Kneeling to Receive Our Lord in the Eucharist

[bpbasilphx]

**
Kneeling to recieve Christ is the more respectful and better way to recieve but is not the fashion or what is encouraged so it will be frowned upon and fought against.**

Standing to receive the Eucharist has ALWAYS been traditional in the Byzantine liturgy.

 

[scylla]

**
Kneeling to recieve Christ is the more respectful and better way to recieve but is not the fashion or what is encouraged so it will be frowned upon and fought against.**

Standing to receive the Eucharist has ALWAYS been traditional in the Byzantine liturgy.

I agree, we in the Latin rite show respect in a different way, as our tradition shows.

I am concerned about Latin rite Catholics and our specific deterioration of belief in the Real Presence. Byzantine Catholics don’t seem to have had the outright rejection of Christ in the Eucharist as we have experienced. I encourage all Latin rite Catholics to go to Eastern Catholic liturgies and look to them for examples of respect for our Lord, as also other people encourage people to go to Churches where the Mass is done with a centrality on Christ with respect.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[japhy]

According to the Catechetical Lectures of St. Cyril of Jerusalem, the Bishop of Jerusalem and a Doctor of the Church, Holy Communion was received in the hand.

Yes, and then the Host is touched to your eyes and consumed very carefully, so that not the smallest particle is lost; St. Cyril likens the particles of the Host to gold dust. And when the Precious Blood is consumed, while it remains wet on your lips, you are to touch your fingers to your lips and then touch your sensory organs with it.
In approaching therefore, come not with your wrists extended, or your fingers spread; but make your left hand a throne for the right, as for that which is to receive a King. And having hollowed your palm, receive the Body of Christ, saying over it, Amen. So then after having carefully hallowed your eyes by the touch of the Holy Body, partake of it; giving heed lest you lose any portion thereof; for whatever you lose, is evidently a loss to you as it were from one of your own members. For tell me, if any one gave you grains of gold, would you not hold them with all carefulness, being on your guard against losing any of them, and suffering loss? Will you not then much more carefully keep watch, that not a crumb fall from you of what is more precious than gold and precious stones?

Then after you have partaken of the Body of Christ, draw near also to the Cup of His Blood; not stretching forth your hands, but bending, and saying with an air of worship and reverence, Amen, hallow yourself by partaking also of the Blood of Christ. And while the moisture is still upon your lips, touch it with your hands, and hallow your eyes and brow and the other organs of sense. Then wait for the prayer, and give thanks unto God, who has accounted you worthy of so great mysteries. (St. Cyril, Catechetical Lecture XXIII, nn. 21-22)
Is this practice still done? No. It might have nice intentions behind it, but it is no longer the practice because it can lead to profanation of the Eucharist.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

Yes, and then the Host is touched to your eyes and consumed very carefully, so that not the smallest particle is lost; St. Cyril likens the particles of the Host to gold dust. And when the Precious Blood is consumed, while it remains wet on your lips, you are to touch your fingers to your lips and then touch your sensory organs with it.
In approaching therefore, come not with your wrists extended, or your fingers spread; but make your left hand a throne for the right, as for that which is to receive a King. And having hollowed your palm, receive the Body of Christ, saying over it, Amen. So then after having carefully hallowed your eyes by the touch of the Holy Body, partake of it; giving heed lest you lose any portion thereof; for whatever you lose, is evidently a loss to you as it were from one of your own members. For tell me, if any one gave you grains of gold, would you not hold them with all carefulness, being on your guard against losing any of them, and suffering loss? Will you not then much more carefully keep watch, that not a crumb fall from you of what is more precious than gold and precious stones?

Then after you have partaken of the Body of Christ, draw near also to the Cup of His Blood; not stretching forth your hands, but bending, and saying with an air of worship and reverence, Amen, hallow yourself by partaking also of the Blood of Christ. And while the moisture is still upon your lips, touch it with your hands, and hallow your eyes and brow and the other organs of sense. Then wait for the prayer, and give thanks unto God, who has accounted you worthy of so great mysteries. (St. Cyril, Catechetical Lecture XXIII, nn. 21-22)
Is this practice still done? No. It might have nice intentions behind it, but it is no longer the practice because it can lead to profanation of the Eucharist.

Too many undermine that this is how it should be done.

