Kneeling to receive still a choice?

[benedictgal]

A communicant is neither defying the priest nor disrupting the Mass when he chooses to kneel to receive Holy Communion. Evidently, for some people, the statement from the Holy See, which remains in force, is not enough of proof.

If the Holy Father is having people kneel to receive Holy Communion during the Masses that he celebrates, would one dare say that he is disobedient? No. Of course, there are instances where one cannot kneel (elderly using a cane or those in a wheelchair).

However, as Brendan pointed out in his letter, the recognitio was granted by the Holy See to the USCCB so long as the bishops, nor the priests, forbid anyone from kneeling to receive Our Lord.

In fact, in his homily on the Solemnity of Corpus Christi, Pope Benedict outlined some strong reasons to kneel:

At this point we cannot forget the beginning of the “Decalogue”, the Ten Commandments, where it is written: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex 20: 2-3).*** Here we find the meaning of the third constitutive element of Corpus Christi: kneeling in adoration before the Lord. Adoring the God of Jesus Christ, who out of love made himself bread broken, is the most effective and radical remedy against the idolatry of the past and of the present. Kneeling before the Eucharist is a profession of freedom: those who bow to Jesus cannot and must not prostrate themselves before any earthly authority, however powerful. We Christians kneel only before God or before the Most Blessed Sacrament because we know and believe that the one true God is present in it, the God who created the world and so loved it that he gave his Only Begotten Son (cf. Jn 3: 16). ***We prostrate ourselves before a God who first bent over man like the Good Samaritan to assist him and restore his life, and who knelt before us to wash our dirty feet. ***Adoring the Body of Christ, means believing that there, in that piece of Bread, Christ is really there, and gives true sense to life, to the immense universe as to the smallest creature, to the whole of human history as to the most brief existence. Adoration is prayer that prolongs the celebration and Eucharistic communion and in which the soul continues to be nourished: it is nourished with love, truth, peace; it is nourished with hope, because the One before whom we prostrate ourselves does not judge us, does not crush us but liberates and transforms us. ***

Rome has spoken quite clearly on the matter that no one is being disobedient when they kneel to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion. What is so hard to understand about that? Besides, kneeling is universal. Standing requires recogntio from the Holy See and is allowed only if kneeling is also recognized, as Brendan showed in his post.

 

[benedictgal]

Here is another response from 2002 that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued regarding kneeling to receive Holy Communion:

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. This Dicastery is confident that Your Excellency will be in a position to make a more reliable determination of the matter, and these complaints in any event provide an occasion for the Congregation to communicate the manner in which it habitually addresses this matter, with a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.

The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.

Given the importance of this matter, the Congregation would request that Your Excellency inquire specifically whether this priest in fact has a regular practice of refusing Holy Communion to any member of the faithful in the circumstances described above and – if the complaint is verified – that you also firmly instruct him and any other priests who may have had such a practice to refrain from acting thus in the future. Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse.

Notice that even the prefect deferred to the former Cardinal, regarding his comments as authoritative. You cannot get a clearer response than that.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

May one receive in the hand if one kneels?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

B
Did you even read all of my post?

OK, Your priest feels it is his right to instruct you to follow a norm.

Whether or not you agree, you feel it is right for you to defy a priest? I doubt even those who clarified the norm would agree.

It is never right to disrupt a Mass. It is best to follow instructions, and discuss later, or write to the Bishop, if you get no satisfaction.

Lux

I know the letters you quote, and we’ve had this discussion many times. You have always side stepped my point and just kept quoting the letters. It is defying a priest, if he instructs you to stand, and you refuse.

Lux

 

[Walking_Home]

Here is another response from 2002 that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued regarding kneeling to receive Holy Communion:

Notice that even the prefect deferred to the former Cardinal, regarding his comments as authoritative. You cannot get a clearer response than that.

Quote=benedictgal
Rome has spoken quite clearly on the matter that no one is being disobedient when they kneel to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion. What is so hard to understand about that? Besides, kneeling is universal. Standing requires recogntio from the Holy See and is allowed only if kneeling is also recognized, as Brendan showed in his post.

---

Yes benedictgal— Rome is quite clear on the matter of kneeling for communion. Pushing for “obedience” to anyone who restricts kneeling is promoting/affirming/condoning disobedience to the highest authority. It creates a breakdown of the authoritative structure of the Church.

 

[una_fides]

Lux,

Let me start by saying that I love the name and have a friend that has the same.

