Kneeling for Communion?

[zab]

That is correct, he does not have that authority.

And neither do the children’s parents, for that matter.

The Vatican has given that authority to the individual communicant.

I’m sure Father would not refuse to give Communion to someone who chose to stand and to receive in the hand. I can remember when First Communicants were all taught to receive in the hand. They also were told that they could later choose which option they wanted. Two wrongs don’t make a right, that’s true. But do you suppose that it is ok to make it a little easier choice perhaps for that First Communicant who would like to receive on the tongue by having a prie dieu provided ? As far as I know, there have been no complaints.

 

[Brendan]

I’m sure Father would not refuse to give Communion to someone who chose to stand and to receive in the hand.

Glad to hear!

I can remember when First Communicants were all taught to receive in the hand. They also were told that they could later choose which option they wanted. Two wrongs don’t make a right, that’s true.

My daughter recently made her First Holy Communion at a different parish, with her cousin.

The kids there had all been taught to receive in the hand. At our parish, communion at the rail is most common (but again not required). At our parish, Communion is offered intincted by the priest, which means that there is no licit option to receive in the hand.

So all my daughter had any real experience seeing was Communion on the tongue. I did inform her that she could receive either in the hand, or on the tongue. She preferred on the tongue, but that confused the DRE at the other parish. Fortunately, the pastor was present for the rehearsal, and assured my daughter that on the tongue was fine

But do you suppose that it is ok to make it a little easier choice perhaps for that First Communicant who would like to receive on the tongue by having a prie dieu provided ? As far as I know, there have been no complaints.

I think that is a great idea , it would certainly help bring the communicant up to a level that is convient for the priest.

 

[InThePew]

Where did you get the idea that they stood, the rubrics of the Mass have been well documented for centuries.

People stood because churches didn’t have pews (let alone kneelers) - admittedly, this is going back quite a few centuries, but this can be seen in some of the historical churches in Europe. as far as rubrics are concerned, what needs to be remembered is that pre-Trent particular, the Roman rite (that is, as used in Rome) was far from the only rite in use in the Western church, with a variety of other rites is use in local diocese and amongst some orders.

 

[Brendan]

People stood because churches didn’t have pews (let alone kneelers) -.

They still knelt, regardless of the presence of kneelers. Heck people still do that in a lot of the Third World. I am a regular visitor to rural African and have attended a LOT of Masses there. They might lay down a cloth under their knees to keep their good Church clothes clean from the dirty (or just plain dirt) floor, but they still kneel. Kneeling at Mass without a kneeler is very much a modern ‘First World problem’

And yes, I am quite aware of the Western Rites, other than Roman. They had several differences, but mostly those were on the clerical side. The position of the populace during the items I mentioned remained the same. They knelt (on the floor) until the Gloria, they stood for the readings and the Gospel, the knelt for the Consecration and after receiving Holy Communion and stood for the Dismissal.

That was all true in the Sarium, the Dominican, the Celtic, the Ambrosian Rites and all the pre-Trent local variations.

 

[zab]

Glad to hear!

I think that is a great idea , it would certainly help bring the communicant up to a level that is convient for the priest.

Our pastor still wants to reinstall the communion rail but so far our bishop has not allowed it. I forget the reason. It is not an historical church. It was built in 1953 but it did originally have a Communion rail. The Bishop has allowed other historical churches to reinstall the Communion rail. (Maybe I should say that I noticed another historical church reinstalled a Communion rail during their restoration. However, since it is the proto-Cathedral of our Archdiocese, it does have some historical significance. I just assumed permission was granted.) But as far as the prie dieu being put out, that was only for the First Communicants, not the rest of the congregation. The kneelers are also put out for the EF Masses.

 

[BartholomewB]

They still knelt, regardless of the presence of kneelers. Heck people still do that in a lot of the Third World. I am a regular visitor to rural African and have attended a LOT of Masses there. They might lay down a cloth under their knees to keep their good Church clothes clean from the dirty (or just plain dirt) floor, but they still kneel. Kneeling at Mass without a kneeler is very much a modern ‘First World problem’

And yes, I am quite aware of the Western Rites, other than Roman. They had several differences, but mostly those were on the clerical side. The position of the populace during the items I mentioned remained the same. They knelt (on the floor) until the Gloria, they stood for the readings and the Gospel, the knelt for the Consecration and after receiving Holy Communion and stood for the Dismissal.

That was all true in the Sarium, the Dominican, the Celtic, the Ambrosian Rites and all the pre-Trent local variations.

I’ve never seen kneelers in any church here in Brazil. We just kneel on the floor. I wonder whether it’s because it’s a warmer climate. In a place where the temperature never drops below 40, the floor is never too cold to kneel on.

 

[JakeWI]

I have been to some pretty traditional Parishes in our Archdiocese. One is full on Extraordinary Mass, the other is Ordinary in English… both relatively close to each other. Both, however, have communion rails. The women cover their heads in vails (even the younger women in their 20’s and 30’s). The communion rails get used by everyone. It is definitely a different experience, but it does feel really special. The separation between the ordinary and the sacred, the kneeling and receiving on my tongue.