Too many prefer to spread the story it was originally done to deny the Real Presence.

It can be done reverently - it should be done reverently - but too many are quite happy to just complain that it isn’t being done reverently.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So everyone at Mass stands to receive, but you, being more reverent and holy, choose to kneel, thereby bringing a distraction to yourself, and sometimes an obstacle for people walking around you.

Some one else will decide that they’re more reverent and holy than you, so, they’ll decide to walk on their knees, as they approach to receive.

Then some one will feel more reverent and holy than that person, and who knows what they’ll come up with.

I’ve only seen people kneel to receive on EWTN’s Mass, and its only a few. To me, it comes across more as showmanship.

Jim

 

[Indyann]

While I was Adoration, I was thinking about something I had posted the other day about beginning a grassroots “campaign” to bring back kneeling to receive Our Lord.
I have only knelt a hand full of times because it is not the “norm” position (?) to receive. I knelt this evening, and it was glorious!

So, I am wondering if anyone else would like to join me in my “campaign” in this new Liturgical year (and beyond!)

Why in the world would you want to start a “campaign” promoting disobedience? Our Bishops have spoken.

Your personal opinion means zilch. If you prefer to kneel, why not go to a Latin Mass where kneeling is the norm?

 

[Phemie]

Why in the world would you want to start a “campaign” promoting disobedience? Our Bishops have spoken.

Rome spoken on the topic and said that it isn’t disobedience.

Your personal opinion means zilch. If you prefer to kneel, why not go to a Latin Mass where kneeling is the norm?

 

[stmaria]

St. Cyril would not promote a respectful practice?

I figure if it is good enough for a Doctor of the Church who am I to 2nd guess .

Here is a history lesson from Pope Paul VI
Memoriale Dominiewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWMEMOR.HTM

“It is certainly true that ancient usage once allowed the faithful to take this divine food in their hands and to place it in their mouths themselves.
Soon the task of taking the Blessed Eucharist to those absent was confided to the sacred ministers alone, so as the better to ensure the respect due to the sacrament and to meet the needs of the faithful. Later, with a deepening understanding of the truth of the eucharistic mystery, of its power and of the presence of Christ in it, **there came a greater feeling of reverence **towards this sacrament and a deeper humility was felt to be demanded when receiving it. Thus the custom was established of the minister placing a particle of consecrated bread on the tongue of the communicant.This method of distributing holy communion must be retained, taking the present situation of the Church in the entire world into account, not merely because it has many centuries of-tradition behind it, but especially because it expresses the faithful’s reverence for the Eucharist. … A change in a matter of such moment, based on a most ancient and venerable tradition, does not merely affect discipline. It carries certain dangers with it which may arise from the new manner of administering holy communion: the danger of a loss of reverence for the august sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.”

Today only 40 % of Catholics believe in the Real Physical Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Pope Paul had it right.

 

[Indyann]

Phemie:
My Archbishop (Very orthodox) and my Pastor (A canon lawyer) has requested that we stand to receive the Eucharist, therefore, if I choose to kneel at a N.O. Mass, it would be an act of disobedience. If another decision is made in regard to the posture for Holy Communion, I will humbly submit.

Should my Bishop or my Pastor be mistaken in their mandates, that is on them. I will continue to obey the chain of command.

 

[James0235]

Why in the world would you want to start a “campaign” promoting disobedience? Our Bishops have spoken.

Your personal opinion means zilch. If you prefer to kneel, why not go to a Latin Mass where kneeling is the norm?

Yes, our bishops have spoken. But, so has the Holy See. It is not disobedient to kneel for communion:

**In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

** In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.
The Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments

If you do not wish to kneel then that is fine. But, you have no right to accuse someone of disobedience for choosing to do so.

James

 

[Indyann]

Yes, our bishops have spoken. But, so has the Holy See. It is not disobedient to kneel for communion:

In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.
The Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments

If you do not wish to kneel then that is fine. But, you have no right to accuse someone of disobedience for choosing to do so.

James

See post #27. If one chooses to not obey the requests of their immediate superiors, what do you call it? Maybe just obstinance? Maybe pride ? I don’t know. You tell me.