I have two comments in response to yours. First you quoted the following as coming from the opinion of a priest:

“There might be occasions when charity requires that a Catholic sacrifice his personal devotion for the good of others, and so receive standing, but in general it is no great problem.”

You emphasized the first part of his statement; I emphasize the second. This nonbinding statement from an individual priest indicates that it is not a problem for individuals to receive Communion kneeling, but apparently he has in mind the possibility of a situation where a Catholic would need to stand when he feels compelled to kneel. Apparently you have used this statement to set up your second question which is stated in your last post:

It is defying a priest, if he instructs you to stand, and you refuse.
Lux

Perhaps if a priest were to directly instruct someone to receive Communion standing prior to Mass then the Catholic could in that instance then be obedient and receive standing or not receive if he did not want to cause a scene. Disobedience to one with authority should generally be avoided as a matter of practice. Nevertheless, a priest who would instruct someone in such a way would be in the wrong and should be held accountable for doing so, as the Church has clearly declared that it is always lawful for a Catholic to receive kneeling. Thus, the priest is the one who should be confronted with the facts. If the priest persists in his false concepts after being presented with copies of the binding law, then the necessary appeals should be sought and that priest should be disciplined by the higher authorities if he persists.

I used to attend a parish where the priest was so liberal and taught heresies to catechumens and from the pulpit. I had just became Catholic and did not know much about the faith and was just following norms like everyone else at the time and received standing (but still on the tongue and after genuflecting). I could see him possibly denying someone Communion or instructing them to stand. He is also quite disobedient to Rome when it comes to following the order of Mass and loves to deviate whenever it fits his distorted theology to do so. The point is that if a priest is instructing people to not kneel then that fact at least adds to my suspicion that he likely holds to other unorthodox positions in weightier matters as well. There are many priests today who do not even believe in the Real Presence, and these priests need to be exposed and confronted.

Here is a question for you: If you disobey a priest who is disobeying the the Pope would you really be in the wrong?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Here is a question for you: If you disobey a priest who is disobeying the the Pope would you really be in the wrong?

I feel you would. As I said, the priest feels this is his right, and it is not a matter against Faith or morals, so the priest should be obeyed, and the discussion taken up later.

I also feel that this situation, which has been set up benefits no one. I have seen many who wish to kneel get a superior attitude with those who set their will and/or preference aside, and follow the norm. Rome should have never approved the standing norm with so many loopholes. Also Rome just “leaves the kids to squabble” when someone insists on kneeling, and a priest attempts to dissuade them. I have never heard of any action or or reprimand taken against any priest who instructs a kneelling communicant to stand, even when there is a big rukus.

This is one of those “occasions when charity requires that a Catholic sacrifice his personal devotion for the good of others, and so receive standing,”

I personally feel the norm should be followed, especially if there are no provisions for kneeling, and everyone else is standing. I do not understand how anyone could feel that such willfullness as defying a priest with a scene at Mass is reverence and pleasing to God. If I felt this strongly about kneeling, I would find a parish where this is accommodated and/or write the Bishop. If the Bishop wouldn’t support my personal desire, I would let it go, and offer the sacrifice.

Lux

 

[Brendan]

OK, Your priest feels it is his right to instruct you to follow a norm.

Whether or not you agree, you feel it is right for you to defy a priest? I doubt even those who clarified the norm would agree.

Who ever said anything about defying a priest? No one, we are talking about following a Church norm as approved by Rome.

That is not defying anyone, or at least anyone who would have the authority to contradict Rome in the matter.

It is never right to disrupt a Mass. It is best to follow instructions, and discuss later, or write to the Bishop, if you get no satisfaction.

Lux

Kneeling is only a disruption when others make it to be so. For example, if a priest violates Rome’s instructions and considers a kneeling person to be disobedient or acting illictly, it would be the priest who is disrupting Mass, not the kneeling person.

 

[Walking_Home]

Who ever said anything about defying a priest? No one, we are talking about following a Church norm as approved by Rome.

That is not defying anyone, or at least anyone who would have the authority to contradict Rome in the matter.

Kneeling is only a disruption when others make it to be so. For example, if a priest violates Rome’s instructions and considers a kneeling person to be disobedient or acting illictly, it would be the priest who is disrupting Mass, not the kneeling person.

---

Very true Brendan. The disruption is caused by the one(s) violating Rome’s directives.

 

[Brendan]

I feel you would. As I said, the priest feels this is his right, and it is not a matter against Faith or morals, so the priest should be obeyed, and the discussion taken up later.

So if a priest decreed that all females at Mass should be topless, your solution would be for the women to strip and write the bishop afterward?

