But why? Why should they have to watch carefully for the lone person or the lone two or three throwing a kink in the works? I know it’s done out of reverence (I assume that it’s done out of reverence, I should say), but it does oppose a norm in this country approved by the Holy See.
THAT is exactly how my parish is, short of the kneelers being nailed down. Our Altar boys move the kneelers just before communion and move them away after. People choose to stand, people choose to kneel. All are welcome and no one feels that one way or the other is guided by ego.Yesterday evening, I went to a Mass for the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
This particular Parish(all of the Masses are Novus Ordo) recently installed two kneelers up front(they are nailed to the floor, I checked), for those who wish to kneel to receive Holy Communion. I mentioned this to the Priest afterward, and he said that some people had told him that they wanted to kneel to receive Holy Communion, but found it difficult, because there wasn’t anything to hold on to. So Father put these kneelers up front.
During the distribution of Holy Communion, Father stood with the Consecrated Hosts behind one kneeler, and a lay person stood with more Consecrated Hosts behind the other kneeler. In addition, there also was the Deacon with one Chalice, and a lay person with another Chalice. These two people stood off to the side of each kneeler, but there were no kneelers in front of the people with the Chalices.
So in order to receive the Consecrated Host, at this Parish you must walk up to a kneeler, but you do NOT have to kneel. Father says that people there are not forced to kneel, but those who wish to kneel are provided with help to do so.
There are many more Vatican documents than just the GIRM.I’ve got to admit, I find it humerous that the folks who kneel often seem to be the ones crying the loudest about the holding hands in the Our Father - and vice versa. Neither is specified in the GIRM.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hang on there, GoLatin, you’ll have to argue that better. I’m not a charismatic myself and I’ve not all that comfortable with it (actually, I’m not at all comfortable with it), but it seems to me that 2 popes (Paul VI and JPtheGreat) said it was hunky-dorry (in papal speak) and that and the orans loom large in that particular brand of sprituality. AND for some, hold hands to make a daisy chain and holding their mitts palms up to the sky IS an act of reverence, just as much as kneelers think kneeling is an act of reverence. So really we can only fall back on what the Church says, to whit: holding hands at the Pater Noster is not the best idea, unless it’s natural and those who don’t do it cannot be made to feel like the Grinch who stole Christmas. BUT NOTE: that’s not a subjective opinion, that’s what passes for an ecclesiastical fact. It’s also an ecclesiastical fact that those who kneel cannot be imposed upon, nor called disobedient. FURTHER, it’s an ecclesiastical fact that while the former is true, neither is there a command for accommodation for those non-imposed upon, non-disobedient kneelers. Try not to get trodden on.Kneeling is an act of reverence. Holding hands during the Our Father is charismatic, and a really bad idea!
JKirkLVNV said:
No idea. When our pastor told us to bow, we bowed, instead of genuflecting. No one genuflects when processing to communion in my parish (like they do on EWTN?). We bow before the Blessed Sacrament, held by priest or EMHC.
Thanks!
netmil(name removed by moderator)… I see that you have surpassed 2000 posts
All but 3 of them were very good
I would have called for a celebration, but no one wanted to hold my hand.
I can’t agree that is true, but for argument sake kneeling has been the standard for centuries within the mass. Holding hands is an innovation. Rome has specfically “ruled” on kneeling. Has Rome ruled on hand holding?I’ve got to admit, I find it humerous that the folks who kneel often seem to be the ones crying the loudest about the holding hands in the Our Father - and vice versa. Neither is specified in the GIRM.
Not a “liturgical” gesture, not forbidden for those who do it naturally or spontaneously, ie, families, spouses, beloveds (I think), etc. Those of us cranks who don’t want to do it can’t be imposed upon.
Well, what about a situation where everyone is instructed to hold hands and all up at the altar, deacon, priest, all, hold hands?
Oh Thank You!
Sorry, You are right… it was your post that didn’t cut it
That only happens in LA, at the Cathedral, before they set fire to a virgin.
Yes, actually bowing the head is the norm, although I’ve not seen anyone corrected for genuflecting (nor do I think they should be.).
Unfortunately I don’t think there are many parishes with enough priests and deacons to accomplish that. We certainly don’t have them where I hail from. 
Actually, I think we do both agree that we’d like to see masses where people can express themselves reverently without causing anyone else to feel out of place.
It happens in my parish every Sunday.
I should clarify: We bow when receiving communion “in procession” (as opposed to rec. while kneeling). We genuflect at all the other standard times, ie, before sliding into our pews.
OK I’ll bite. what exactly are the reasons for this norm? I’ve never seen a rationale for the practice except that the Bishops wanted it. And please don’t bring up the primitive church argument again. The primitive church had a lot of things we no longer do or would even consider doing.