Kneeling during Agnus Dei

[jilly4ski]

I never knew people didn’t kneel until I read this thread. I’m always amazed at some of the things people complain about going on during masses because most of those problems are unheard of in most Northeastern parishes. Yet, everyone thinks Northeasterners are a bunch of crazy liberals .

It is actually a strange thing. I lived in the North East for a few years. (I think it might also be a difference between suburban and city parishes. It seems that city parishes which or often modeled after Northeastern architecture, often are very quiet, seemingly reverent, do things the same all the time, and everybody is very uniform in their actions, but have more liberal views on morality/theology. While the suburban parishes tend to be more “liberal” in their liturgical practices (and often have Churches to match). (I won’t comment on the morality factor in suburbia as it differs greatly). So it seems that northeasterners have mastered orderliness and quietness making the liturgy reverent and peaceful, and often traditional.

But in my experience the city parish (in NY) I attended, while the normal Masses were great, quiet and reverent, if it was a special Mass (say Easter vigil) you could actually say they were less reverent. No incense, not doing the full set of readings, no sprinkling rite, etc.They hardly did anything different from a normal Mass. It was like we didn’t have liturgical seasons, forget about getting the choir to sing liturgically appropriate hymns. While at suburban parishes, they tend to go all out (often too far) to represent the season. (Think water gun sprinkling rites, sand in the water fonts, awful felt banners, etc, but also good things like incense, baptisms during Mass, long adorations of the Cross, benediction, etc.).

Wow, this is off topic.

 

[Irish_Hare]

I believe kneeling and bowing at specific times is up to the local bishop. For example, I know the parish my girlfriend attends people stand when people are receiving communion and do not sit down until all the EM’s have placed the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle. Check the GIRM.

It is not according to the mind of the Church that people should be so rigidly proscribed as this. If some wish to kneel, fine. If they wish to sit, fine too. But making everyone stand like they are in school is daft.

I believe there is a clip on Youtube of Card. Arinze speaking on this subject.

 

[onmyknees]

I never knew people didn’t kneel until I read this thread. I’m always amazed at some of the things people complain about going on during masses because most of those problems are unheard of in most Northeastern parishes. Yet, everyone thinks Northeasterners are a bunch of crazy liberals .

Yes, I am from the Northwest and I always thought that New Yorkers would be pretty liberal. I was pleasantly surprised at their traditional mass. I also noticed their were policemen on foot at some of the corners downtown. And they would were friendly too I loved it! It seemed old fashion which I really liked. So different from where I live. Many of the parishes out here don’t even have kneelers in the Church!: A lot of the Catholic churches were remodeled in the 80’s to be more like Protestant churches. Lots of wood and banners, even projector screen on the wall.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes, I am from the Northwest and I always thought that New Yorkers would be pretty liberal. I was pleasantly surprised at their traditional mass. I also noticed their were policemen on foot at some of the corners downtown. And they would were friendly too I loved it! It seemed old fashion which I really liked. So different from where I live. Many of the parishes out here don’t even have kneelers in the Church!: A lot of the Catholic churches were remodeled in the 80’s to be more like Protestant churches. Lots of wood and banners, even projector screen on the wall.

I’m from the NW too, but our Church is very traditional in Vancouver, WA, although we don’t take communion at the rail as we do in the Dominican church that I attend in Portland, OR, which is even more traditional. Where do you live in the NW?

 

[Nonnovi]

Wow people in Belguim don’t kneel at all? Do they stand? When did this happen?

As far as I know, people here only know sitting and standing. Started in the sixties-seventies I assume. And they also don’t know anymore when to stand and sit. It’s horrible when you hear right after consecration this whoosh-sound when everybody just sits down, not really knowing what just happened at the altar.

If you do kneel during Mass in Belgium, you are a rare exception and looked at with a not understanding wondering.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As far as I know, people here only know sitting and standing. Started in the sixties-seventies I assume. And they also don’t know anymore when to stand and sit. It’s horrible when you hear right after consecration this whoosh-sound when everybody just sits down, not really knowing what just happened at the altar.

If you do kneel during Mass in Belgium, you are a rare exception and looked at with a not understanding wondering.

good for you! Who knows - you might start a trend!

 

[onmyknees]

I’m from the NW too, but our Church is very traditional in Vancouver, WA, although we don’t take communion at the rail as we do in the Dominican church that I attend in Portland, OR, which is even more traditional. Where do you live in the NW?

Yes, I know that Vancouver,Wa is usually more traditional that the big cities. The Dominicans seem to be pretty traditional too. I live near the big city in WA. Are the non-Dominican churches in Portland traditional too?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes, I know that Vancouver,Wa is usually more traditional that the big cities. The Dominicans seem to be pretty traditional too. I live near the big city in WA. Are the non-Dominican churches in Portland traditional too?

I really don’t know about the other churches in Portland. I go to the closest church to my work, and it just happens to be Dominican. (which I am very glad of - it is beautiful!)

My parish church in Vanouver is the oldest Catholic church in the Northwest, it’s quite lovely too. (St. James).

 

[onmyknees]

I really don’t know about the other churches in Portland. I go to the closest church to my work, and it just happens to be Dominican. (which I am very glad of - it is beautiful!)

My parish church in Vanouver is the oldest Catholic church in the Northwest, it’s quite lovely too. (St. James).

Ah! I will have to go to mass there sometime when I am down visiting my sister this summer.

The St. James Cathedral up here is very beautiful too but IMO it was more beautiful before they remodeled and put the altar in the middle of the cathedral with the pews on all four sides. They also took out all the really old confessionals.

