Kneeling during the Eucharist

[olivemoeono]

Is kneeling during the Eucharist (when the priest is changing the bread and water to Body and blood of christ) essential to the catholic way?Forgive me if I don’t explain this right but ever since I was little and going to Mass it has always been the norm for everybody to kneel when the Priest is preparing the Eucharist, Until I attended a mass at a catholic church where they had refrained from kneeling during lent one Easter and remained standing because the Priest said to (I forget what his reason was but it had to do with lent and Easter) but ever since then the majority of people there donot kneel anymore when it comes to that part of the mass and the priest that is there now doesn’t seem to say anything.(The priest that had told the people to stand instead of kneel is not there anymore)This has been going on for a few years now and even when it is not Lent season.
I personally believe we should kneel in reverence to what is happening right before our eyes with the priest changing Bread and Water into the Body and Blood of our Lord unless you physically cannot(e.g old age,disabled)It’s just got me wondering is it a Personal Choice whether to stand or kneel and is it o.kay for catholics to stand during that part of Mass?Is there anything in the church that says something about that?

 

[Tietjen]

Personal Choice whether to stand or kneel and is it o.kay for catholics to stand during that part of Mass?Is there anything in the church that says something about that?

Yes it does… and we should be kneeling. I would suggest that you speak privately with your Priest about this and if it is not corrected, you bring it to the attention of your Bishop. Below is taken straight from the G.I.R.M.
General Instruction of the Roman Missal #43:

43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest
approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.
They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.
In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

 

[japhy]

Is kneeling during the Eucharist (when the priest is changing the bread and water to Body and blood of christ) essential to the catholic way? Forgive me if I don’t explain this right but ever since I was little and going to Mass it has always been the norm for everybody to kneel when the Priest is preparing the Eucharist, Until I attended a mass at a catholic church where they had refrained from kneeling during lent one Easter and remained standing because the Priest said to… Is there anything in the church that says something about that?

In the Latin Rite (and I think most of the Western Rites of the Catholic Church) the proper posture during the Eucharistic Prayer (which includes the consecration, when the bread and wine become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ) is kneeling. It says so in the General Instruction (the GIRM). The GIRM explains a couple reasons why people might not kneel – health issues, space issues – but the norm is kneeling. Those who can’t kneel should make a profound bow during the consecration.

A priest has NO RIGHT to tell people NOT to kneel for the E.P.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Is kneeling during the Eucharist (when the priest is changing the bread and water to Body and blood of christ) essential to the catholic way?Forgive me if I don’t explain this right but ever since I was little and going to Mass it has always been the norm for everybody to kneel when the Priest is preparing the Eucharist, Until I attended a mass at a catholic church where they had refrained from kneeling during lent one Easter and remained standing because the Priest said to (I forget what his reason was but it had to do with lent and Easter) but ever since then the majority of people there donot kneel anymore when it comes to that part of the mass and the priest that is there now doesn’t seem to say anything.(The priest that had told the people to stand instead of kneel is not there anymore)This has been going on for a few years now and even when it is not Lent season.
I personally believe we should kneel in reverence to what is happening right before our eyes with the priest changing Bread and Water into the Body and Blood of our Lord unless you physically cannot(e.g old age,disabled)It’s just got me wondering is it a Personal Choice whether to stand or kneel and is it o.kay for catholics to stand during that part of Mass?Is there anything in the church that says something about that?

“Is it the Catholic Way?” It is the normal posture in the Roman or Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, but is not the normal posture in many of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, although it is in some.

 

[Heckesh]

The fact is they don’t kneel throughout the world in the Latin Rite for the consecration:

GIRM 43 *In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. *

Yes they should knee in the USA, but if there is a good reason for them not to, then they do not.

 

[John_Lilburne]

… A priest has NO RIGHT to tell people NOT to kneel for the E.P.

The priest has a duty in this.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“43. … With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.”

