Kneel? Stand? What would you do?

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JHutch:
Bishop Olmsted of Phoenix has writen two pieces on this subject here are the links to Part 1:

diocesephoenix.org/pressRoom/bishopColumn.htm

…and Part 2

catholicsun.org/bishopColumn.htm

we have kneelers in my parish that don’t get much use as it has become the “custom” to stand even through the Eucharistic Prayer. There are a few of us that do kneel at the appropriate time.

These articles give a clear explanation and should inspire those who don’t know any better to follow…
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The devil has no knees

According to Abba Apollo, a desert father who lived about 1,700 years ago, the devil has no knees; he cannot kneel; he cannot adore; he cannot pray; he can only look down his nose in contempt. Being unwilling to bend the knee at the name of Jesus is the essence of evil (Cf. Is 45:23, Rom 14:11). But when we kneel at Jesus’ name, when we bow down in service of others, and when we bend the knee in adoration, we are following in the footsteps of the Magi, we are imitating Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St. Maximillian Kolbe, and all the saints and angels in heaven.
“Come, let us bow down and worship. Let us kneel before the Lord who made us.
 
We are not discussing refusing to kneel, we are talking about no kneeling when there is a good reason not to kneel.
 
Having no kneelers in a Latin Rite Church is modernism and comes from those with a false understanding of the mass and what the Church teaches. Please do not tell us about Cathederals in Europe, either.

There is no norm that says one should not kneel when there are no kneelers.
 
But there is a norm which gives examples of good reasons not to kneel. It is not the fault of the parishioner, if there are no kneelers, and if there isn’t sufficient room to kneel or some other reason which the Pastor feels is valid, I am not going to argue with him.
 
If there are no kneelers and one wants to kneel and does kneel I can’t see how that would be a problem.
 
Last year I traveled to Sucre, Bolivia on a Mission. While there, we visited the Cathedral for a Sunday Mass. Wonderful, beautiful, transcendant, orthodox, traditional. The place was so packed and many were standing, so many of us moved for the elderly to sit, when the time for consecration came, everyone, EVERYONE kneeled. Those with no pews or kneelers kneeled on the ground.

I am Eastern Catholic and we don’t kneel at our Divine Liturgy/Holy Qurbono, but when I attend a Latin Mass I do kneel. It is the proper Tradition of the Latin Church. If you come to my Church, don’t kneel; when you are in yours, please follow your Tradition. It is a beautiful expression.
 
While I still have not had the honor of receiving the Body and Blood of our blessed Lord, since I have yet to finish the RCIA and be Confirmed. I would say that I would kneel to receive it, it is the only way that gives the reverence that such an act demands, after all we believe in the Real Presence and the Eucharist is not just a symbol.

In the Church of the parish that I am doing the RCIA in, there are NO kneelers and also virtually everyone takes communion in the hand. Because of this I am going now to a Tridentine Mass in Latine and there, everyone kneels and takes communion in the mouth as it should be.
 
. If you come to my Church said:
I know that feeling Michal_Thoma… I’m Byzantine Ruthenian Rite and we are FOREVER getting “wanderers” looking for a “traditional Mass”. We had visitors on St. Thomas Sunday one year and I knew we were in “trouble” when I saw the 6-yr old wearing a veil.

As we reached the Consecration part of the Divine Liturgy, these people tried to put the kneeler down and I stopped them and asked them to please stand, that as we were in the Paschal season, we were not permitted to kneel. They got hysterical! I thought were we going to have to have them removed from the Divine Liturgy. They started name-calling and tell us were we Devil Worshipers because we didn’t kneel during the Consecration. I was ready to smack them in the head with an ikon and kick their butts out the door!

A little respect and education does go a LONG WAY!

so many eggs, so little time…

Presvataja Bohorodice, Spasi Nas!
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Asimis:
In the Church of the parish that I am doing the RCIA in, there are NO kneelers and also virtually everyone takes communion in the hand. Because of this I am going now to a Tridentine Mass in Latine and there, everyone kneels and takes communion in the mouth as it should be.
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I see, you have not even entered the Church, but you already know how it should be. All the US shepherds are wrong. You are right.