I learned that the Parish I belong to used to have an altar rail (the church was built in 1963, so it must have been the tail end of churches being built with one). I actually could see the areas where it used to stand.

 

[InThePew]

They still knelt, regardless of the presence of kneelers. Heck people still do that in a lot of the Third World. I am a regular visitor to rural African and have attended a LOT of Masses there. They might lay down a cloth under their knees to keep their good Church clothes clean from the dirty (or just plain dirt) floor, but they still kneel. Kneeling at Mass without a kneeler is very much a modern ‘First World problem’ .

Interesting - from memory, the Orthodox stand throughout, while at least some Eastern-Rites kneel, at least during the consecration. For what it’s worth - I kneel during the consecration and receiving the eucharist standing. Still, there a risk that we can end up imitating the Pharisees by becoming too fixated on the “correct” liturgical posture, at the expense of the correct disposition. Both standing and kneeling are, in their own way, equally as reverent and, as many previous posters have pointed out, considered equally appropriate by the Church. Granted, I’d prefer to kneel during the consecration, rather than stand, and would likely run into difficulties trying to receive from the chalice if I knelt to receive the eucharist! Nonetheless, I respect others’ choice of posture as being a matter of personal custom and preference.I do think though that the focus should be on ourselves and our relationship with Christ and, through him with others.

 

[Tigg]

They still knelt, regardless of the presence of kneelers. Heck people still do that in a lot of the Third World. I am a regular visitor to rural African and have attended a LOT of Masses there. They might lay down a cloth under their knees to keep their good Church clothes clean from the dirty (or just plain dirt) floor, but they still kneel. Kneeling at Mass without a kneeler is very much a modern ‘First World problem’

We recently visited a church in New Mexico that was providing temporary worship in a multi-purpose facility until the necessary funds are raised for their church. Every single chair had a flat pillow on it that was placed on the floor during the consecration and after returning from communion and every single person at that Mass knelt on the floor with the exception of those physically unable to do so!

And then there was the diocese in another state we visited where all stood during and after communion and never did kneel at all - even momentarily, and stayed standing and singing and clapping until the Mass was dismissed. No time for a personal prayer to the Lord, nor any heart-felt reflection of thanksgiving. We, too, stood in obedience to their bishop but my heart was breaking and we did our silent prayer of thanksgiving in our car in the parking lot.

 

[Brendan]

Interesting - from memory, the Orthodox stand throughout, while at least some Eastern-Rites kneel, at least during the consecration.

That is correct

For what it’s worth - I kneel during the consecration and receiving the eucharist standing. Still, there a risk that we can end up imitating the Pharisees by becoming too fixated on the “correct” liturgical posture, at the expense of the correct disposition.

The correct disposition would, or course, be one of obedience to the directives on the Church. Since the fault of the Pharisees was that of hypocrisy, that they did not practice what they expected others to practice, when one is obedient, there can be no charge of Phariseeism.

Both standing and kneeling are, in their own way, equally as reverent and, as many previous posters have pointed out, considered equally appropriate by the Church.

Equal, but not the same, hence the Church has commanded each of these postures at different times of the liturgy.

Granted, I’d prefer to kneel during the consecration, rather than stand, and would likely run into difficulties trying to receive from the chalice if I knelt to receive the eucharist! Nonetheless, I respect others’ choice of posture as being a matter of personal custom and preference.I do think though that the focus should be on ourselves and our relationship with Christ and, through him with others.

As long as the local custom has proper permissions from the Church, otherwise, a local custom of disobedience is hardly something we should participate in, nor encourage in others.

 

[Brendan]

We recently visited a church in New Mexico that was providing temporary worship in a multi-purpose facility until the necessary funds are raised for their church. Every single chair had a flat pillow on it that was placed on the floor during the consecration and after returning from communion and every single person at that Mass knelt on the floor with the exception of those physically unable to do

That is what happened at our parish when we went through a parish expansion project several years back.

Mass was held in the parish hall, everyone knelt on the (concrete) floor, unless physically unable to do so.

No flat pillows were provided, several people did bring little pads if they felt it was necessary.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I recall that when Cardinal George first visited the seminary in Chicago he instructed them that they were to kneel for the consecration. He was told that they had no kneelers. He responded that he hadn’t said anything about kneelers; just that all were to kneel for the consecration.

Somehow they managed to come up with some kneelers rather quickly.

 

[babochka]

Interesting - from memory, the Orthodox stand throughout, while at least some Eastern-Rites kneel, at least during the consecration.

It is not unheard of for Orthodox to kneel for the consecration, though it is not the tradition. Likewise for Eastern Catholics. Although is is not our tradition to kneel during the consecration, some Eastern Catholic churches do kneel, having been influenced by western practices. Most make a profound bow, and I’ve seen a few where a prostration is made. In the last 40 years or so, most Eastern Catholic churches have made efforts to restore the Eastern traditions that have been lost.

Regardless, it is the clear tradition of the east to remain standing, at least on Sundays, and the tradition of the west to kneel.