He has a decision to make, given the wide range of exceptions to kneeling expressed in the GIRM “… except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

So saying a priest has no right to direct people to stand for the Eucharist Prayer is contrary to the GIRM.

 

[otjm]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :

He has a decision to make, given the wide range of exceptions to kneeling expressed in the GIRM “… except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

So saying a priest has no right to direct people to stand for the Eucharist Prayer is contrary to the GIRM.

well, the camel got its nose under the tent flap with the part you set forth and I underlined. I suspect that in any and every parish that stands during the Eucharistic Prayer, this last little bit is used for the legal justification.

 

[John_Lilburne]

well, the camel got its nose under the tent flap with the part you set forth and I underlined. I suspect that in any and every parish that stands during the Eucharistic Prayer, this last little bit is used for the legal justification.

I suspect so. In Australia the GIRM has been approved with different end to n. 43:
“In Australia apart from what is said above, the people are to sit from the Preparation of the Gifts until the completion of the priest’s invitation Orate fratres, and then stand from the beginning of the people’s response: “May the Lord accept…” to the end of the Sanctus. They then kneel from the completion of the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and then stand from the beginning of the invitation of the Lord’s Prayer until the completion of the Agnus Dei, …”.
(See acbc.catholic.org.au/bc/liturgy/200707031933.htm and click on “Printable Version” to download a PDF of the GIRM for Australia).

 

[otjm]

I suspect so. In Australia the GIRM has been approved with different end to n. 43:
“In Australia apart from what is said above, the people are to sit from the Preparation of the Gifts until the completion of the priest’s invitation Orate fratres, and then stand from the beginning of the people’s response: “May the Lord accept…” to the end of the Sanctus. They then kneel from the completion of the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and then stand from the beginning of the invitation of the Lord’s Prayer until the completion of the Agnus Dei, …”.
(See acbc.catholic.org.au/bc/liturgy/200707031933.htm and click on “Printable Version” to download a PDF of the GIRM for Australia).

Yeah, but they have koala bears and dingos and wallbies too.

 

[diana_fiacre]

I think a few key words are : ON OCCASION. That doesn’t mean the priest can make a habit of it.

 

[diana_fiacre]

Hechesh,

In the Latin Rite, the congregation should kneel for the CONSECRATION. Only in the US do we kneel for the entire Eucharistic prayer, including the consecration. There is a difference.

 

[otjm]

I think a few key words are : ON OCCASION. That doesn’t mean the priest can make a habit of it.

I forget what percentage of information a person retains when reading a document once; is suspect the two words you note are a part of the information that is not retained…

In short, I suspect that a goodly number of priests who have everyone stand are not intentionally openly defiant. Like most people, they look at issues with their own set of blinders. when someone takes a poke at them, they respond, as most other people do, defensively, rather than with an open mind (and heart). and while we are critiquing their failure to follow the GIRM, et. al., we might take a look at where we, too, may have blinders on and something less than an open mind - or heart.

I do not suggest they are right, or that it should be ignored; simply that we, too have issues.

 

[benedictgal]

I suspect so. In Australia the GIRM has been approved with different end to n. 43:
“In Australia apart from what is said above, the people are to sit from the Preparation of the Gifts until the completion of the priest’s invitation Orate fratres, and then stand from the beginning of the people’s response: “May the Lord accept…” to the end of the Sanctus. They then kneel from the completion of the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and then stand from the beginning of the invitation of the Lord’s Prayer until the completion of the Agnus Dei, …”.
(See acbc.catholic.org.au/bc/liturgy/200707031933.htm and click on “Printable Version” to download a PDF of the GIRM for Australia).

John, that’s all good and well for Australia, but, in the United States, the adaptation under the GIRM is that we kneel from after the Sanctus to the Great Amen (inclusive). We stand for the Pater Noster.

