Kneeling after receiving Communion

[Bonnie]

About 10 years ago or so we were told not to kneel after receiving Communion. Instead, we are to remain standing until everyone has received, then we can kneel.The reason given is that we should be in union or solidarity (can’t remember which word was used) with those who have not yet received. This is repugnant to me as well as distracting - people tend to chat while standing instead of praying.

The issue has come up again because our latest priest is trying to get the few of us who continue to kneel to stand. He also wants us (again a small minority) to stop genuflecting, but that’s another issue… I have knelt all these years.

I seem to remember reading here or in This Rock that bishops & priests do not have the authority to demand a particular posture after receiving.

I’m sure this has been answered before, just can’t find it. If anyone can direct me to a previous discussion I’d be grateful.

 

[benedictgal]

About 10 years ago or so we were told not to kneel after receiving Communion. Instead, we are to remain standing until everyone has received, then we can kneel.The reason given is that we should be in union or solidarity (can’t remember which word was used) with those who have not yet received. This is repugnant to me as well as distracting - people tend to chat while standing instead of praying.

The issue has come up again because our latest priest is trying to get the few of us who continue to kneel to stand. He also wants us (again a small minority) to stop genuflecting, but that’s another issue… I have knelt all these years.

I seem to remember reading here or in This Rock that bishops & priests do not have the authority to demand a particular posture after receiving.

I’m sure this has been answered before, just can’t find it. If anyone can direct me to a previous discussion I’d be grateful.

Here is the answer from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments:

“Numerous inquiries” received by the BCL led Cardinal Francis George, chairman of the BCL, to submit a dubium (doubt, question) to the Holy See’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) on May 26, 2003:

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the CDW, responded to the question on June 5, 2003 (Prot. N. 855/03/L):

Responsum: Negative, et ad mensum [No, for this reason]. The mens [reasoning] is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

I hope that this helps.

 

[Bonnie]

Thanks! The Cardinal’s reply seems a bit vague, but maybe that’s a good thing. Do you have a link for this that I can give to our pastor?

 

[promethius95945]

Thanks! The Cardinal’s reply seems a bit vague, but maybe that’s a good thing. Do you have a link for this that I can give to our pastor?

As I understand it, the normative practice is to kneel. While this can be dispensed with, the dispensation from this norm cannot prohibit the practice of the norm.

For example, the college I went to lacked kneelers in the chapel. The school had petitioned the bishop, who granted formal dispensation from kneeling during communion. The priests then tried to discourage those of us who kneeled anyway until I pointed out that such a dispensation in no way grants them authority to enforce a restrictive measure against the norm.

As to genuflecting, my understanding is that prior to receiving a sign of extreme reverence must be made, and that the norm for this in the united states is a profound bow, although genuflection is allowed within that stricture.

 

[benedictgal]

Thanks! The Cardinal’s reply seems a bit vague, but maybe that’s a good thing. Do you have a link for this that I can give to our pastor?

Here is the link:

adoremus.org/Kneeling-CDW-response03.html

I hope this helps.

 

[Bonnie]

Thanks - I’ll give it a try. He already told me that Catholic Answers is “too conservative,” don’t know what he would call Adoremus!

 

[benedictgal]

Thanks - I’ll give it a try. He already told me that Catholic Answers is “too conservative,” don’t know what he would call Adoremus!

It’s only reporting what was given by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, as well as what appears in the USCCB’s own newsletter.

 

[Sarika]

Thanks! The Cardinal’s reply seems a bit vague, but maybe that’s a good thing. Do you have a link for this that I can give to our pastor?

If you look up Cardinal Arinze on YouTube , you will find a video of him answering this very same question. The long and short of it is: permission was given to the Bishops to suggest standing BUT ONLY IF THOSE WHO PREFER TO KNEEL would still be permitted to do so.

Why are they looking around at everyone right after receiving communion anyway?

 

[benedictgal]

If you look up Cardinal Arinze on YouTube , you will find a video of him answering this very same question. The long and short of it is: permission was given to the Bishops to suggest standing BUT ONLY IF THOSE WHO PREFER TO KNEEL would still be permitted to do so.

However, the big difference is that he was speaking off the cuff and not in his capacity as prefect of the CDWDS. The article published in both Adoremus and in the Bishops Committee on Liturgy newsletter carries the official answer complete with the protocol number. This is important because when a protocol number is issued, that document bears the Congregation’s official stamp, so to speak, and it is also published in the official journal of the CDWDS.

 

[japhy]

Thanks - I’ll give it a try. He already told me that Catholic Answers is “too conservative,” don’t know what he would call Adoremus!