 

[cspb56]

While kneeling is fine I have a real problem with receiving on the tongue. How is that more reverent. Whenever I watch mass on EWTN and see people opening their mouths and sticking out their tongues that’s reverent. In fact it looks disguisting, I realize that it was once the common practice but as someone else pointed out receiving in the hand predates it. When done proper it is reverent…although ture that many people miss the boat.

 

[James0235]

See post #27. If one chooses to not obey the requests of their immediate superiors, what do you call it? Maybe just obstinance? Maybe pride ? I don’t know. You tell me.

What I am saying is that even if your pastor or your bishop requests that you stand for communion the Vatican says that you are not being disobedient for choosing to kneel instead.

If the Holy See is giving you permission to do something then you are not being disobedient to your immediate superior for choosing to do that thing.

James

 

[Phemie]

See post #27. If one chooses to not obey the requests of their immediate superiors, what do you call it? Maybe just obstinance? Maybe pride ? I don’t know. You tell me.

This is the response from Rome on the topic:

Prot. n. 47/03/L

Rome, February 26, 2003

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has received your letter dated December 1, 2002, related to the application of the norms approved by the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, with the subsequent recognitio of this Congregation, as regards the question of the posture for receiving Holy Communion.

As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear.

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: “…while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion”.

This Dicastery hopes that the citation given here will provide an adequate answer to your letter. At the same time, please be assured that the Congregation remains ready to be of assistance if you should need to contact it again.

With every prayerful good wish, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,
[signed]
Mons. Mario Marini
Undersecretary

 

[johnnydigit]

is this document sufficient to act as a final authority? i am in conflict when it comes to listening to our bishop as well. first, i am not even sure if he explicitly asked to only stand, and don’t know if there is a place to confirm this. i don’t want to cause a scene in Mass or disobey my bishop, so i want to be absolutely sure.

isn’t it rude, therefore somewhat disobedient to do the opposite of what the bishop has asked of his diocese? isn’t it the same as if he was standing right in front of you, personally asking you to please stand and not kneel? what would you say if he was right in front of you? “sorry bishop, i want to kneel, and i’m allowed to, so i’m kneeling.” sure you’re allowed to, but could you really say “no”, and would Jesus say “no”?

i heard that sacrificing something like this would be considered “being poor in spirit”. e.g. when St. Francis was fasting, he ended his fast by eating with a brother who was suffering and couldn’t handle the intense fasting.

 

[CB_Catholic]

What I am saying is that even if your pastor or your bishop requests that you stand for communion the Vatican says that you are not being disobedient for choosing to kneel instead.

If the Holy See is giving you permission to do something then you are not being disobedient to your immediate superior for choosing to do that thing.

James

That is true, but an outright campaign for kneeling in a diocese or parish where standing is the norm could be construed as an act of defiance or disobedience and an attempt to undermine the authority of the Bishop and the Pastor. The proper thing to do is to petition the Bishop or Pastor for a promotion of kneeling. Not create chaos during Mass by people doing what “I” want to do, because “I” think it is more reverent and pleasing to God. When you read the lives of many of the Saints, you will notice one outstanding thing–respect for and obedience to their superiors and the heirarchy, even when injustice was being done to them. They considered that to be pleasing to God.

 

[palmas85]

According to the Catechetical Lectures of St. Cyril of Jerusalem, the Bishop of Jerusalem and a Doctor of the Church, Holy Communion was received in the hand.

It was. Generally it was a substantial size piece that was taken home for consumption during the week after a small portion was consumed in the Church.

A very practical reason to receive in the hand that no longer exists.

 

[Walking_Home]

That is true, but an outright campaign for kneeling in a diocese or parish where standing is the norm could be construed as an act of defiance or disobedience and an attempt to undermine the authority of the Bishop and the Pastor. The proper thing to do is to petition the Bishop or Pastor for a promotion of kneeling. Not create chaos during Mass by people doing what “I” want to do, because “I” think it is more reverent and pleasing to God. When you read the lives of many of the Saints, you will notice one outstanding thing–respect for and obedience to their superiors and the heirarchy, even when injustice was being done to them. They considered that to be pleasing to God.

---

Seems — you have that backwards. The “chaos” is created by the one denying the right which Rome continues to allow. Kneeling is still the universal norm for the Latin rite. This has not changed. Standing is an exception to the universal norm. An exception which does not take away the right to kneel. Now the ones responsible for restricting that right—are the ones being disobedient to authority of the Church.