Or does the priest have the authority to make such decrees?

I also feel that this situation, which has been set up benefits no one. I have seen many who wish to kneel get a superior attitude with those who set their will and/or preference aside, and follow the norm.

Can you explain how you know their interior disposition when they kneel?

Rome should have never approved the standing norm with so many loopholes.

Rome didn’t. It approved a norm with qualifications and properly promulgated the definitive legal interpretations of that norm.

Also Rome just “leaves the kids to squabble” when someone insists on kneeling, and a priest attempts to dissuade them.

No squabbling involved. The priest may, outside of Mass make what ever case he feels, as long as he does not attempt to contradict Rome by considering the person to be disobedient or by placing an imposition on the person.

I have never heard of any action or or reprimand taken against any priest who instructs a kneelling communicant to stand, even when there is a big rukus.

Again the priest may make whatever case they may propose. But any authority they have ends at a point they attempt to contradict Rome.

This is one of those “occasions when charity requires that a Catholic sacrifice his personal devotion for the good of others, and so receive standing,”

That is simply your opinion, not actually a fact.

I personally feel the norm should be followed,

Good, so do I, that is why I kneel. Because I follow the norm.

especially if there are no provisions for kneeling,

Every parish I have been at has such provisions, namely a clear floor in front of the priest. That is more that millions of Catholics have had for centuries, so I am grateful for such a provision.

and everyone else is standing.

But everyone else is NOT standing. We know that angels and saints are present around the altar, and that they kneel at the very Name of Jesus as well as His True Presence. So I am very good company when I kneel.

I do not understand how anyone could feel that such willfullness as defying a priest with a scene at Mass is reverence and pleasing to God.

Again, no one is defying the God given authority of the priest. To do so would be disobedient, and Rome has clearly said there is no disobedience involved.

If I felt this strongly about kneeling, I would find a parish where this is accommodated and/or write the Bishop. If the Bishop wouldn’t support my personal desire, I would let it go, and offer the sacrifice.

Lux

Or perhaps, the kneeling is itself is a sacrifice. So why not let each person offer the sacrifice they, as common priests, offer to God.

Or is it your position in life to tell others what sacrifices they are to offer and when?

 

[una_fides]

I have seen many who wish to kneel get a superior attitude with those who set their will and/or preference aside, and follow the norm.

That’s odd because I detect the opposite virtue in those who kneel: humility. You can look at it either way. Those who prefer to stand and prefer others do likewise view someone’s kneeling to receive their Lord in Communion as a “disruption” or as trying to “draw attention to themselves” out of pride. While it’s possible and I’m sure that there are some with this “holier than thou attitude,” I think most are not kneeling for attention but rather out of adoration and sincerest devotion.

I think the opposite of what you proposed is actually a problem. I suspect that there are many more who wish to kneel who do not because they do not want to draw attention to themselves. They just want to blend in like everyone else and not take a real stand for what they personally feel is the more reverent, natural, and traditional way to receive our Lord by kneeling. This same attitude of avoiding attention can be found among those who do not genuflect when passing the altar but instead do a quick head nod to not draw themselves more attention. Studies have shown that people in general are more afraid of public speaking and public performance than death itself. I know this whole scenario also from experience as I have struggled with whether to kneel or stand out of fear of drawing attention to myself when I felt convinced that the most reverent thing I should be doing was kneeling and desired to do so with all my heart. Thus, I feel that it is not pride that causes people to kneel, but it is rather fear that keeps people from kneeling at all.

Rome should have never approved the standing norm with so many loopholes.

Rome left it up to the US bishops, many of which are more liberal and want to conform the mass more and more to protestant-style worship. It was not Rome that came up with standing but they. I personally wish they would have never ripped the Communion rails from the churches and requested an indult for Communion in the hand.

Lux, you and I have a difference of preference. I do not judge those who receive standing as it is a licit option, and I hope you too can come to the point where you approve of those who receive our Lord kneeling, as is licit and a commendable action. Anyone who is strong enough to stand out in a crowd and take a stand for Christ should be commended for their behavior, not judged and criticized.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Rome left it up to the US bishops, many of which are more liberal and want to conform the mass more and more to protestant-style worship. It was not Rome that came up with standing but they. I personally wish they would have never ripped the Communion rails from the churches and requested an indult for Communion in the hand…

A very sad attitude toward US Bishops. His Holiness disagrees.

