Kneeling During Mass

[Maitland]

Hi,

I just moved to the Archdiocese of Portland from the Archdiocese of Vancouver (British Columbia Canada) as a student. Some of the practices in the Archdiocese of Portland are unheard of in Canada. We always kneel after the Sanctus, and after the Agnus Dei. Also, I’ve noticed that parishioners don’t tend to genuflect when entering and exiting the pews and that the entire congregation holds hands during the “Our Father” This makes me feel extremely awkward because that isn’t a practice (some families might hold hands in Canada) that is normal where I’m from.

Could someone please provide me more information as to why the practice is to stand during the communion prayers and about these other practices?

Thanks.

 

[bardegaulois]

What you are witnessing, Maitland, is a liturgical abuse. The mandated posture is that the faithful should kneel during the entirety of the Eucharistic Canon, from the end of the Sanctus to the Amen, as well as during the “Ecce Agnus Dei” and priest’s communion. Genuflecting toward the tabernacle is respectful; not to do so, knowing fully well Who resides there, bespeaks a grave disrespect. As far as this hand-holding goes, it’s not illicit, but makes me squeamish.

Archbishop Sample is an estimable man, and certainly deserves to know about this situation in one of his parishes. A letter to him containing particulars might help ameliorate the situation in that unfortunate place. In the meantime, might I recommend finding another parish to attend in the meantime?

 

[Neofight]

What you are witnessing, Maitland, is a liturgical abuse. The mandated posture is that the faithful should kneel during the entirety of the Eucharistic Canon, from the end of the Sanctus to the Amen, as well as during the “Ecce Agnus Dei” and priest’s communion. Genuflecting toward the tabernacle is respectful; not to do so, knowing fully well Who resides there, bespeaks a grave disrespect. As far as this hand-holding goes, it’s not illicit, but makes me squeamish.

Archbishop Sample is an estimable man, and certainly deserves to know about this situation in one of his parishes. A letter to him containing particulars might help ameliorate the situation in that unfortunate place. In the meantime, might I recommend finding another parish to attend in the meantime?

Please! Your comments are so far off the mark, they are nearly uncharitable, as they are offensive to countless American Dioceses and parishes that stand instead of kneel.

 

[Neofight]

What you are witnessing, Maitland, is a liturgical abuse. The mandated posture is that the faithful should kneel during the entirety of the Eucharistic Canon, from the end of the Sanctus to the Amen, as well as during the “Ecce Agnus Dei” and priest’s communion. Genuflecting toward the tabernacle is respectful; not to do so, knowing fully well Who resides there, bespeaks a grave disrespect. As far as this hand-holding goes, it’s not illicit, but makes me squeamish.

Archbishop Sample is an estimable man, and certainly deserves to know about this situation in one of his parishes. A letter to him containing particulars might help ameliorate the situation in that unfortunate place. In the meantime, might I recommend finding another parish to attend in the meantime?

I hope you are settling into your new surroundings.

You may kneel if you want, or stand. Neither, as the other poster erroneously claims, are irreverent or a liturgical abuse.

Peace

 

[zab]

What you are witnessing, Maitland, is a liturgical abuse. The mandated posture is that the faithful should kneel during the entirety of the Eucharistic Canon, from the end of the Sanctus to the Amen, as well as during the “Ecce Agnus Dei” and priest’s communion. Genuflecting toward the tabernacle is respectful; not to do so, knowing fully well Who resides there, bespeaks a grave disrespect. As far as this hand-holding goes, it’s not illicit, but makes me squeamish.

Archbishop Sample is an estimable man, and certainly deserves to know about this situation in one of his parishes. A letter to him containing particulars might help ameliorate the situation in that unfortunate place. In the meantime, might I recommend finding another parish to attend in the meantime?

The posture for the Archdiocese of Portland is to remain standing after the Agnus Dei. Here is a quote from the policies of the Archdiocese of Portland archdpdx.org/liturgy/documents/girm-local-complete.pdf :
In the dioceses of the United States, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration.
For parishes and institutions where there kneelers are not yet installed, and for liturgies that take place in a building other than a church, catechesis will need to be given regarding the profound bow.
The faithful kneel after Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
**In the Archdiocese of Portland, the faithful stand after the Lamb of God… **

 

[Corki]

Hi,

I just moved to the Archdiocese of Portland from the Archdiocese of Vancouver (British Columbia Canada) as a student. Some of the practices in the Archdiocese of Portland are unheard of in Canada. We always kneel after the Sanctus, and after the Agnus Dei. Also, I’ve noticed that parishioners don’t tend to genuflect when entering and exiting the pews and that the entire congregation holds hands during the “Our Father” This makes me feel extremely awkward because that isn’t a practice (some families might hold hands in Canada) that is normal where I’m from.

Could someone please provide me more information as to why the practice is to stand during the communion prayers and about these other practices?

Thanks.

Baed on what Zab posted, you should kneel after the Sanctus until after the great Amen. Then stand until Communion. If the tabernacle is visible (it isn’t in some Churches), genuflect; otherwise bow to the altar. (The tradition isn’t to genuflect when entering and exiting, it is all about the tabernacle). As for holding hands, it’s neither directed nor prohibited. Hold hands, if you want. Keep your hands folded in prayer if you prefer.

