Kneeling after the Agnus Dei

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codefro

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Is this the standard to kneel after the Agnus Dei? Any parish I go to I see some kneeling and some standing. What is the correct posture during this period of the liturgy?
 
I hope someone who knows answers this as I would like to know. I live on the border of two diocese: one kneels always at that point (the Lamb of God). The other diocese appears to prefer standing but some people kneel. When in the former, I kneel, and the latter, I stand since I think that is the preferred there. At Latin Mass we kneel at that point.

I think it is up to the diocese and I’d assume the way most people do it is what is correct for that locality. But I sure hope someone who knows gives an answer!

I don’t think one is necessarily better than the other as I believe we should defer to the bishop.
 
It’s up to the Bishop.

This was a very difficult change for our family. We’ve lived all over the world and US with the Army, but it wasn’t until we moved to the Pacific NW that everyone stood after the Agnus Dei. Unknowingly our whole family just knelt at our first Mass in the area and stood out like a sore thumb. I had to ask our priest and another priest whom we trust very much about what to do. I was about ready to tell my family we will kneel no matter what.but I really believe it that was my pride telling me I knew better. I will say our priest has said in private he believes we should all be kneeling, but we must be obedient to the bishop.
 
From the GIRM:
  1. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
 
codefro said:
Is this the standard to kneel after the Agnus Dei? Any parish I go to I see some kneeling and some standing. What is the correct posture during this period of the liturgy?
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Technically its by exception that we kneel after the Agnus Dei. The US and some other countries have an addition to their GIRM that calls for kneeling at that time. However, because the universal GIRM doesn’t call for it the local bishop may opt to go with that instead.
 
marty1818 said:
From the GIRM:
  1. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
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What Marty said 🙂

To the OP

While a common posture is generally defined for the diocese, the bishop may certainly allow each parish to decide it’s own posture, or even to allow each individual to chose their own posture. It’s all up to the bishop.

Also, was this Mass a Mass that might have had a large number of attendees from other diocese? If so, people could be unknowingly doing what they normally do it their own diocese

I know when I used to travel to my company’s Cleveland office, I would sometimes attend the morning Mass near my hotel. The bishop of Cleveland chose stading as the posture after the Agnus Dei, and quite often I would catch myself kneeling instead.

While I knew about GIRM 43 and recognize the authority of the local bishop to define that posture, I would quickly stand.

But for others who did not know, they might have just though the others didn’t know when to kneel and continue doing so.
 
The churches in my diocese that have kneelers, we kneel after the Sanctus is finished and stand up after the Great Amen. We kneel again after the Agnus Dei has finished, stand up & walk to go to Communion when it is our turn and most kneel after receiving Communion until the Blessed Sacrament is placed back in the tabernacle by the priest then when that is done, people sit back in the pews.

I did go to a church recently where people knelt when the Agnus Dei started instead of after as I have been accustomed to doing. Keep in mind, this parish also offers the EF at least once a month, but the Mass I was at was an OF Mass this happened at. Perhaps its the local custom as I was in a different diocese so I did as others did around me.
 
I have no idea because

serving we stand when congregation kneels etc and the choir is different again and being in both means I am all over the place when it comes to a regular said service and no idea when to sit stand or kneel

when various people have asked previous priests in passing every priest has said do what you feel right to do. But the congregation do not feel happy with this answer as they want to do what is right. But there don’t seem to be a right… Not just the Agnus Dei but any time of the service. After all, if you can’t kneel then God aint going to point you out and say no communion for wrong posture. What matters is where your heart/soul is. Having had communion in hospital and at home I sat throughout…
 
The universal GIRM says this:
  1. (…)Nevertheless, it is up to the Conference of Bishops to adapt the gestures and postures described in the Order of Mass to the culture and reasonable traditions of the people. The Conference, however, must make sure that such adaptations correspond to the meaning and character of each part of the celebration. Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), this practice is laudably retained. (…)
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Giving a nod to the bold, the CCCB decided
  1. (…)In the dioceses of Canada, the faithful should kneel at the Consecration, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.
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Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the Priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), it is laudable for this practice to be retained.
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So the CCCB did not impose kneeling only at the Consecration but confirmed that we must kneel at that time unless prevented by a valid reason. Bishops were told that the kneeling begins at the Epiclesis and continues until Mystery of Faith, yet for some reason certain bishops have still decided that standing will be the posture, even for the Consecration. I really don’t get it since it’s not their call to make.
 
marty1818 said:
From the GIRM:
  1. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
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When is a rule not a rule? This is the statement I keep coming across and it drives me crazy, why can’t the Church simply state the rules to observed during the Liturgy, period? It’s no wonder the Church is in such turmoil.
 