Lux, you and I have a difference of preference. I do not judge those who receive standing as it is a licit option, and I hope you too can come to the point where you approve of those who receive our Lord kneeling, as is licit and a commendable action. Anyone who is strong enough to stand out in a crowd and take a stand for Christ should be commended for their behavior, not judged and criticized

I feel a communion procession is far more licit and commendable, and subjecting the will is even more commendable than either.

Yes, I guess we must agree to disagree.

Peace

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

So if a priest decreed that all females at Mass should be topless, your solution would be for the women to strip and write the bishop afterward?

Or does the priest have the authority to make such decrees?

Do any of you even read my posts?

As I said, the priest feels this is his right, and it is not a matter against Faith or morals, so the priest should be obeyed, and the discussion taken up later

.

Rome didn’t. It approved a norm with qualifications and properly promulgated the definitive legal interpretations of that norm.

yes, and it also gave instructions for handling perceived abuses, and it is not to argue with a priest…

Good, so do I, that is why I kneel. Because I follow the norm.

We’ve been through this many times the norm is determined by the Bishops conference, and it is standing in the US. Some priests disagree with the exceptions allowed.

Every parish I have been at has such provisions, namely a clear floor in front of the priest. That is more that millions of Catholics have had for centuries, so I am grateful for such a provision.

That is a provision for standing–a kneeler is a provision for kneeling.

But everyone else is NOT standing. We know that angels and saints are present around the altar, and that they kneel at the very Name of Jesus as well as His True Presence. So I am very good company when I kneel.

Community worship is about our parish community. Spirits do not have knees–how can they kneel?

Again, no one is defying the God given authority of the priest. To do so would be disobedient, and Rome has clearly said there is no disobedience involved.

The disobedience is not in kneeling. It is in refusing to follow the instructions of the priest. We are told how to handle perceived abuses,(such as a priest instructing us to stand) and it is not to defy a priest.

Or perhaps, the kneeling is itself is a sacrifice. So why not let each person offer the sacrifice they, as common priests, offer to God.

How is forcing our preference on a priest/celebrant a scrifice?

Or is it your position in life to tell others what sacrifices they are to offer and when?

Nope—just how to best handle a difficult situation.

Lux

 

[Brendan]

Do any of you even read my posts?

Yes, and it is a matter of Faith that all Catholics adhere to the matters of Church discipine as set forth by Rome ( see Pastor Aeternus, Vatican I)

yes, and it also gave instructions for handling perceived abuses, and it is not to argue with a priest…

I never argue, I just kneel.

If someone else choses to argue over it, that is their fault, not mine.

We’ve been through this many times the norm is determined by the Bishops conference, and it is standing in the US. Some priests disagree with the exceptions allowed.

No, a Liturgucal Norm is voted on by the bishops, but it’s authority and interpretation come from Rome, as approved by Rome. They can disagree all they want; perhaps they would serve their flock better if they spend the time investigating Rome’s reasoning instead of substituting their own views over that of Rome’s.

Rome provides ample opportunity for a priest to make certain decisions one the Liturgy. It would rather hypocritical for a priest to use any of those freedoms (such as use the vernacular in the Mass), but deny the faithful the rights and privlidges that Rome extends to them in particular.

That is a provision for standing–a kneeler is a provision for kneeling.

No, a clear floor is a provision for kneeling. That is how Catholics have knelt for millenia. Heck it’s even more that Christ Himself had in Gehsemne, and He still knelt. If you feel otherwise, could you produce any Liturgical documents that state that kneelers are a required provision for kneeling in the Latin Church?

Or, if you can’t back up your position, perhaps you should withdraw it.

Community worship is about our parish community. Spirits do not have knees–how can they kneel?

The saints have knees, and they bend them at the Name of Christ(Phillipians 2:10) and even fall prostrate ( Rev 4:10). Or do you consider St. Paul and St. John to be mistaken?

The disobedience is not in kneeling. It is in refusing to follow the instructions of the priest. We are told how to handle perceived abuses,(such as a priest instructing us to stand) and it is not to defy a priest.

Again, any instructions of a priest that are contrary to Rome have no authority. If a priest forbids what Rome has permitted, it would be the priest who is in error, not the the faithful. And since we are a people of Truth, participation in error would not become us

How is forcing our preference on a priest/celebrant a scrifice?

We are not making our priest do anything. He is still standing. And then there is the physical effort. It is an easier thing to stand. A Sacrifice is giving up that which is easy or comfortable in favor of that which is not.

It is therefore a sacrifice to kneel. Now that I have shown exactly how kneeling is a sacrifice, perhaps you will explain to me how you would the right to tell another person what sacrifice they can, or cannot make?

