Kneeling during Consecration and Elevation of the Holy Eucharist.

[YoungTradCath]

I think you’ve got a good point, but I think you’ve presented that point very poorly. Give examples. First-hand is better than second-hand. Don’t be so accusatory at first. I understand your frustration. In fact, I share much of it.

 

[RelapsingSinner]

Where do you get “the majority” don’t kneel? I’ve only been in one church, in my whole life, that didn’t have kneelers. My parish, and the one I visit about once a month, ALWAYS kneel for the consecration and elevation.

It would be helpful to provide sources when you make such a broad accusation.

Here in Canada. My source is my presence during Holy Mass. I have seen it.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I suggest you dig around and find the Canadian adaptation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, and see if you can find in it which posture is the norm in Canada for the Eucharistic Prayer. Then, if it is kneeling, kindly let Father know. If he doesn’t change and catechize, write a nice letter to His Excellency/Eminence.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Really? So, body language doesn’t mean anything?

Every body posture carries a meaning, and we interpret these meanings by the body posture.

These body signs, body language, posture what ever you want to call them are
universal and not something we ourselves believe to be.

No, they are not universal. They vary from culture to culture and certainly with teaching, a posture can be made to mean something.

 

[RelapsingSinner]

I think you’ve got a good point, but I think you’ve presented that point very poorly. Give examples. First-hand is better than second-hand. Don’t be so accusatory at first. I understand your frustration. In fact, I share much of it.

I don’t accuse anyone. They accuse themselves.
When you speak the truth people listening to you might feel guilty because their conscience
is not according to the truth and they use self defense by accusing you of wrong doing do defend their perverted conscience.

What do you mean, give examples?

 

[RelapsingSinner]

No, they are not universal. They vary from culture to culture and certainly with teaching, a posture can be made to mean something.

Yes they are. How do people in India express happiness?
By putting a cord around their neck or perhaps by twitching their leg muscle?
We smile, they also smile when happy.

 

[ANNE_2]

Bishops, Priests and Lay people must follow the directions in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal.)"
If your Priest disagrees, contact your Diocese Bishop.

QUOTE: " In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should **kneel **beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause.
However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.
The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal." UNQUOTE

Anything else is not correct.

Here is the link.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/roman-missal/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm

For any Catholic Churches without kneelers, ask your Pastor when he will be placing an order for some. No kneelers is not an excuse for the normal congregation.

 

[RelapsingSinner]

I suggest you dig around and find the Canadian adaptation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, and see if you can find in it which posture is the norm in Canada for the Eucharistic Prayer. Then, if it is kneeling, kindly let Father know. If he doesn’t change and catechize, write a nice letter to His Excellency/Eminence.

That is his job and not mine.
His Excellency and His Excellencies, all the Bishops in Canada are introducing changes in the liturgy, including kneeling during the Consecration.
It’s about time to change all the abuses, and the Bishops are changing it because they have realized it was wrong.
I am not sure why it took them so long to realize this.

" In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause.
However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.
The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

I didn’t know about this, I apologize to U.S.A people here. In Canada it is not so, everybody is standing.
Are there any parishes in the U.S. were people abuse the prescribed General Instruction of the Roman Missal?

 

[YoungTradCath]

That is his job and not mine.
His Excellency and His Excellencies, all the Bishops in Canada are introducing changes in the liturgy, including kneeling during the Consecration.
It’s about time to change all the abuses, and the Bishops are changing it because they have realized it was wrong.
I am not sure why it took them so long to realize this.

" In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause.
However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.
The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

I didn’t know about this, I apologize to U.S.A people here. In Canada it is not so, everybody is standing.
Are there any parishes in the U.S. were people abuse the prescribed General Instruction of the Roman Missal?

Well, sure. There are a lot of parishes that are rampant with abuse. But generally not the kneeling one.

And yes, it absolutely is your job to dig around in the GIRM if you’re the one complaining about it. I don’t disagree with you, just telling the truth.

 

[St_Francis]

That is his job and not mine.
His Excellency and His Excellencies, all the Bishops in Canada are introducing changes in the liturgy, including kneeling during the Consecration.
It’s about time to change all the abuses, and the Bishops are changing it because they have realized it was wrong.
I am not sure why it took them so long to realize this.

" In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause.
However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.
The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

I didn’t know about this, I apologize to U.S.A people here. In Canada it is not so, everybody is standing.
Are there any parishes in the U.S. were people abuse the prescribed General Instruction of the Roman Missal?

There is a chapel I attend occasionallt that announces not to kneel at thebeginning of Mass. There are a lot of elderly people who attend Mass there; perhaps ot os for thekr sake, but I kneel anyway. But most everywhere else I’ve been they’ve knelt for the Consecration.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes they are. How do people in India express happiness?
By putting a cord around their neck or perhaps by twitching their leg muscle?
We smile, they also smile when happy.

post hoc ergo propter hoc

Just because there is one thing in common between Indians and Americans, doesn’t mean everything else is the same. Besides, kneeling isn’t even a basic human instinct.

 

[agnes_therese]

Here in Canada. My source is my presence during Holy Mass. I have seen it.

You said “the majority of people in the “Western Catholic World” don’t kneel for the consecration. Even if you’ve attended Mass at every Catholic church in Canada, you haven’t seen “the majority of people.”

