Kneeling and silence during the Creed

[Morning_Glory]

The first time I’ve been to Christmas Mass in many, many years and our priest had us kneel and observe silence for 30 seconds during the part of the Creed where we usually bow.

Not many people bow on a normal Sunday, and father having us kneel and observe silence was really quite wonderful.

Is this familiar with anyone else?

 

[Joysong]

Yes, our priest observed this customary pause to kneel.
I do not know of any parish that would fail in homage to Our Lord during this part of the Creed on the Solemnity of Christmas. You won’t see it during other times of the liturgical cycle, however.

Welcome home!

 

[Katie1723]

Joysong:

Yes, our priest observed this customary pause to kneel.
I do not know of any parish that would fail in homage to Our Lord during this part of the Creed on the Solemnity of Christmas. You won’t see it during other times of the liturgical cycle, however.

Welcome home!

I think this is wonderful. But what about the rest of the year???
~ Kathy ~

 

[Monica37]

We did not do this this year. I was kinda shocked because we have done this in our parish at Christmas and Easter every year. I was also surprised that no one else seemed surprised. I have to admit that I looked around because I knew that we were supposed to do it. We do have a new priest so maybe that was it. I like doing it though. The TLM does this at every Mass.

 

[Tonks40]

In regards to the Creed during regular Masses, it’s a bummer that very few in my congregation bows during the words “By the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.” But then again, I may not be able to observe because I’m bowing.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Very nice.

At the Christmas Eve Mass I attended, the Creed was skipped altogether. So was the Penetential Rite. And the Kyrie. On the plus side, there was clapping during the Gloria. The kids were invited to surround the altar and, of course, remain standing right through the Consecration. Father encouraged us all to hold hands during the Our Father. And he gave a big shout out just before the final blessing to our local NFL team for their big Christmas Eve victory and wished everyone a Happy Hanukah and Kwanza. It was truly an inspiring celebration of the Sacred Mysteries.

Or it reduced my time in Purgatory. Take your pick.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Joysong:

Yes, our priest observed this customary pause to kneel.
I do not know of any parish that would fail in homage to Our Lord during this part of the Creed on the Solemnity of Christmas. You won’t see it during other times of the liturgical cycle, however.

Welcome home!

Ours didn’t. “sigh” Bowing isn’t necessary either. “sigh again”

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Morning Glory:

The first time I’ve been to Christmas Mass in many, many years …?

You are aware that Christmas Mass is an obligation. Intentionally missing Mass on Christmas (in prior years) is a grave sin requiring Sacramental confession before returning to Holy Communion?

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Br. Rich SFO:

Ours didn’t. “sigh” Bowing isn’t necessary either. “sigh again”

Bowing is required, per the GIRM, in the part of the Creed discussed in this thread. I include the entire section on Genuflections and Bows to provide context.

**IV. Some General Norms for All Forms of Mass

** Genuflections and Bows

1. A genuflection, made by bending the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.

During Mass, three genuflections are made by the priest celebrant: namely, after the showing of the host, after the showing of the chalice, and before Communion. Certain specific features to be observed in a concelebrated Mass are noted in their proper place (cf. above, nos. 210-251).

If, however, the tabernacle with the Most Blessed Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers genuflect when they approach the altar and when they depart from it, but not during the celebration of Mass itself.

Otherwise all who pass before the Most Blessed Sacrament genuflect, unless they are moving in procession.

Ministers carrying the processional cross or candles bow their heads instead of genuflecting.

1. A bow signifies reverence and honor shown to the persons themselves or to the signs that represent them. There are two kinds of bows: a bow of the head and a bow of the body.

a) A bow of the head is made when the three Divine Persons are named together and at the names of Jesus, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of the Saint in whose honor Mass is being celebrated.

b) A bow of the body, that is to say a profound bow, is made to the altar; during the prayers Munda cor meum (Almighty God, cleanse my heart) and In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive); in the Creed at the words Et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . made man); in the Roman Canon at the words Supplices te rogamus (Almighty God, we pray that your angel). The same kind of bow is made by the deacon when he asks for a blessing before the proclamation of the Gospel. In addition, the priest bows slightly as he speaks the words of the Lord at the consecration.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Br. Rich SFO:

Ours didn’t. “sigh” Bowing isn’t necessary either. “sigh again”

I’m sorry I should have said “Bowing isn’t necessary either according to those in charge of what happens during the liturgy.”

 

[paramedicgirl]

Dr. Bombay:

Very nice.

At the Christmas Eve Mass I attended, the Creed was skipped altogether. So was the Penetential Rite. And the Kyrie. On the plus side, there was clapping during the Gloria. The kids were invited to surround the altar and, of course, remain standing right through the Consecration. Father encouraged us all to hold hands during the Our Father. And he gave a big shout out just before the final blessing to our local NFL team for their big Christmas Eve victory and wished everyone a Happy Hanukah and Kwanza. It was truly an inspiring celebration of the Sacred Mysteries.

Or it reduced my time in Purgatory. Take your pick.

You’re kidding, right?

Our priest had the altar servers ring the bells throughout the whole Gloria, (that got kind of annoying!) and the choir played We Three Kings for the entrance song, (isn’t that supposed to wait until the Feast of the Epiphany??) They totally skipped Joy to the World for the dismissal song. Instead they played God rest ye Merry Gentlemen for the dismissal. That’s the first time in years I haven’t heard Joy to the world at Midnight Mass.

 

[MusicMan]

Bowing during the Creed is one of those things that we’ve had since the Missal of 1970 but never got around to be encouraged universally until the revisions of 2000.

The rubrics call for the faithful to genuflect instead of bow during the words of The Incarnation on the Solemnities of the Nativity of the Lord and the Feast of the Annunciation. If the Creed is sung, then the faithful are to kneel during the words of The Incarnation.

