Kneel? Stand? What would you do?

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Br. Rich SFO:
Remember that the law of the Church tells us to follow the instructions of those who lead us, UNLESS their instructions are incorrect. That means that every Catholic has an obligation to either know or find out what is correct or not correct.
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One LAST thing, I promise!
How did it come about that we all have to become “liturgical lawyers” in order to be Catholic?

I never dreamed of having to bring a GIRM book to Mass beside my missal. How close are we to phairsee-ism?
How did we get here?? Does the TLM have the same insanity?
 
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sweetchuck:
going to one of the churches that does have kneelers is not an option for a particular day, nor is it for me because of varying daily mass schedules. I go to any one of the four, depending on the schedule.
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No less important than the liturigical practice of standing or kneeling are to other principles of the faith. One is supporting one’s parish (this is one of the old “Seven Laws of the Church”). Flipping around from church to church is simply not proper. Becoming one of a particular community of faith is what the Church calls on us to do (obviously occassion visits are acceptable, but not habitual). Certainly one should be a part of the community before launching into criticism of a church’s practices.

Second, should one’s other activities make it impossible to do so, those activities are a probelm. if it is work related out of economic need, one can be sympathetic to the worker. But one also must recognize their is a social injustice here.
 
Our church doesn’t have kneelers, and we stand. There are maybe 5 or 6 people who choose to kneel (a few just sit on the edge of the pew and point their knees at the ground). I know we are supposed to kneel, but I feel very uncomfortable not doing what the rest of the congregation does. Especially since we always sit right up front. The congregation bows when the priest bows during the end of the eucharistic prayer.
 
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Mysty101:
Now, now, you’re maturity (or lack thereof) is showing.

(Not to mention your atitude toward authority)
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Harsh, it was a joke…
 
The poll does not take into account of the Eastern Catholic Churches were we always STAND after the Eucharist.

In the Eastern Rites, standing is the posture of praise AND reverance. Kneeling is ONLY during the Great Fast (for which we are in now), however during the Divine Liturgy on Sundays, the Liturgy is in celebration of Christ AND His Resurrection, thus we stand, even during the Sundays of the Great Fast.

With all of that said, when I am in a Latin Rite Church, I WILL kneel. (This is where I went to grade school AND it pays respect for the Latin Church.

(thus, my one a day Lenten post, until Easter)
 
If I went on vacation and the Catholic Church in the town where I was vacationing did not have kneelers or if they had kneelers but everybody stood during the consecration then I would stand during the consecration. What is this nonsense about kneeling on the floor if there are no kneelers? In the local Catholic Church that I am a member of I very seldom kneel down because I have bad knees.

Albert
 
Even if the entire congregation stood in open defiance of church law, I would kneel.
 
Chris Jacobsen:
Even if the entire congregation stood in open defiance of church law, I would kneel.
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And I would agree with you, if I knew for sure that it was in defiance of church law, and not because it was determined by the Pastor (with the OK from his Bishop) that this was the posture which was best for the common spiritual good of the community. Let’s face it—the average age in most communities keeps rising, (especially in retirement areas) and it may be difficult for many to kneel. Standing is the norm is some areas, so it cannot be a serious abuse.
 
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Edwin1961:
(thus, my one a day Lenten post, until Easter)
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Do you know that Sunday is never a day of penance? This is why Lent is 40 days, even though it is actually 46 Calendar days
 
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katherine2:
No less important than the liturigical practice of standing or kneeling are to other principles of the faith. One is supporting one’s parish (this is one of the old “Seven Laws of the Church”). Flipping around from church to church is simply not proper. Becoming one of a particular community of faith is what the Church calls on us to do (obviously occassion visits are acceptable, but not habitual). Certainly one should be a part of the community before launching into criticism of a church’s practices.

Second, should one’s other activities make it impossible to do so, those activities are a probelm. if it is work related out of economic need, one can be sympathetic to the worker. But one also must recognize their is a social injustice here.
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Ummmmm…that’s a pretty judgmental post. You have to politicize everything, don’t you? There’s no social injustice issue, I work a night shift: 5 p.m. to 1 a.m. Getting up early for 7:30 Mass is not possible. Would you get up for a daily 3:30 a.m. Mass…everyday, even if something else were available? FYI: I have a sleep disorder.

OK, my options are, go to Sunday Mass at my parish and daily Mass at my parish only on Tuesdays and Thursdays at noon, if I were to take your advice, or go to Sunday Mass at my parish and daily Mass at my parish on Tuesdays and Thursdays at noon, and other parishes that offer noon Mass on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. How is going to Mass every day not proper? And members of my Catholic community in my area have been disserved by priests who have defied the bishop of our diocese, who has said churches should kneel. I’m not launching into criticism, as you accuse, I am simply kneeling during the most holy moment of the day. I’m not doing it in protest. I do it in reverence. It’s how I meet my Lord.
 
In a church, I only receive standing when everyone does that and the practice doesn’t look irreverent in performance. I just don’t want to be the single person that sticks out and looks hollier than thou.