If he thinks CA and Adoremus are “too conservative”, politely suggest that the more “liberal” thing to do is to allow those people who wish to stand, to stand, and to allow those people who wish to kneel, to kneel. That is, after all, what the Church’s official position on the matter is.

 

[Newbie2]

About 10 years ago or so we were told not to kneel after receiving Communion. Instead, we are to remain standing until everyone has received, then we can kneel.The reason given is that we should be in union or solidarity (can’t remember which word was used) with those who have not yet received. This is repugnant to me as well as distracting - people tend to chat while standing instead of praying.

The issue has come up again because our latest priest is trying to get the few of us who continue to kneel to stand. He also wants us (again a small minority) to stop genuflecting, but that’s another issue… I have knelt all these years.

I seem to remember reading here or in This Rock that bishops & priests do not have the authority to demand a particular posture after receiving.

I’m sure this has been answered before, just can’t find it. If anyone can direct me to a previous discussion I’d be grateful.

Keep kneeling if you want to, same with genuflecting. I doubt you’ll be able to change his mind by waving some documents at him.

 

[EasterJoy]

As I understand it, the normative practice is to kneel. While this can be dispensed with, the dispensation from this norm cannot prohibit the practice of the norm.

From GIRM 43 (italics mine)
The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

The norm in the Archdiocese of Portland is to stand after the Agnus Dei, and to remain standing until the last person has received Holy Communion.

This has been discussed at the forum many times. There is a norm, but there is also no sin if you kneel or sit at this particular juncture of the Mass (an attitude of humility and so on being assumed, of course).

The priest may not have the authority to make you do it, but he certainly does have the authority to keep reminding you of the local norm…a charitable attitude on his part of course being assumed as well.

You can kneel, he can say out loud that he would rather you would choose to follow the norm instead, and you can amiably tolerate each other. Where there is the choice of mutual affection, it is not such a huge cross.

 

[Brendan]

The priest may not have the authority to make you do it, but he certainly does have the authority to keep reminding you of the local norm…a charitable attitude on his part of course being assumed as well…

The CDWDS, begin the legislative authority under Canon 16, give the bishop the authority to create a norm of standing from the Agnus Dei until the personal reception of Holy Communion.
After one has recieved Holy Communion, the authority of the bishop to regulate posture has ended, and the authority granted to the individual member of the faithful.

Since it behove the faithful not to intrude on the authority of the bishop to set posture where the CDWDS has empowered him, it also behoves the bishop (or priest) not to intrude on the faithful when the CDWDS has empowered them.

The bishop or priest can SUGGEST a posture to faithful after they recieve Holy Communion, but it would canonicly wrong to state that there is a particular diocesan norm to do stand.

 

[EasterJoy]

The CDWDS, begin the legislative authority under Canon 16, give the bishop the authority to create a norm of standing from the Agnus Dei until the personal reception of Holy Communion.
After one has recieved Holy Communion, the authority of the bishop to regulate posture has ended, and the authority granted to the individual member of the faithful.

Since it behove the faithful not to intrude on the authority of the bishop to set posture where the CDWDS has empowered him, it also behoves the bishop (or priest) not to intrude on the faithful when the CDWDS has empowered them.

The bishop or priest can SUGGEST a posture to faithful after they recieve Holy Communion, but it would canonicly wrong to state that there is a particular diocesan norm to do stand.

Yes. The CDWDS has stated that the intention was not to remove the freedom to sit or kneel. That doesn’t mean the bishop isn’t free to *express his desire *that everyone elect to remain standing until everyone present has received Holy Communion.

People sometimes don’t like the idea that a liturgical preference of the bishop can be clearly communicated even when it does not carry the force of law. They seem to have the attitude that “if it isn’t a binding rule, I don’t care to hear about it” or “if it is your preference, I want to be able to make it my business to enforce it as law, and require others to have a good excuse for making the choices allowed them”, one or the other. That seems too bad.

The priest is allowed to keep telling people what his preferences or the bishops preferences are, and the people are allowed to make the choices allowed them, even when the preferences don’t agree. This state of affairs is no great disaster in lay-cleric or lay-episcopal relations. I truly believe can serenely survive such a thing with our mutual affections intact!

 

[OraLabora]

This is not something I’ve ever bothered to research; in Quebec we have always kneeled after receiving, in private prayer. The monks at our abbey remain standing until the abbot sits, which is after everyone has received and the schola has ended the last repetition of the communion antiphon (it is chanted in Latin and repeated after each verse of the psalmody). Then the monks sit, and those who were keeling in the nave also sit.

For consecration, unlike those in the US our practice has always been to kneel at the consecration but then rise at the anamnesis, whereas you Yanks stay kneeling from the end of the Sanctus until the Great Amen.