 

[pianistclare]

Often people incur practices that are different than in their home diocese.
Do not let it eat you up and cause feelings of resentment. Nothing is more important than worthy reception of the Eucharist. Put aside what seems odd to you, You are permitted to stand or kneel. Do what you normally do & be at peace.
Don’t fall into the trap of being a “liturgy expert” in the pew.
I work in a parish, and I can tell you, nothing good will come of those feelings.
God bless, and I hope you come to love your new parish home.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

In Cleveland they stand after the Agnus Dei; in Indianapolis they kneel. I go back and forth between the two cities and tend to kneel regardless of whether I’m the only one kneeling or not. No one’s bawled me out yet and if someone does, I’ll say that I prefer to kneel and to let me pray. Back in the 80’s and 90’s I was not so meek in responding to those who would push the Mass into a a series of ridiculous practices and gestures - all in the name of “community”. Those sorts of abuses are far less common today than 20-30 years ago. It varies from parish to parish and diocese to diocese.

 

[phil19034]

Kneeling after the Agnus Dei is mostly a North American thing. It is not universal. After Vatican II, many North American bishops requested that Rome all their dioceses to kneel after the Agnus Dei. Rome has allowed it, as long as the Bishop doesn’t dictate how long you kneel for. (Customs are one thing, but a bishop cannot force you to kneel until the tabernacle is closed – even though that’s what I do)

The only places where the Liturgy is specific that we must kneel is during all the parts the Deacon kneels. However, bishops can request for more kneeling.

There is a Catholic Answers Live episode where this is discussed (it’s was on Vatican II, not too long ago)

God Bless

 

[victrolatim]

I thought that standing through the Canon was replaced with kneeling when the revisions/new translation came out a few years back (at least that’s what happened in my diocese). I can attest to the fact that when you travel to different parishes you are going to find different practices. I have been traveling around my diocese lately to visit all of our churches and I can tell you that not one Mass is exactly the same as another. I’ve seen many things that seem odd to me that are not abuses by any means, some perhaps illicit, but not so much to call into question the validity of the sacrament. There are still a lot of parishes around here that seem very “stuck in the 70s/80s”.

 

[phil19034]

I thought that standing through the Canon was replaced with kneeling when the revisions/new translation came out a few years back (at least that’s what happened in my diocese). I can attest to the fact that when you travel to different parishes you are going to find different practices. I have been traveling around my diocese lately to visit all of our churches and I can tell you that not one Mass is exactly the same as another. I’ve seen many things that seem odd to me that are not abuses by any means, some perhaps illicit, but not so much to call into question the validity of the sacrament. There are still a lot of parishes around here that seem very “stuck in the 70s/80s”.

Kneeling is the standard according to the USCCB. So perhaps your diocese use the new translation as a method to introduce the kneeling?

Unless I’m mistaken, kneeling after the Lamb of God still isn’t in the Liturgy.

 

[Phemie]

Kneeling is the standard according to the USCCB. So perhaps your diocese use the new translation as a method to introduce the kneeling?

Unless I’m mistaken, kneeling after the Lamb of God still isn’t in the Liturgy.

In the US kneeling after the Lamb of God is mandated UNLESS the diocesan bishop mandates standing.

The universal GIRM mandates kneeling only at the Consecration but adds that in those parishes where they have knelt for all of the Eucharistic Prayer and after the Lamb og God it is laudable that they keep uo the practice.

In Canada the CCCB follws the universal GIRM so bishops and priest seem free to require kneeling from their flock.

 

[Sunbreak]

In practice, all parishes in Portland don’t do things the way the poster described and not all parishes do the hand holding thing. I think Maitland, that you may have to visit some other parishes if you live in the Portland metro area. If you are further out, you may not have much choice. In the Portland you can try Holy Rosary, St. Birgitta, St. Stanislaus to name a few I know of.

 

[MissRose73]

In my diocese, if there are chairs only with no kneelers or pews with kneelers, we are allowed to stand instead of kneel during certain segments of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Most do not kneel without the help of a kneeler for any number of reasons.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Hi,

I just moved to the Archdiocese of Portland from the Archdiocese of Vancouver (British Columbia Canada) as a student. Some of the practices in the Archdiocese of Portland are unheard of in Canada. We always kneel after the Sanctus, and after the Agnus Dei. Also, I’ve noticed that parishioners don’t tend to genuflect when entering and exiting the pews and that the entire congregation holds hands during the “Our Father” This makes me feel extremely awkward because that isn’t a practice (some families might hold hands in Canada) that is normal where I’m from.

Could someone please provide me more information as to why the practice is to stand during the communion prayers and about these other practices?

Thanks.

Actually, the behaviours you see in Portland are alive and well in Canada. In some parts of Canada, there is even the directive to remain standing after receiving communion.

The postures are not rigid, so if you want to kneel, kneel. Most people don’t genuflect, but that’s only required if the Tabernacle is in the Sanctuary, and Jesus is in it, which it isn’t in most places. Otherwise it’s a profound bow to the altar.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

In my diocese, if there are chairs only with no kneelers or pews with kneelers, we are allowed to stand instead of kneel during certain segments of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Most do not kneel without the help of a kneeler for any number of reasons.

I went to a church with cushy pews and no kneelers after not having been to Mass for some years. I was confused as to why no one was kneeling on the floor. The idea of only kneeling if there are knee lets never crossed my mind.

 

[Corki]

I went to a church with cushy pews and no kneelers after not having been to Mass for some years. I was confused as to why no one was kneeling on the floor. The idea of only kneeling if there are knee lets never crossed my mind.

The closest geographic parish to me is meeting temporarily in a school gym while major work is being done on the church building. The parish where I most regularly attend doesn’t have kneelers, just chairs. In both cases, everyone who can do so without serious issues still kneels at the appointed times.

I have also been to some Masses with folding chairs where the rows were placed so close together that everyone trying to kneel at the same time would have been a real mess. An announcement was made to please remain standing and to bow for the Consecration rather than kneel.

Lack of kneelers** by itself **is not a reason to stand rather than kneel. But it can be a contributing factor.