 

[Irish_Eyes_826]

It is actually a strange thing. I lived in the North East for a few years. (I think it might also be a difference between suburban and city parishes. It seems that city parishes which or often modeled after Northeastern architecture, often are very quiet, seemingly reverent, do things the same all the time, and everybody is very uniform in their actions, but have more liberal views on morality/theology. While the suburban parishes tend to be more “liberal” in their liturgical practices (and often have Churches to match). (I won’t comment on the morality factor in suburbia as it differs greatly). So it seems that northeasterners have mastered orderliness and quietness making the liturgy reverent and peaceful, and often traditional.

But in my experience the city parish (in NY) I attended, while the normal Masses were great, quiet and reverent, if it was a special Mass (say Easter vigil) you could actually say they were less reverent. No incense, not doing the full set of readings, no sprinkling rite, etc.They hardly did anything different from a normal Mass. It was like we didn’t have liturgical seasons, forget about getting the choir to sing liturgically appropriate hymns. While at suburban parishes, they tend to go all out (often too far) to represent the season. (Think water gun sprinkling rites, sand in the water fonts, awful felt banners, etc, but also good things like incense, baptisms during Mass, long adorations of the Cross, benediction, etc.).

Wow, this is off topic.

Yes, I am from the Northwest and I always thought that New Yorkers would be pretty liberal. I was pleasantly surprised at their traditional mass. I also noticed their were policemen on foot at some of the corners downtown. And they would were friendly too I loved it! It seemed old fashion which I really liked. So different from where I live. Many of the parishes out here don’t even have kneelers in the Church!: A lot of the Catholic churches were remodeled in the 80’s to be more like Protestant churches. Lots of wood and banners, even projector screen on the wall.

Yes, I have the tendency to get off topic pretty fast. I do agree with you both though. I think that parishes in Northeast, especially those in cities (like mine) tend to be older and so some of the things that ruffle so many CAFers’ feathers would just look plain silly in old churches, and in some people’s opinions, silly anywhere, but I won’t go there. We also have a much lower Protestant population, so we tend not to “borrow” their ways of doing things. I’m surprised that holy days were not “done up” in your parish because we usually take them rather seriously up here. I would definitely say that although we are a very secular region, those who do practice Catholicism tend to be pretty traditional, while still being able to fit into secular society. I think we are often seen as people with liberal thinking, but conservative values and who are okay with doing things the “old-fashioned” was. Also, onmyknees, my father, as well as many of my uncles and aunts are cops, so I’m glad you appreciated them, they do work very hard.

 

[jilly4ski]

Yes, I have the tendency to get off topic pretty fast. I do agree with you both though. I think that parishes in Northeast, especially those in cities (like mine) tend to be older and so some of the things that ruffle so many CAFers’ feathers would just look plain silly in old churches, and in some people’s opinions, silly anywhere, but I won’t go there. We also have a much lower Protestant population, so we tend not to “borrow” their ways of doing things. I’m surprised that holy days were not “done up” in your parish because we usually take them rather seriously up here. I would definitely say that although we are a very secular region, those who do practice Catholicism tend to be pretty traditional, while still being able to fit into secular society. I think we are often seen as people with liberal thinking, but conservative values and who are okay with doing things the “old-fashioned” was. Also, onmyknees, my father, as well as many of my uncles and aunts are cops, so I’m glad you appreciated them, they do work very hard.

Lol, me too, considering it was the Cathedral parish. The decorations for the seasons were done well. (we did have one priest, an associate where rose on Laetare Sunday, but he was a polish missionary priest and got moved to Alaska). But usually the liturgy itself wasn’t altered much beyond what was required. I think you are right about the liberal ideas/thinking with conservative values, and doing things out of tradition.

To the topic. The suburban (happy clappy) parish I grew up in, knelt at the correct time during the Angus Dei, but we would stand up before the great Amen. The pastor (the happy clappy pastor), eventually got better instruction for the diocese and actually changed some of these little quirks.

 

[onmyknees]

Yes, I have the tendency to get off topic pretty fast. I do agree with you both though. I think that parishes in Northeast, especially those in cities (like mine) tend to be older and so some of the things that ruffle so many CAFers’ feathers would just look plain silly in old churches, and in some people’s opinions, silly anywhere, but I won’t go there. We also have a much lower Protestant population, so we tend not to “borrow” their ways of doing things. I’m surprised that holy days were not “done up” in your parish because we usually take them rather seriously up here. I would definitely say that although we are a very secular region, those who do practice Catholicism tend to be pretty traditional, while still being able to fit into secular society. I think we are often seen as people with liberal thinking, but conservative values and who are okay with doing things the “old-fashioned” was. Also, onmyknees, my father, as well as many of my uncles and aunts are cops, so I’m glad you appreciated them, they do work very hard.

My parish I go to is not too bad now.

It was really horrible when it was remodeled with wooden statues and a wooden altar. They put the beautiful statues and hid them down in the hall closet. They sold the pews and put in chairs on two sides of the the altar. The people were facing each other. They broke up the marble steps and put in wooden ones with carpet. They took the marble back altar and made it into a shelf for the wooden statue. The tabernacle was designated to the chapel on the side of the church. The stained glass saint windows were replaced with stained glass windows with flowers on them. They took down the choir loft and pipe organ The choir sang up on the altar steps and on the altar like they were performers.

Thank goodness we were assigned a new young orthodox priest who put everything back the way it was and make it more beautiful. Many people left when he did this.

The more orthodox priests which are far and few between here do do up the solemnities, holy days with incense, all bells, holy water, and processions. I love this. It is so reverent. The new priest also started 24hr. Adoration in the chapel
BTW my dh is a police officer but they drive the police cars probably because we are in the suburbs.