Brendan said:
What Marty said 🙂

To the OP

While a common posture is generally defined for the diocese, the bishop may certainly allow each parish to decide it’s own posture, or even to allow each individual to chose their own posture. It’s all up to the bishop.

Also, was this Mass a Mass that might have had a large number of attendees from other diocese? If so, people could be unknowingly doing what they normally do it their own diocese

I know when I used to travel to my company’s Cleveland office, I would sometimes attend the morning Mass near my hotel. The bishop of Cleveland chose stading as the posture after the Agnus Dei, and quite often I would catch myself kneeling instead.

While I knew about GIRM 43 and recognize the authority of the local bishop to define that posture, I would quickly stand.

But for others who did not know, they might have just though the others didn’t know when to kneel and continue doing so.
Click to expand...
MissRose73 said:
The churches in my diocese that have kneelers, we kneel after the Sanctus is finished and stand up after the Great Amen. We kneel again after the Agnus Dei has finished, stand up & walk to go to Communion when it is our turn and most kneel after receiving Communion until the Blessed Sacrament is placed back in the tabernacle by the priest then when that is done, people sit back in the pews.

I did go to a church recently where people knelt when the Agnus Dei started instead of after as I have been accustomed to doing. Keep in mind, this parish also offers the EF at least once a month, but the Mass I was at was an OF Mass this happened at. Perhaps its the local custom as I was in a different diocese so I did as others did around me.
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Perhaps someone could help me and lend some insight. I am in Cleveland, and what I’m about to say is probably going to make me sound really stupid, so I appreciate the help.

Growing up, I remember kneeling a lot more than we do now. In fact, we don’t kneel at all. I always kneel after Communion until the tabernacle is closed, that’s never changed, although I do see some people stand and some just sit. But as I’ve just recently started going back to church on Sundays I’m a bit confused. For some reason, I remember always kneeling BEFORE communion as well, and then when it was our rows turn we would stand and walk up.

What am I missing?
 
codefro said:
Is this the standard to kneel after the Agnus Dei? Any parish I go to I see some kneeling and some standing. What is the correct posture during this period of the liturgy?
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Kneel after lamb of god per the GIRM (in the United States). However, a national council of Bishops or a Diocese Bishop in any country may direct that congregations stand. If this is the case, an individual may still choose to kneel after Agnus Dei and shall not be compelled to stand. However, priests may not institute their own discretion for a conjuration to stand unless decided by the Diocese or national council. Further, if a person is unable to kneel they stand, and if they are unable to stand or kneel they sit after Lamb of God. Note: Some catholics will not kneel after Easter until Pentecost during mass regardless.

So with that all being said, yeah, a few will sit, and others will either sit or stand with most of the congregation following diocese rules on the matter.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/kneeling.htm
 
In my home country (Czech Republic) the congregation kneels after Agnus Dei. In Idaho most people stand after Agnus Dei while singing the hymn and only kneel after receiving the communion (however I noticed a few believers kneeling after Agnus Dei)

So, does this mean that both forms of worship (kneeling or standing and singing) are liturgically correct? I haven’t read any good explanation what is the appropriate form of liturgy here. From my understanding, the standing / singing emphasizes the community of believers (all are parts of one body of Christ) while the kneeling emphasizes individual respect to the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine.
Please correct me if I am wrong. If most of the believers stand and just a few kneel after the Agnus Dei, it makes those who are kneeling “stand out”. Personally I’d prefer kneeling (makes me more concentrated on whom I am about to receive) but I don’t want to be showing off any false piety or abuse the liturgy.
 
ZoeyBdo said:
Perhaps someone could help me and lend some insight. I am in Cleveland, and what I’m about to say is probably going to make me sound really stupid, so I appreciate the help.

Growing up, I remember kneeling a lot more than we do now. In fact, we don’t kneel at all. I always kneel after Communion until the tabernacle is closed, that’s never changed, although I do see some people stand and some just sit. But as I’ve just recently started going back to church on Sundays I’m a bit confused. For some reason, I remember always kneeling BEFORE communion as well, and then when it was our rows turn we would stand and walk up.

