Kneeling to receive still a choice?

[tcraig]

You raise a good point here. I actually wondered the same thing. I personally prefer and have a strong desire to only receive Christ kneeling, but I wonder if out of obedience to the norm whether I should suck it up and receive standing after genuflecting, but then again even genuflecting is considered to be not the norm here anymore, and people are told they are supposed to bow and then receive. Then in practice most people often do not even bow or if they do they will do a small head nod.

The universal norm throughout the Church is standing or kneeling; the norm in the United States is standing. You can see the references here. Do note that while it states that communicants cannot be denied communion for kneeling, it does state that such instances should be addressed pastorally.

I am of the opinion that if you disagree with the lack of reverence being showed through these new liberal norms of standing and bowing and/or if you strongly desire to receive the Lord in a more reverent form by kneeling, then it would not be wrong to go against the “norm” since you view the norm as being somewhat defective in the message it communicates and in its hindering you from giving God the reverence you feel he deserves. Kneeling to receive Communion was the norm for ages before and just to speed up the lines or to make the Mass seem more like protestant churches is not sufficient reason for me to do away with the norm of kneeling to receive Communion.

My problem with your answer is that you put a lot of emphasis on personal feeling; phrases such as you disagree, you strongly desire, *you view. *I understand that you might think it’s okay because it’s being more reverential, but that’s the kind of mindset that also infects Catholics who dissent against Church doctrine. They feel it’s wrong, so they ignore Church directives.

I am interested to see what thoughts anyone else on here may have concerning being obedient to norms of Mass.

Obviously, if you choose to kneel then you can’t be refused communion. That’s a personal decision you must make yourself. However, I do think there’s value in submitting your will and personal desire to those who have authority over you in something as simple as a discipline. People talk a lot about how the OF mass has been “protestantized”, but as a former protestant I can attest that I really do see quite a bit of a protestant (protesting, individualist, putting personal feelings foremost) mindset amongst many who describe themselves as traditionalists. (And no, I’m not accusing you, just sharing my observations. )

 

[Matt33]

Thanks all for your replies! I think a good idea is to talk to Father about this but it is such a volital subject. I am in a Parish where no one ever kneels to recieve and the Masses are pretty laid back so I am worried about causing a scene. On the other hand it truely is how I feel drawn to recieve Him. I have not knelt to recieve before it is just something I feel in my heart.

 

[japhy]

I am in a Parish where no one ever kneels to recieve and the Masses are pretty laid back so I am worried about causing a scene.

What a sad situation, that an act of reverence such as kneeling to receive Communion – an act which is extraordinary now, but was ordinary only a few decades ago – would “cause a scene”!

 

[Geremia]

Go here and click on “Video Clips.” Watch “Liturgy by Fr. Goodwin.” He gives an excellent explanation of kneeling for receiving communion.

 

[jmcrae]

My discussion is the following. Do you think one can still kneel to recieve at a regular mass if one waits until the end. I was told that tripping is the biggest reason why people are discouraged from kneeling. I am under the impresion that one would actualy be refused? Any thoughts?

I’ve never seen anyone refused who did this.

I admire those who have the physical flexibility to be able to fall down on their knees and then rise again immediately, without struggle.

If I could do it, I would, but when I kneel down, I need something to hold on to, to get back up again. (I need to work out more, I know.)

 

[susan618]

I have read several replies in here and a few I have shook my head at. Let me say that after getting away from the Catholic Church for awhile and coming back to it I was shocked to see that the practices I had been taught all through my parochial school years left me feeling a bit uncomfortable. I have just recently turned 40 and do not consider my self old school, yet when I attend service I feel I am, we never took Holy Communion in our hand and I still do not today, we always knelt when receiving, my church does not. I think this is a personal choice and do not and would not look at one as if he was trying to get attention if one preferred to kneel to recieve as some replys have stated. I have had young people look at me half crazed for genuflecting before entering my pew and coming before the alter, a practice I rarely see today.

