. He, moreover, had access to Greek and other manuscripts, even at that time considered ancient, which are not now known to exist; he could compare dozens of important texts, and he had Origen’s “Hexapla” and other means of determining the value of his material, which we do not possess. It is obvious that the pure text of St. Jerome must form the basis of any critical version of the Latin Bible, and, what is more, that it must be taken into account in any critical edition of the Septuagint Greek version of the Old Testament and the various Greek texts of the New Testament, no manuscript copies of which are older than St. Jerome’s Latin translation made on then ancient copies. Richard Bentley, the great scholar, as long ago as 1716, saw the importance of St. Jerome’s translation. “'Twas plain to me,” he writes, “that when that copy came first from that great Father’s hand, it must agree exactly with the most authentic Greek exemplars; and if now it could be retrieved, it would be the best text and voucher for the true reading out of several pretended ones.” Substantially, no doubt, the present authentic Clementine text represents that which St. Jerome produced in the fourth century, but no less certainly it, the printed text, stands in need of close examination and much correction to make it agree with the translation of St. Jerome. No copy of the actual text is known to exist; and the corruptions introduced by scribes, etc., in the centuries posterior to St. Jerome, and even the well intentioned work of the various correctors, have rendered the labours of trying to recover the exact text from existing manuscripts both difficult and delicate. This, however, is the work which must be done as the first step in the revision of the Vulgate. It is consequently the aim of the present commission to determine with all possible exactitude the Latin text of St. Jerome and not to produce any new version of the Latin Scriptures. Of course it is altogether another matter to determine how far St. Jerome was correct in his translation: to settle this will no doubt be the work of some future commission.”
Continued at newadvent.org/cathen/15515b.htm
“…At the present day scholars are practically agreed as to the competence of St. Jerome for the work given him by Pope St. Damasus. He, moreover, had access to Greek and other manuscripts, even at that time considered ancient, which are not now known to exist; he could compare dozens of important texts, and he had Origen’s “Hexapla” and other means of determining the value of his material, which we do not possess. It is obvious that the pure text of St. Jerome must form the basis of any critical version of the Latin Bible, and, what is more, that it must be taken into account in any critical edition of the Septuagint Greek version of the Old Testament and the various Greek texts of the New Testament, no manuscript copies of which are older than St. Jerome’s Latin translation made on then ancient copies. Richard Bentley, the great scholar, as long ago as 1716, saw the importance of St. Jerome’s translation. “'Twas plain to me,” he writes, “that when that copy came first from that great Father’s hand, it must agree exactly with the most authentic Greek exemplars; and if now it could be retrieved, it would be the best text and voucher for the true reading out of several pretended ones.” Substantially, no doubt, the present authentic Clementine text represents that which St. Jerome produced in the fourth century, but no less certainly it, the printed text, stands in need of close examination and much correction to make it agree with the translation of St. Jerome. No copy of the actual text is known to exist; and the corruptions introduced by scribes, etc., in the centuries posterior to St. Jerome, and even the well intentioned work of the various correctors, have rendered the labours of trying to recover the exact text from existing manuscripts both difficult and delicate. This, however, is the work which must be done as the first step in the revision of the Vulgate. It is consequently the aim of the present commission to determine with all possible exactitude the Latin text of St. Jerome and not to produce any new version of the Latin Scriptures. Of course it is altogether another matter to determine how far St. Jerome was correct in his translation: to settle this will no doubt be the work of some future commission.”
Continued at newadvent.org/cathen/15515b.htm
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VinnyDee78
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Just taking a short break from endless hours of formatting… I read the last two posts of your and am curious about something…
Tom has provided me with a wealth of information and here’s a synopsis and a question ala Vinny style - St. Jerome did a translation in 342-420 AD from the original Greek and Hebrew documents available to him into the Latin Vulgate, and more than a thousand years later they are adopted, or the text is somehow passed down through the centuries and adopted as the official version of the Catholic church.
Then you have this Protestant movement with King James versions followed by multiple (30+)translations for both Catholics and Protestant communities, all claiming theirs is the best, improved in some way, more understandable, keeping with the evolving English language or something along those lines… just a synopsis of the historical perspective.
I’m not worried about the inaccuracies, misinterpretations, deletions, watering down, etc. - that certainly did happen, but give me your thoughts on something…
Why are people of all faiths having such rich spiritual experience regardless of the version they use?
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VinnyDee78
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I wrote the last post that I was writing initially to Tom as a PM, but thought it might generate some more dialog from others interested in continued participation in this KJV vs other Catholic Bibles thread… His Thanksgiving well wishes got me to thinking about all of the experiences I have had in my missionary labors with my Catholic family and friends, Protestant friends, Latter-day Saints, Muslims, and other religious persuasions…
I ask them how they know something is true, and if they don’t just say ‘because the Bible says so,’ it generally leads to some conviction based on feeling, emotion or spiritual experience which verified to them that their course of action was well directed… faithful.
So what is it that captures our hearts and leads us to Christ in a variety of settings, worship, and leads us to believe we have found the way?
And if you have an answer for that question, then does that imply that any one church, authority, ordinance is of more efficacy than another?
Why does this happen? What can we deduce from it all? Please don’t tell me everyone else is deceived…
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