Kneeling during the Sanctus, Our Father, and Sign of Peace at an Ordinary Form Mass

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LilyPearls

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On Sundays I attend the EF Mass, on weekdays schedule permitting I attend an OF Mass. When I’m at the EF Mass I wear a mantilla and sit, stand and kneel with everyone else. I don’t know the name for the rules or outline or whatever it’s called for the postures and customs of the laity during Mass. But when at an EF Mass, I do things the EF way lol.

Today the priest did not show up to celebrate the EF Mass and another could not be found so we the congregation were all informed of the next two closest Masses, both of which would be in the OF. So of course I went to one of them, and just as I do on weekdays when at the OF I did not wear a mantilla and I followed the postures and customs that are normal at this type of Mass. But I noticed some of my fellow Sunday EFers there and I noticed someone choosing to to kneel during the Sanctus, the Our Father and the Sign of Peace instead of joining the congregation.

I’ve seen others kneel at these times during Mass before, but I’m not really sure why people do this. I can understand that to some it might feel very irreverent to Jesus on the Altar to not be kneeling before Him or to ignore His presence there when giving the sign of peace to our neighbours. I’ve been thinking that it’s better to do things the OF way when at an OF Mass. The priest is supposed to follow the rubrics of the Mass to the letter, why shouldn’t the laity do their own part to the best of their ability as well? Sometimes I want to kneel from the Sanctus to when I go to receive Our Lord but… I’m just torn about it.

Do any of you here choose to kneel during this part of the Mass? If you do, why?

Thanks! :flowers:
 
Da Rulz say stand for the Our Father and don’t kneel again until after the Agnus Dei. So that’s what I do.
 
There are exceptions to da rulz. Take, for example, a Byzantine Catholic who can’t get to a Divine Liturgy, so he attends the Roman rite Mass. An understanding pastor will encourage him to maintain certain customs which pertain to his spirituality (e.g., the way he crosses himself, making prostrations, etc.). Similarly, I think someone who regularly attends the EF can legitimately maintain his spirituality at an OF, provided he is respectful of others and not disruptive.
 
If, since, and when the two Masses are equal:

“Do the red, say the black” for each. They’re both different.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
There are exceptions to da rulz. Take, for example, a Byzantine Catholic who can’t get to a Divine Liturgy, so he attends the Roman rite Mass. An understanding pastor will encourage him to maintain certain customs which pertain to his spirituality (e.g., the way he crosses himself, making prostrations, etc.). Similarly, I think someone who regularly attends the EF can legitimately maintain his spirituality at an OF, provided he is respectful of others and not disruptive.
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The priests which I know who do both the OF and EF seem to be tolerant of the congregation posture during those times.
 
When at an EF Mass follow the rubric/customs; and when at an OF follow the rubrics, such as they are.

I find it more satisfying to just have an alternate plan for the EF (a second location, which means an additional 100 miles).
 
Ad_Orientem said:
There are exceptions to da rulz. Take, for example, a Byzantine Catholic who can’t get to a Divine Liturgy, so he attends the Roman rite Mass. An understanding pastor will encourage him to maintain certain customs which pertain to his spirituality (e.g., the way he crosses himself, making prostrations, etc.). Similarly, I think someone who regularly attends the EF can legitimately maintain his spirituality at an OF, provided he is respectful of others and not disruptive.
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That is a good point. But it makes me wonder about those people who never attend the EF yet always kneel from the Sanctus to Communion. There’s a reason we’re all supposed to kneel at the same time and do whatever else at the same time. We’re praying as a community. So, one time visitors aside, at what point does saying “I’m not going to follow da rulz because it’s my spirituality to do something else” become disrespectful and perhaps a little silly. I suppose it’s very hard to say because one person could choose to kneel for an entirely different reason than another, and who can say what’s in another person’s heart? Who are we to judge? But there’s gotta be a point where obedience comes into play.

Reminds me of one time I was at an OF Mass at a Cathedral and the congregation did not kneel at exactly the correct time, we always knelt only a few seconds before we were supposed to so one day Fr was just fed up with it so he stopped the Mass, told everyone to get up, explained to everyone that we’re supposed to kneel when he lowers his hands and NOT before. Oh he seemed so annoyed. But we all had it right after that experience… So anyways, apparently these things matter.
 
You make really good points too.

The story you relate is surprising; I’ve never heard of a priest interrupting the Mass for something that trivial.
 