Great attitude.
 
kneeel like were required to? ive kneeled on concrete for a long time, not too bad.
 
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Asimis:
While I still have not had the honor of receiving the Body and Blood of our blessed Lord, since I have yet to finish the RCIA and be Confirmed. I would say that I would kneel to receive it, it is the only way that gives the reverence that such an act demands, after all we believe in the Real Presence and the Eucharist is not just a symbol.

In the Church of the parish that I am doing the RCIA in, there are NO kneelers and also virtually everyone takes communion in the hand. Because of this I am going now to a Tridentine Mass in Latine and there, everyone kneels and takes communion in the mouth as it should be.
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This is a bit of a broad sweeping generalization! What do you think of the Eastern Churches, are we “irreverent”? I hope you are attending an Indult Mass and not one of those Schismatic SSPX ones.
 
Here is a very thorough response from Colin Donovon posted on the EWTN FAQ site. Mr. Donovon quotes from the GIRM and also the Code of Canon Law for the requirements of the Latin Rite Mass. It is very interesting, so please take the time to read it.

ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp

For some reason I cannot get the FAQ to appear in the Web address. When you go to the site, click on the Liturgy, then scroll down to “Kneeling at the Consecration” and click on there!!
 
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The letters have been posted many, many times.
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So what is the problem that so many people have with obeying Rome? Why the insistence on loyalty to a disobedient priest or bishop instead of doing the right thing??
 
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Kelly:
So what is the problem that so many people have with obeying Rome? Why the insistence on loyalty to a disobedient priest or bishop instead of doing the right thing??
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It is called Americanism. Some on the left refuse to obey Rome and attempt to use the letter of the law, self interpreted, as a cudgel.

Rome has spoken. The case is closed. We should obey.
 
The rubrics of the Mass require Americans to kneel from the end of the Sanctus through the end of the Great Amen. However, if one has a physical impairment that prevents kneeling, then it would be permissible to stand or sit. Is it a temporary situation for the 2 churches without kneelers? If it’s permanent and you still must occasionally attend the kneeler-less churches, perhaps you could take a kneeling pad with you. You might even start a trend that will ultimately affect other parishioners, thereby leading the pastor to install kneelers.
 
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fix:
It is called Americanism. Some on the left refuse to obey Rome and attempt to use the letter of the law, self interpreted, as a cudgel.

Rome has spoken. The case is closed. We should obey.
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I don’t think this is limited to the left; those on the far right also refuse to listen and say that if one doesn’t kneel even for Eucharist, they are committing sacrilege…
 
Michael_Thoma:
I don’t think this is limited to the left; those on the far right also refuse to listen and say that if one doesn’t kneel even for Eucharist, they are committing sacrilege…
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Heterodoxy on the right is a small portion in the Church. The left is wide and deep.
 
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fix:
It is called Americanism. Some on the left refuse to obey Rome and attempt to use the letter of the law, self interpreted, as a cudgel.

Rome has spoken. The case is closed. We should obey.
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Rome has also told us to obey our Bishop, who in turn has deligated some authority to our Pastor. But of course, you know better than either your Bishop or Pastor.

I did run into a situation once, and I was told that we are to obey our pastor, unless it is a matter of faith or morals–this would not include self-perceived minor liturgical abuses.
 
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Mysty101:
Rome has also told us to obey our Bishop, who in turn has deligated some authority to our Pastor. But of course, you know better than either your Bishop or Pastor.

I did run into a situation once, and I was told that we are to obey our pastor, unless it is a matter of faith or morals–this would not include self-perceived minor liturgical abuses.
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Mysty,
I’m really intersted, what would constitute a “major” liturgical abuse to you? The other question in my mind is why are minor abuses totally irrelavant to you?
 
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