I just go with the flow; for some reasons you folks in the US seem to have much controversy attached to kneeling, genuflecting, etc. For genuflecting, at our abbey the tabernacle is kept in a side chapel so we bow upon entering our pew; but genuflect if the Blessed Sacrament is on the altar; the monks do exactly the same.

 

[Brendan]

Yes. The CDWDS has stated that the intention was not to remove the freedom to sit or kneel. That doesn’t mean the bishop isn’t free to *express his desire *that everyone elect to remain standing until everyone present has received Holy Communion.)

I don’t have a problem with the Bishop expressing his desire at all. But that is not what a particualr norm is.

Rome has granted the Bishop the authority to set a posture after the the Agnus Dei up until the personal reception of Holy Communion. I respect that and I obey it.

Rome has also given each member of the faithful the authority to set their personal posture after they return to their pew. It then falls upon the bishop and priests to respect the authority of those in the pew in this matter.

I can certainly suggest a posture to the bishop regarding places where he is able to set posture, as he is to suggest a posture to me. But, in each case, the authority to suggest is equal.

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t have a problem with the Bishop expressing his desire at all. But that is not what a particualr norm is.

Rome has granted the Bishop the authority to set a posture after the the Agnus Dei up until the personal reception of Holy Communion. I respect that and I obey it.

Rome has also given each member of the faithful the authority to set their personal posture after they return to their pew. It then falls upon the bishop and priests to respect the authority of those in the pew in this matter.

I can certainly suggest a posture to the bishop regarding places where he is able to set posture, as he is to suggest a posture to me. But, in each case, the authority to suggest is equal.

I’ve been to several parishes where they don’t even stand after the Agnus Dei, which is in the GIRM approved for our archdiocese (archdpdx.org/liturgy/girm.html). The Archbishop would of course say something, but I doubt he has gone about looking to make a ruckus about it. Whether the people are choosing to kneel instead of stand at that point in the Mass is unfortunately not among his monumental liturgical concerns. Even in his capacity as chief liturgist for the archdiocese, he has far bigger fish to fry.

catholicsentinel.org/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=35&ArticleID=9263

As he put it: A bishop is the chief shepherd, the chief catechist and the chief liturgist in the diocese. It is his responsibility to define sacramental integrity. His teachings may be challenged, but when they are clearly in union with those of the Bishop of Rome and the other members of the college of bishops, it is more than likely that the challenger is way off base.

I think you and he are on the same page.

 

[zab]

I also am from the Pacific Northwest and like Bonnie and EasterJoy, we also were told several years ago to remain standing after the Agnus Dei and remain standing after receiving Communion until every one has received. However, when the change was actually implemented, there was clarification made regarding the posture when returning from Communion. So in our parish we remain standing after the Agnus Dei, but no one stands when coming back from Communion. Most kneel, except those with health issues.

 

[EasterJoy]

I also am from the Pacific Northwest and like Bonnie and EasterJoy, we also were told several years ago to remain standing after the Agnus Dei and remain standing after receiving Communion until every one has received. However, when the change was actually implemented, there was clarification made regarding the posture when returning from Communion. So in our parish we remain standing after the Agnus Dei, but no one stands when coming back from Communion. Most kneel, except those with health issues.

Right, that is a good clarification: either is OK, even here, although which practice is most widespread varies from parish to parish.

It makes me think: What a great problem to have, when the only question is how to be reverent.

 

[WhiteLeather]

None of the posts above so far mention that Communion is something “WE” do, not something “I” do. That is why a common posture is preferred. Standing is a posture of respect (think of King George’s reaction to the “Hallelujah Chorus”, for example) while kneeling is a posture of penitence. Part of the thinking - and perhaps theology - behind everyone standing is that the walk to receive Communion is a procession that we all enter, even when not all of us are moving at the same time.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal states that the Communion Song (they refer to it as a chant, which is their usual catch-all word for all types of music, it seems) begins WHILE the Priest/Presider is receiving and continues until all have received. So again, “WE” receive Communion as a group. Too many churches seem to hold off on the Communion Song until after the Priest/Presider has received his Communion, and that’s just not necessary or called for. Also, too many parishes fail to properly catechize on why we’re asked to all join in the Communion Song.

Where many parishes seem to really drop the ball is in not allowing the faithful time for their private thanksgiving after all have received. Nor do they often catechize on the difference between our public and our private thanksgiving. If they did, I would guess that the question on when “after” Communion is wouldn’t surface so often.

So feel free to kneel after receiving Communion - but respect the others also receiving and realize that “after” Communion is really after all have received. And if your priest doesn’t allow time for that, that’s the real problem. Also remember that the Apostles weren’t kneeling when they received the bread and wine from Jesus - they were sitting, or rather, reclining, as was the custom at that time.

Communion is something WE do. And it’s a wonderful gift.