Liturgical instructions from Rome are not trivial by any means, but in my opinion the infraction described sounds trivial, or at least not grave matter. Then again, I don’t know all the circumstances.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
Liturgical instructions from Rome are not trivial by any means, but in my opinion the infraction described sounds trivial, or at least not grave matter. Then again, I don’t know all the circumstances.
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are only grave matters to be corrected?
 
otjm said:
are only grave matters to be corrected?
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Of course they should be corrected, but for something as minor as kneeling a few seconds too early, perhaps consistent reminders in the bulletin or an announcement before or after the Mass would have done the job and been less disruptive. I was once in a parish in which everybody got up during the Great Amen, instead of after. When the priest finally decided to correct it, he didn’t need to correct everybody in the middle on the Mass.
 
LilyPearls said:
On Sundays I attend the EF Mass, on weekdays schedule permitting I attend an OF Mass. When I’m at the EF Mass I wear a mantilla and sit, stand and kneel with everyone else. I don’t know the name for the rules or outline or whatever it’s called for the postures and customs of the laity during Mass. But when at an EF Mass, I do things the EF way lol.

Today the priest did not show up to celebrate the EF Mass and another could not be found so we the congregation were all informed of the next two closest Masses, both of which would be in the OF. So of course I went to one of them, and just as I do on weekdays when at the OF I did not wear a mantilla and I followed the postures and customs that are normal at this type of Mass. But I noticed some of my fellow Sunday EFers there and I noticed someone choosing to to kneel during the Sanctus, the Our Father and the Sign of Peace instead of joining the congregation.

I’ve seen others kneel at these times during Mass before, but I’m not really sure why people do this. I can understand that to some it might feel very irreverent to Jesus on the Altar to not be kneeling before Him or to ignore His presence there when giving the sign of peace to our neighbours. I’ve been thinking that it’s better to do things the OF way when at an OF Mass. The priest is supposed to follow the rubrics of the Mass to the letter, why shouldn’t the laity do their own part to the best of their ability as well? Sometimes I want to kneel from the Sanctus to when I go to receive Our Lord but… I’m just torn about it.

Do any of you here choose to kneel during this part of the Mass? If you do, why?

Thanks! :flowers:
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I would say that you are absolutely right. We need to respect and obey our Church. Thank you for being a good example to all of us.
 
If the rubrics direct something different from the OF to the EF, the Roman Rite Catholic should follow the postures set for the Mass they’re attending, respectively, as both the EF and OF are equal and both Masses have rubrics clearly laid out for both. This demonstrates unity in the Roman Church.

Because they come from sui juris Churches, not just a different “form” of the Mass under the Roman Rite, the Eastern Catholics are not required to adhere to the postures of either Mass. This demonstrates unity in the world wide Church.

I hope I’m understanding your question.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
There are exceptions to da rulz. Take, for example, a Byzantine Catholic who can’t get to a Divine Liturgy, so he attends the Roman rite Mass. An understanding pastor will encourage him to maintain certain customs which pertain to his spirituality (e.g., the way he crosses himself, making prostrations, etc.). Similarly, I think someone who regularly attends the EF can legitimately maintain his spirituality at an OF, provided he is respectful of others and not disruptive.
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If I attended an Eastern liturgy I would follow all their customs. I am a Latin. I would consider it an exercise in appreciating legitimate differences in spirituality.

PS: I would not kneel at these times in the OF.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
You make really good points too.

The story you relate is surprising; I’ve never heard of a priest interrupting the Mass for something that trivial.
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Yeah, it was a surprise for me too and I’ve never seen this happen anywhere since. Disrupting Mass was probably a little overkill but in my uneducated opinion it’s better than saying nothing at all. In the current parish I go to for daily Mass, when the priest is walking from behind the altar to his seat half the congregation sits when he leaves the altar and half the congregation waits for him to sit in his chair before they themselves sit. The lack of unity in this one small matter drives me up the wall. Some days I find myself wishing the priest would stop and say something to us about this. But he doesn’t and likely won’t so I take my grating annoyance as a penance; I’m incredibly impatient sometimes so I keep my mouth shut and do what I’m supposed to, trying to mind my own business.
Miserissima said:
I hope I’m understanding your question.
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It seems you do. 🙂 What you say make’s perfect sense.
 
A word of explanation on my post #2: The OF is the only form that is available to me, so those rules are familiar to me, and they are what I follow. I have been to a couple of Maronite liturgies, and in those cases I just followed the crowd. And if at our own parish someone next to me is kneeling when I (following da Rulz) am standing, I am NOT going to poke him in the zadnitsa to get him to stand up, too :bigyikes: I hope that I did not give that impression.
 
Miserissima said:
Because they come from sui juris Churches, not just a different “form” of the Mass under the Roman Rite, the Eastern Catholics are not required to adhere to the postures of either Mass. This demonstrates unity in the world wide Church.
Click to expand...
Unless I’m reading you wrongly, I’d say this is physically impossible.
 
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