What am I missing?
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There are three periods of kneeling in the Mass.
  1. We kneel after the Holy,Holy, Holy until after the Great Amen. (this is the “before Communion” you are remembering). This part is standard in the US and **not optional **as long as you are physically able or there is some other problem such as sitting in bleachers where kneeling might be dangerous.
  2. After the great Amen, we stand for the Our Father, sign of peace and the Lamb of God. Then we kneel until Communion. This one is optional at the decision of the Bishop. Once the Bishop decides (stay standing or kneel), it is to be the same for all the parishes in his diocese.
  3. We kneel after receiving Communion. This is entirely optional on the part of each person. It is one of the postures that is acceptable but is sometimes strongly influenced by the local customs. Usually people kneel or sit but sometimes they stand.
Welcome back! 🙂
 
Corki said:
There are three periods of kneeling in the Mass.
  1. We kneel after the Holy,Holy, Holy until after the Great Amen. (this is the “before Communion” you are remembering). This part is standard in the US and **not optional **as long as you are physically able or there is some other problem such as sitting in bleachers where kneeling might be dangerous.
  2. After the great Amen, we stand for the Our Father, sign of peace and the Lamb of God. Then we kneel until Communion. This one is optional at the decision of the Bishop. Once the Bishop decides (stay standing or kneel), it is to be the same for all the parishes in his diocese.
  3. We kneel after receiving Communion. This is entirely optional on the part of each person. It is one of the postures that is acceptable but is sometimes strongly influenced by the local customs. Usually people kneel or sit but sometimes they stand.
Welcome back! 🙂
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Thank you so much!! That makes so much more sense. I guess I’ve always sort of relied on going with the flow, and then when the flow didn’t make sense, my memory of how things were made me confused.

I’ll start doing that this Sunday. I know i’ll be one of the few kneeling, but I’m so glad to know that what I was feeling was right. It just felt really “off” to just be standing there. LOL.

Thanks again 🙂 I appreciate the help!
 
Corki said:
After the great Amen, we stand for the Our Father, sign of peace and the Lamb of God. Then we kneel until Communion. This one is optional at the decision of the Bishop. Once the Bishop decides (stay standing or kneel), it is to be the same for all the parishes in his diocese.
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With the caveat that what the Bishop may well decide is that it is up to the pastor if the people kneel or not. So “all the parishes in his diocese” may or may not be doing the same. 🤷
 
IrishAm said:
With the caveat that what the Bishop may well decide is that it is up to the pastor if the people kneel or not. So “all the parishes in his diocese” may or may not be doing the same. 🤷
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The actual wording in the US adaptation:
In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
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There isn’t really a provision to leave it up to the pastor. Since the wording is “unless the Diocisan Bishop determines otherwise,” without a directive to stand, the faithful would kneel.
 
I’m out of town for work and went to the closest church to my hotel. They stand after the Agnus Dei. There were a handful of us knelt though. I didn’t feel weird about it thought. 🤷
 
Bob_Aliano said:
When is a rule not a rule? This is the statement I keep coming across and it drives me crazy, why can’t the Church simply state the rules to observed during the Liturgy, period? It’s no wonder the Church is in such turmoil.
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The rule is always the rule. In this case the rule is that “The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.” The rule is simply stated and quite easy to understand.

As far as I can tell the turmoil is caused by those who don’t understand their proper roles in the Church, or aren’t willing to live in accordance with them. God, please help me to not be among them.
 
I thought I’d come back and comment after a joyful day yesterday.

My husband and I attended a different church in a city where we may be moving to, I just wanted to see the church 🙂

Anyway… there was no need to remember or think about it, the entire congregation kneeled after the Sanctus and after the Agnus Dei, all in one fell swoop, without hesitation.

THAT is what I remember from growing up as a child. It was really awesome to see. This was in the same diocese as my church, so now I know that at my church some folks just need re-educated 🙂 Like I did!

Something else I thought I’d share, I saw many people receiving on the tongue yesterday, young and old, younger than me in fact.

They were in line with everyone else, and there was no hesitation. This must be very common there and I wonder if in fact this parish teaches that since many were teenagers receiving on the tongue.
 
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