 

[PJM]

What is a “reasonable manner” with respect to kneeling? You will probably get a lot of different opinions. Mine is that since the norm in the US is standing, a “reasonable manner” for someone who whould like to receive kneeling would be to approach the priest or ushers before Mass and explain what you would like to do and ask for the best way to do it (end of the line seems to make sense).

P.S. - Our parish is in the process of re-designing the Chruch or building a new one (still in the planning stage). Does anyone think it would be out of line for me to suggest an altar rail on one side of the Sanctuary so that those who want to receive kneeling can do so comfortably?

REPLY:
My dear friend in Christ;

I wish you more than luck. God bless you.

Be ever mindful NOT to take the Bishops documents “Environment and Art in Catholic Worship” or the more recent “Built of Living Stones” as being Mandates. They have NO, ZIP, ZERRO binding force unless they are quoting other documents that are current, valid and licit. As a FYI… BoLS was presentd to the Bishops as a working document with a title of “Domus Dei,” literally, “God’s House.” It came out of Committee as OUR HOUSE= Built of Living Stones. Vertical Godly worship. now “we are the church.” worship. More about us than God.

It would be prudent to take my advice on the research documents.

Rely on the GRIM, and the Code of Canon Law as your base for decissions. I would also suggest that you read "Ceromonies Of The Modern Roman Rite, and the following Vatican II documents:

“Musicam Sacram” Item #15, “Eucharisticum Mysterium”, the entire document, as well as "Sacrosanctum concilium "and "Lumen Gentium, all of these are available on the web, expect for the book:

This will give you and your pastor a solid footing for the many decisions you will be called to make.

Be mindful that nothing in the Vatican II documents authorized or even suggested removal of Communion Rails, still this may be an issue that you find impossible to get approved by your Bishop.

An alternitive is to take a page from our current Supreme Pontiff, and bring forward a kneeler or two, as a legitimit option, at Communion time.

Pope Benedict has determined that He will (as TEACHER and POPE) only distribute Holy Communion to those kneeling and receiving on their tongue.

Be especially mindful that the Tabernacle is located in the Sacuntary VISIBLE TO ALL, ALL OF THE TIME!

These will establish a solid foundation on which to built GOD"S HOUSE.

God bless, PJM m.c.

 

[japhy]

I have just recently turned 40 and do not consider my self old school, yet when I attend service I feel I am, we never took Holy Communion in our hand and I still do not today, we always knelt when receiving, my church does not. … I have had young people look at me half crazed for genuflecting before entering my pew and coming before the alter, a practice I rarely see today.

Do not lose hope, Susan! Maybe one day those young people will ask you why you genuflect… or maybe you can tell them without prompting!

God bless you for your reverence.

 

[una_fides]

Obviously, if you choose to kneel then you can’t be refused communion. That’s a personal decision you must make yourself. However, I do think there’s value in submitting your will and personal desire to those who have authority over you in something as simple as a discipline. People talk a lot about how the OF mass has been “protestantized”, but as a former protestant I can attest that I really do see quite a bit of a protestant (protesting, individualist, putting personal feelings foremost) mindset amongst many who describe themselves as traditionalists. (And no, I’m not accusing you, just sharing my observations. )

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I too have questioned how far some go in the name of being a traditionalist in their rejection of Church authority, such as those who think themselves to have enough authority to declare a pope a heretic, a position which I view as untenable in our current day. Nevertheless, we must realize that we are in fact living in a time of crisis in the Church. Whether we know it or not we are in a crisis of truth and a crisis of worship. I recommend everyone to read the Pope Pius X’s encyclical on modernism: vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis_en.html
He explains much of what is taking place today.

There are many priests and even bishops in the Church today who actually are seeking to destroy the Catholic faith, whether they realize it or not. They wish to turn the Church more and more protestant. Many do so in the name of “ecumenism” and to make the Mass more acceptable to unbelievers. Many of them do not themselves even believe in the real presence of our Lord, so why would it make sense to kneel when you are simply receiving a “sign” or a “memorial” or a “spiritual presence”?