Furthermore, Cardinal Arinze has this to say on the subject:

The rule from Rome would sanction where the bishops said, “in our country we want people to kneel throughout the consecration”. From our office in Rome we will support that. So it is a bit different. But sometimes during the consecration – suppose it is open-air or it rained and it is muddy – you could not kneel there. But in the normal church it is possible to kneel.

And that’s the normal thing: to kneel during the consecration – and even, as in this country, to kneel from the beginning – just before consecration – right down to just before the Our Father. And that is okay.

Where a particular person cannot kneel – you have arthritis or you are a mother holding a baby – that is understood.

Therefore, if Rome affirms this, then, it is rightfull so for the faithful to kneel during the Eucharistic Prayer.

 

[mdgspencer]

I would think the question is whether it is right or proper. To say it is normal is a different matter, and Eastern rite Catholics, for example, according to my knowledge, stand then. However, liturgical law for Latin rite worship in the U.S. requires the faithful kneel during the consecration. What do then when others stand at the direction of the priest? Since as far as I know, the Church has never said what to do at mass in the face of liturgical irregularities, it would seem to be up to a person’s judgement whether to kneel then, or to stand, perhaps out of a desire to avoid embarrasment about being the only person doing something different. In my case, one time I was at a mass where the priest gave a long exortation before the mass to stand during the eucharistic prayer, giving many reasons why this is better. But I knelt anyways, without worrying what anyone else did.

 

[japhy]

However, liturgical law for Latin rite worship in the U.S. requires the faithful kneel during the consecration.

And if kneeling is not possible, to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects. Do the parishes where standing is the norm do that? (Does the priest even genuflect?)

 

[Phemie]

And if kneeling is not possible, to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects. Do the parishes where standing is the norm do that? (Does the priest even genuflect?)

I bow because I’ve read the GIRM, but the parish has not been thus instructed. And no, the priest doesn’t genuflect.

 

[Phemie]

John, that’s all good and well for Australia, but, in the United States, the adaptation under the GIRM is that we kneel from after the Sanctus to the Great Amen (inclusive). We stand for the Pater Noster.

Furthermore, Cardinal Arinze has this to say on the subject:

Therefore, if Rome affirms this, then, it is rightfull so for the faithful to kneel during the Eucharistic Prayer.

I feel like I’m listening to a comedy skit.
I’ve read the excerpts 3 times and aren’t you both doing exactly the same thing?

John:In Australia they then kneel from the completion of the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and then stand from the beginning of the invitation of the Lord’s Prayer until the completion of the Agnus Dei, …".

Benedictgal: that’s all good and well for Australia, but, in the United States, the adaptation under the GIRM is that we kneel from after the Sanctus to the Great Amen (inclusive). We stand for the Pater Noster.

 

[japhy]

I bow because I’ve read the GIRM, but the parish has not been thus instructed. And no, the priest doesn’t genuflect.

You’re kidding me. The priest makes no genuflection after the consecrations? Is he elderly? Bad knees?

Everyone stands, no one’s been taught to bow, the priest doesn’t genuflect. Your parish needs a prayer group dedicated to making reparations for abuses against the Most Blessed Sacrament.

 

[Phemie]

You’re kidding me. The priest makes no genuflection after the consecrations? Is he elderly? Bad knees?

Everyone stands, no one’s been taught to bow, the priest doesn’t genuflect. Your parish needs a prayer group dedicated to making reparations for abuses against the Most Blessed Sacrament.

He’s not elderly or infirm, and neither are the other members of his order who celebrate in our community and 95% of them don’t genuflect either. The only priests of that order that I’ve seen genuflect are the ones who were ordained pre Vat. II, and THEY are elderly, and the ones who came here from Poland.

 

[SMHW]

And if kneeling is not possible, to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects. Do the parishes where standing is the norm do that? (Does the priest even genuflect?)

Some do. Or I should say I know of at least one where (most) parishioners make a profound bow and the priest genuflects.