No receiving in hand in normal circumstances. Rome says on the tongue is the norm. I don’t care if local bishops or priests think they are important enough to outlaw the church’s general norm, I’m not going to take part in that. Again, if people received in hand and still did that reverently, I would probably receive in hand myself in order to respect their custom. But if receiving on the tongue were explicitly outlawed by a bishop, I would probably go to his cathedral, kneel down before him and open my mouth, knowing my personality. Unless he had valid reasons, but I can’t think of any (unless I don’t know, he only has freshly trained EMHEs to distribute it and there’s a risk of transferring a disease that spreads through saliva). I probably wouldn’t do that to a poor parish priest who had vowed obedience to his bishop.

I believe any such regulation should be reported to Rome. We are Roman Catholic Church. Roman.
 
What if the local bishop and local pastor decide that everyone should stand on one foot during the consecration and do the Chicken Dance immediately after and then rub our heads and pat our stomachs until the Agnus Dei?

Should we go along to get along? :confused:

I ask questions because I seek knowledge.
 
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katherine2:
No less important than the liturigical practice of standing or kneeling are to other principles of the faith. One is supporting one’s parish (this is one of the old “Seven Laws of the Church”). Flipping around from church to church is simply not proper. Becoming one of a particular community of faith is what the Church calls on us to do (obviously occassion visits are acceptable, but not habitual). Certainly one should be a part of the community before launching into criticism of a church’s practices.

Second, should one’s other activities make it impossible to do so, those activities are a probelm. if it is work related out of economic need, one can be sympathetic to the worker. But one also must recognize their is a social injustice here.
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OOOO Katherine I knew it was you!
LOL! One can support a parish and attend a mass at another parish!!
I can’t believe you brought the “social justice” aspect of all of this into a thread about kneeling…
So, while I end my Laetare Sunday reprieve of giving up the forums for lent, I just have to ask you…Are you from the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese???
I guess I have to wait until Easter Monday to find out.
God Bless all of you!
 
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Mysty101:
Do you know that Sunday is never a day of penance? This is why Lent is 40 days, even though it is actually 46 Calendar days
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No, you are right, but those of us who do things the old way, give up something for all of the days between Ash Wednesday and Easter. We get a reprieve only on Laetare Sunday. I only used the Sunday off thing when I refrained from solid food for lent. That was a tough year.

I couldn’t believe how much mail I got on some of my forums in three short weeks!
 
Dr. Bombay:
What if the local bishop and local pastor decide that everyone should stand on one foot during the consecration and do the Chicken Dance immediately after and then rub our heads and pat our stomachs until the Agnus Dei?

Should we go along to get along? :confused:

I ask questions because I seek knowledge.
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My Pastor gives a great response to this type of question—Be reasonable.

Standing is or at least was a legitimate liturgical posture. I will follow the Pastor, unless something definitely seems very wrong (such as your examples), and ask questions later. I do not believe in disrupting public worship.

I am not going to try to determine if the Pastor has the Bishops approval when he decided this was in the best interest of the congregation. Standing is not a serious abuse, especially if there is a good reason for it. Also I do not think it is a serious abuse to kneel in a standing congregation, and I would feel the same way about someone standing in a kneeling congregation.
 
I would obey my bishop. Until the pope removes or chastises him, he is my spiritual leader and father. I would obey his commands that I agree with, and those I don’t unless it came to actual sin. Standing at Mass is not a sin. Condoning sex abuse of minors is a sin.

If my bishop preached against contraception and abortion and I was a politician whose career depended on promoting those evils, I would obey my bishop.

The knife cuts both ways.
 
I would obey my bishop. Until the pope removes or chastises him, he is my spiritual leader and father.
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The Pope is above him.
Standing is not a serious abuse, especially if there is a good reason for it.
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If it’s abuse, it doesn’t matter how serious it is. Is it OK to do a tiny wrong if you know it’s wrong?

I refuse to stand up during consecration unless in the given environment standing is at least as reverent as kneeling is in the Church’s standard.
Honestly, we kneel on coats when we can’t get to the seats with kneelers.
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What do you do if you don’t get a seat at all or if you don’t have a coat?
 
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chevalier:
The Pope is above him.
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GIRM22. The celebration of the Eucharist in a particular Church is of utmost importance.
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For the diocesan Bishop, the chief steward of the mysteries of God in the particular Church entrusted to his care, is the moderator, promoter, and guardian of the whole of its liturgical life.33 In celebrations at which the Bishop presides, and especially in the celebration of the Eucharist led by the Bishop himself with the presbyterate, the deacons, and the people taking part, the mystery of the Church is revealed. For this reason, the solemn celebration of Masses of this sort must be an example for the entire diocese.
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The Bishop should therefore be determined that the priests, the deacons, and the lay Christian faithful grasp ever more deeply the genuine meaning of the rites and liturgical texts and thereby be led to an active and fruitful celebration of the Eucharist. To the same end, he should also be vigilant that the dignity of these celebrations be enhanced. In promoting this dignity, the beauty of the sacred place, of music, and of art should contribute as greatly as possible.
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So I guess it comes down to whether or not we trust our Bishop to carry out his role in the liturgy.
If it’s abuse, it doesn’t matter how serious it is. Is it OK to do a tiny wrong if you know it’s wrong?
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Read RS–there is definitely a distinction
I refuse to stand up during consecration unless in the given environment standing is at least as reverent as kneeling is in the Church’s standard.
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Agreed—you think you know reverence better than your Pastor or Bishop?
What do you do if you don’t get a seat at all or if you don’t have a coat
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I would stand
 
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