It is our duty to stand up against “reforms” when they are moving away from the direction of reverence and towards the direction of a mere memorial meal, as the protestants have. Even St. Paul withstood our first Pope Peter “to the face because he was to be blamed” (Gal 2:11). We too must stand up against liberal innovators who wish to turn our Catholic faith into a mere “memorial meal” or “love festival” rather than what it truly is: the same sacrifice of Christ 2000 years ago represented in an unbloody manner. As we approach so divine a table, it is only natural that we should kneel to worship our most sovereign Lord as he shares his divinity with us.

 

[FrDavid96]

Let’s keep a few things in mind:

Yes, Rome has been crystal clear in saying that one may never be denied Communion on account of kneeling.

The conference of bishops for each region determins the posture (standing or kneeling) for its own territory. When we see something happening outside of our own country, that doesn’t change the norms for us. We don’t know whether or not kneeling is a specific option in those other countries where we see this happening.

The Pope himself has the authority to change or alter the parts of the Mass that can be changed. He has the authority to “dispense himself” from a required posture anytime he chooses. That’s not to mean that individual persons (even clerics) may do the same.

We all have an obligation to be obedient to the liturgical norms. We may see a change in those norms, or an alternative given sometime in the near future, but this is merely speculation. For now, the norm is standing, and the law is that Communion cannot be refused.

 

[Aramis]

No one should be refused Holy Communion at the OF for kneeling. Rome is quite clear on this.

However, standing to receive is the norm at the OF. If following the norms of the mass is important at the EF, it is equally important to do so at the OF.

Only in the US and Canada, and a couple other countries.

 

[Brendan]

The Church settled this issue 4 years ago in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

90. “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “.
​

Note that the decision of the local Conference has to be approved by Rome, and is enacted in the way that it is approved by Rome

Rome clarified it approval of the particular norm of Standing within the US

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received.

The letter states: “… while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion.”

ewtn.com/expert/answers/kneeling_for_communion.htm

So the approval of the norm was specific under the conditions that one may still receive kneeling, and that if they do so, they are not to be considered to be disobedient or or acting illicitly.

So, yes, one may kneel and would not be disobedient in doing so.​

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My discussion is the following. Do you think one can still kneel to recieve at a regular mass if one waits until the end. I was told that tripping is the biggest reason why people are discouraged from kneeling. I am under the impresion that one would actualy be refused? Any thoughts?

A person cannot be refused Communion, however they are asked on several levels, not to.

 

[una_fides]

Note that the decision of the local Conference has to be approved by Rome, and is enacted in the way that it is approved by Rome
Rome clarified it approval of the particular norm of Standing within the US
ewtn.com/expert/answers/kneeling_for_communion.htm
So the approval of the norm was specific under the conditions that one may still receive kneeling, and that if they do so, they are not to be considered to be disobedient or or acting illicitly.
So, yes, one may kneel and would not be disobedient in doing so.

Brendan,

Great post. This document answers the question exactly. Regardless of the norm, we are NOT being disobedient or acting illicitly when we receive Communion kneeling.Thanks for posting.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I am of the opinion that if you disagree with the lack of reverence being showed through these new liberal norms of standing and bowing and/or if you strongly desire to receive the Lord in a more reverent form by kneeling, then it would not be wrong to go against the “norm” since you view the norm as being somewhat defective in the message it communicates and in its hindering you from giving God the reverence you feel he deserves. .

ps40:7
3 sacrifice and offering you do not want; but ears open to obedience you gave me. Holocausts and sin-offerings you do not require;
8
so I said, "Here I am; your commands for me are written in the scroll.

It is no sacrifice to obey when you are in agreement. The real test is obedience, and subjecting your will, when you do not agree.

Many people consider a solemn Communion procession far more reverent than calling attention to oneself by kneeling when there are no accommodations and everyone else is standing.

I am interested to see what thoughts anyone else on here may have concerning being obedient to norms of Mass

Mass is community worship, not about individual preference.