Not sure about having silence while we do so, but certainly if the Creed is sung and the composer had put in silence for the people to observe…

My diocese does not encourage the bowing or the genuflecting. I do them anyway, not because I’m being a liturgy snob, but because the rubrics instruct me to do these things, therefore I do. I don’t gripe or complain about it to my priest or bishop, nor do I think less of anyone around me (including the priest) for not performing these gestures.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Br. Rich SFO:

I’m sorry I should have said “Bowing isn’t necessary either according to those in charge of what happens during the liturgy.”

Ahhh. Gotcha

It may help others who don’t know that we are actually suppose to genuflect, bow profoundly during the Creed, and even bow our heads at the name of Jesus, the BVM and saint of the day.

During the Gloria for example, there are two spots we should bow our head. There are others in the Mass as well, such as following the Our Father as the priest concludes his prayer prior to us saying, “For the kingdom…” and immediately after we say that, once again, he invokes the name of Jesus.

I never knew any of this until I seen it in practice at Assumption Grotto where I am now a parishioner. Large numbers of people observe all of these practices, most of the time.

 

[slewi]

Dr. Bombay:

Very nice.

At the Christmas Eve Mass I attended, the Creed was skipped altogether. So was the Penetential Rite. And the Kyrie. On the plus side, there was clapping during the Gloria. The kids were invited to surround the altar and, of course, remain standing right through the Consecration. Father encouraged us all to hold hands during the Our Father. And he gave a big shout out just before the final blessing to our local NFL team for their big Christmas Eve victory and wished everyone a Happy Hanukah and Kwanza. It was truly an inspiring celebration of the Sacred Mysteries.

Or it reduced my time in Purgatory. Take your pick.

C’mon. For real?

Stephen

 

[palmas85]

Dr. Bombay:

Very nice.

At the Christmas Eve Mass I attended, the Creed was skipped altogether. So was the Penetential Rite. And the Kyrie. On the plus side, there was clapping during the Gloria. The kids were invited to surround the altar and, of course, remain standing right through the Consecration. Father encouraged us all to hold hands during the Our Father. And he gave a big shout out just before the final blessing to our local NFL team for their big Christmas Eve victory and wished everyone a Happy Hanukah and Kwanza. It was truly an inspiring celebration of the Sacred Mysteries.

Or it reduced my time in Purgatory. Take your pick.

Diversity at it’s best

 

[Dr.Bombay]

slewi:

C’mon. For real?

Stephen

I’m as serious as a heart attack, Stephen.

I forgot a few things. Instead of responding, “Lord hear our prayer” at the Prayers of the Faithful, they changed that to some new agey something or other like, “Mighty Creator hear our prayer.” I continued to say, “Lord hear our prayer” not because I’m a liturgical snob, but because by that point I was getting thoroughly irritated and thought that was better than muttering imprecations under my breath. Also, Father used a Eucharistic Prayer that I’d never heard before and wasn’t one of the standard four. I’ll concede it might have been one of those EP for Masses with children or, based on the rest of the Mass, he might have been inventing it right on the spot. But he did incense the sanctuary before Mass, he said the words of consecration correctly, they rang bells and, judging by the appearance and taste, the Sacred Hosts were actually made out of just flour and water. So I was grateful for those small concessions to orthodoxy. I even shook Father’s hand after Mass and wished him a Merry Christmas. :getholy:

The funny thing was, the next morning I attended our traditional Latin Mass and I was talking to a lady afterwards. She asked if I spent time with the family on Christmas Eve and I told her yes, we went to Mass at St. such and such parish in (city). She got a horrified look on her face and said, “Oh, yes. I’ve heard about it.” So, apparently Father’s reputation for innovative liturgies is spreading far and wide.

And in case anyone is wondering, I was sitting in a catty-cornered aisle seat (think modern church in the round) with no one across from me and my brother-in-law right next to me so, no, I did not hold hands during the Pater Noster. Back to the original topic, I’m still wondering why we skipped the Creed. Even in Masses for children, the Apostles Creed is supposed to be said. But who knows? I could be wrong about that along with much else.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Dr. Bombay:

I’m still wondering why we skipped the Creed. Even in Masses for children, the Apostles Creed is supposed to be said. But who knows? I could be wrong about that along with much else.

Now doc, you gotta know the answer to that one. Saying the Creed is an acknowledgment and affirmation of all the things the progressive end of the Church would like to see change. So, why bother professing the faith?

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Lux_et_veritas:

Now doc, you gotta know the answer to that one. Saying the Creed is an acknowledgment and affirmation of all the things the progressive end of the Church would like to see change. So, why bother professing the faith?

Well, yes. But I was trying to give the good Father the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he skipped it because he wanted to be sure he had time at the end of Mass to thank:

The parish secretary. (applause)
The parish DRE. (applause)
The choir director. (applause)
The children’s choir. (applause)
The liturgy committee. (applause)
The people who decorated the church. (applause)
The lady who signed the Mass for the deaf. (applause)
The aforementioned NFL team. (applause and much hooting)

We must have our priorities in order after all.

I wonder if they hooted about football teams in the early Church?

 

[netmilsmom]

Dr. Bombay:

The aforementioned NFL team. (applause and much hooting)

We must have our priorities in order after all.

I wonder if they hooted about football teams in the early Church?

I think it was obligitory to hoot for the Christians over the Lions at that time. Being from Detroit, Hmmmmm.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I think it was obligitory to hoot for the Christians over the Lions at that time. Being from Detroit, Hmmmmm.

I can just hear it…Christmas Eve in Detroit, “And how about our Lions mauling the Saints?” (hoot, hoot, wooooooo!) I think the irony would be lost on most. :nope:

(Of course, do the Lions ever maul anybody, really?)