 

[Frosty]

That is his job and not mine.
His Excellency and His Excellencies, all the Bishops in Canada are introducing changes in the liturgy, including kneeling during the Consecration.
It’s about time to change all the abuses, and the Bishops are changing it because they have realized it was wrong.
I am not sure why it took them so long to realize this.

" In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause.
However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.
The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

I didn’t know about this, I apologize to U.S.A people here. ** In Canada it is not so, everybody is standing. **Are there any parishes in the U.S. were people abuse the prescribed General Instruction of the Roman Missal?

This is simply not true. In my six decades of life, I have attended Mass in literally hundreds of Catholic Churches from one end of Canada to the other. Never once have I been in any parish where we did not kneel for the Consecration. Never! Of course, I have not been in every single Catholic Church in this country so it may be true that there are some places where the congregation does indeed stand during the Eucharistic Prayer but I have no way of knowing that and therfore would not be so presumptuous as to make such a complete untrue blanket statement {based only on my experience] as did the OP.
In the three dioceses in my province with which I am very familiar, the posture throughout the Mass is exactly the same as is called for in the GIRM adapted for the U.S.A.

 

[MissRose73]

In the diocese I grew up and have lived in most of my life, it is hit or miss whether or not there are kneelers available. I grew up not kneeling for parts of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and knew no better as it was rare to go to a church that had them. When I went to Masses in a large Archdiocese when I moved away from home for a few years, pretty much most churches there have kneelers & kneel during certain parts of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I returned back to my home diocese a few years ago, and still not all churches offer kneelers in any way. I have been making a point to attend Mass only in churches that give that option to kneel with kneelers (as I have bad knees which makes it hard to kneel on hard surfaces) unless I have to go to one that does not for a family thing where no one kneels.

At one of the churches I’ve been frequenting lately, they remodeled the sanctuary with new pews and kneelers. They have a large screen to project the songs and certain responses, with reminders when to kneel or bow as required on the screen that behind the altar. The tabernacle isn’t in the middle right behind the altar but a bit to the side but still visible.

I prefer the EF Mass where I know during a good part of the Mass, there will be kneelers and kneeling in the sanctuary even though there will be times for standing and sitting.

 

[puzzleannie]

Why don’t the majority of people in the “Western Catholic World” kneel during the Consecration and Elevation of the Holy Eucharist? Is it because the majority of them think they are equals to God?

Don’t they sin against justice??

no they do not sin unless they deliberately disobey the priest presiding, the bishop of the place and do so with the intent to deny the Eucharist.

Most people who do not kneel have been directed not to kneel for various reasons, by the priest presiding, the bishop of the place, or other priests, so they don’t kneel because they are obedient.

the rest of us cannot kneel due to various physical limitations. I can kneel, I just can’t get back up unassisted.

I doubt if you have visited the majority of churches in the Catholic world and I doubt you are in a position to judge what Catholics do or don’t do around the world.

 

[MSSheBear]

At my current parish we do not kneel and there are no kneelers. Occasionally someone kneels anyway but there really isn’t room. I would prefer to kneel but quite honestly I need the kneelers as the chairs are too flimsy to pull myself up.

I find that it is easy for me to be more reverent if I kneel during the consecration. But we have been informed that kneeling in church is a modern invention and standing is a sign of reverence.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

It wasn’t because our priest said it was fine for me to do it since I loved the Eucharist so much, and because I am such a cute little ole white haired granny. That is why…

God bless you Prague for loving our Eucharist Lord so much. Sometimes during the Consecration I have the sudden urge to lay down with my face on the floor!

 

[YoungTradCath]

In the diocese I grew up and have lived in most of my life, it is hit or miss whether or not there are kneelers available. I grew up not kneeling for parts of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and knew no better as it was rare to go to a church that had them. When I went to Masses in a large Archdiocese when I moved away from home for a few years, pretty much most churches there have kneelers & kneel during certain parts of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I returned back to my home diocese a few years ago, and still not all churches offer kneelers in any way. I have been making a point to attend Mass only in churches that give that option to kneel with kneelers (as I have bad knees which makes it hard to kneel on hard surfaces) unless I have to go to one that does not for a family thing where no one kneels.

At one of the churches I’ve been frequenting lately, they remodeled the sanctuary with new pews and kneelers. They have a large screen to project the songs and certain responses, with reminders when to kneel or bow as required on the screen that behind the altar. The tabernacle isn’t in the middle right behind the altar but a bit to the side but still visible.

I prefer the EF Mass where I know during a good part of the Mass, there will be kneelers and kneeling in the sanctuary even though there will be times for standing and sitting.

Wait, there’s a screen in the church? Those are not allowed.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I find that it is easy for me to be more reverent if I kneel during the consecration. But we have been informed that kneeling in church is a modern invention and standing is a sign of reverence.

Big lol.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

As a million people have already said I’m fairly confident a minority, not a majority, of parishes in the Western world don’t kneel. Around me if I had to pick a number I’d guess it’s about 10% of parishes, though perhaps that guess is way off.

What no one has mentioned so far, unless I’ve missed it, is the Eastern connection. Several times I’ve asked anti-kneeling priests to explain their position and each time they said something along the lines of kneeling being a penitential posture not appropriate for mass, as reflected in the fact that the Eastern Churches don’t have kneeling at their liturgies. For this reason I think that to some extent it represents an Easternization of the Latin Rite.