Lux

 

[Brendan]

It is no sacrifice to obey when you are in agreement. The real test is obedience, and subjecting your will, when you do not agree.

Right, and we all agree that the Vatican says we are not disobedient when we kneel

Many people consider a solemn Communion procession far more reverent than calling attention to oneself by kneeling when there are no accommodations and everyone else is standing.

I didn’t see where the OP said he was ‘calling attention to oneself’, rather, the point of the thread is kneeling for Commiunion. They are not the same thing.

Mass is community worship, not about individual preference.

Lux

Correct, and it would be poor theology to consider one’s community to be simply restricted to those in the same room as us at the time. We believe in a communion of the whole Church, and we worship as such. Including those who kneel for communion, and all the saints who are kneeling unseen around us.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I’ve said this repeatedly - it concerns me that so little notice is being taken of the Holy Father’s example.

At every mass, at which the Pope is celebrant, those receiving Holy Communion from him must receive kneeling and on the tongue. This was the case at every Papal mass during the World Youth Day celebrations here in Sydney.

On other posts people have told me that this is irrelevant. How dare Catholics dismiss the example of our Holy Father so casually!
Certainly the Church still permits Holy Communion in the hand and to a communicant who is standing - however, the Pope has made his preference known by what he now asks for at all his masses.

So to answer your question - not only CAN you receive Holy Communion kneeling, this is in fact, the way the Pope prefers you to receive it.

The Holy Father has his preference, but this is from the CNS article

However, the pope’s preference for the traditional practice is not meant to “take anything away from the other” permissible form of standing or receiving the Eucharist in the hand, he said

Why not follow the Holy Father’s example of respecting the instructions of the American Bishops, and the priest/celebrant of the Mass you are attending?

Kneel when there are provisions, but stand when this is the norm, and the preference of the celebrant.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

FWIW in the discussion of kneeling, an article from Zenit has some answers from Father McNamara:

An English reader asked about the Communion procession: “Where the practice has been introduced of the faithful queuing to receive holy Communion standing, do individuals have a right to receive the Host kneeling down or is the priest entitled to insist that they stand? If the faithful are permitted to receive in a kneeling position, is each individual who wishes to do so entitled to kneel at the altar rail, or must he do so in the queue as his turn arrives?”

There are two question involved. The short answer to the question if the individual may choose to receive kneeling is yes. He may do so and may not be refused Communion for adopting this posture. There might be occasions when charity requires that a Catholic sacrifice his personal devotion for the good of others, and so receive standing, but in general it is no great problem.

The present liturgy sees the faithful as coming to receive Communion in processional form (not quite a queue). And so the proper thing to do would be to await one’s turn if that is the only way foreseen for the distribution of Communion.

However, a pastor may freely offer the faithful the possibility of using the Communion rail once they have arrived at the entrance to the presbytery, if he so desires.

 

[Brendan]

Why not follow the Holy Father’s example of respecting the instructions of the American Bishops, and the priest/celebrant of the Mass you are attending?

Kneel when there are provisions, but stand when this is the norm, and the preference of the celebrant.

Lux

But we are to follow the norm as it is approved by the Vatican (as required by Canon Law).

And the norm is that we are not disobedient when we kneel. That includes, by definition, any directives from the local bishop or the celebrant.

We obey them both when we kneel and when we stand. If they think otherwise, it would be disobedience on THEIR part, not ours.

And yes, every parish I have ever attended has made provisions for kneeling.

They have removed all broken glass, rusty razor blades and spinning saw blades from in front of the priest.

Instead, they leave me clear polished marble, tile or even soft carpet for me to kneel on.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

OK, Your priest feels it is his right to instruct you to follow a norm.

Whether or not you agree, you feel it is right for you to defy a priest? I doubt even those who clarified the norm would agree.

It is never right to disrupt a Mass. It is best to follow instructions, and discuss later, or write to the Bishop, if you get no satisfaction.

Lux