Nope—just how to best handle a difficult situation.

Since there is no difficulty in the situation, your (name removed by moderator)ut would not be required. Or is it that since you personally find difficulty in the situation, everyone else must find it difficult as well?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Yes, and it is a matter of Faith that all Catholics adhere to the matters of Church discipine as set forth by Rome ( see Pastor Aeternus, Vatican I)

The matters of Faith which would exempt someone from obedience are doctrine, not disciplinary norms.

I never argue, I just kneel.

I am speaking of those who are told to stand.

If someone else choses to argue over it, that is their fault, not mine.

it is your fault, if you refuse to follow the instructions of your priest

No, a Liturgucal Norm is voted on by the bishops, but it’s authority and interpretation come from Rome, as approved by Rome. They can disagree all they want; perhaps they would serve their flock better if they spend the time investigating Rome’s reasoning instead of substituting their own views over that of Rome’s.

The norm is standing. Some bishops and/or priests feel that there are sometimes good reasons to not allow the exception.

Rome provides ample opportunity for a priest to make certain decisions one the Liturgy. It would rather hypocritical for a priest to use any of those freedoms (such as use the vernacular in the Mass), but deny the faithful the rights and privlidges that Rome extends to them in particular.

Again, you may not agree with the priest, but there are instructions for handling the disagreement

No, a clear floor is a provision for kneeling. That is how Catholics have knelt for millenia. Heck it’s even more that Christ Himself had in Gehsemne, and He still knelt.

There was no procession, with the possibility of tripping someone in either situation you mention.

Or, if you can’t back up your position, perhaps you should withdraw it.

You have given no substantiation of yours

The saints have knees, and they bend them at the Name of Christ(Phillipians 2:10) and even fall prostrate ( Rev 4:10). Or do you consider St. Paul and St. John to be mistaken?

We do not know if they are speaking metaphorically or literally. Do you also feel the garden and apple are literal?

Again, any instructions of a priest that are contrary to Rome have no authority. If a priest forbids what Rome has permitted, it would be the priest who is in error, not the the faithful. And since we are a people of Truth, participation in error would not become us

I am not discussing if he is in error. We are given instruction on how to handle this situation.

Since there is no difficulty in the situation, your (name removed by moderator)ut would not be required. Or is it that since you personally find difficulty in the situation, everyone else must find it difficult as well

You may no consider a battle of wills a difficulty, but I do,

We must agree to disagree

Peace

Lux

 

[MarieVeronica]

My discussion is the following. Do you think one can still kneel to recieve at a regular mass if one waits until the end. I was told that tripping is the biggest reason why people are discouraged from kneeling. I am under the impresion that one would actualy be refused? Any thoughts?

Hi Matt. This was actually the subject of my very first post at CAF.

I had knelt to receive Communion, one Sunday at Mass… and was loudly and publicly rebuked by my Pastor. He told me… “We don’t receive Communion that way in this parish”. It broke my heart. I went home absolutely crushed.

However, we have recently been blessed with a new Pastor and two new priests. ALL of them… seem greatly devoted to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament (and to Our Lady). Since their arrival… I have on a number of occasions, seen people receive in a kneeling position.

One of our new priests, despite severe, crippling knee problems… kneels on the hard marble floor… until the Blessed Sacrament has been carried back to the side Tabernacle (we have one of those little “off to the side” chapels).

So, I have a sense… that this question is largely determined by the attitude of each separate parish Pastor. People will simply “follow their lead”.

I have prayed and prayed, that our priests will return to a profound attitude of respect for the Blessed Sacrament. I feel that the lax attitude that some of them have had… has contributed largely, to a lack of respect for Our Lord, which sadly, is seen too often.

Perhaps, the tide is beginning to turn?

 

[Brendan]

The matters of Faith which would exempt someone from obedience are doctrine, not disciplinary norms.

Did you read Pastor Aeternus yet?

it is your fault, if you refuse to follow the instructions of your priest

No, I make no argument. I simply kneel as the Church say I may. If someone choses to argue over that, I simply do what

The norm is standing. Some bishops and/or priests feel that there are sometimes good reasons to not allow the exception.

Good, in which case, they can follow the quidelines for changing an approved norm. If they try and do so on their own, then they are against the Church.

Again, you may not agree with the priest, but there are instructions for handling the disagreement

That is correct, the CDWDS outlined those very clearly.

There was no procession, with the possibility of tripping someone in either situation you mention.

There certainly is a procession, or at least the level of procession that the Vatican desires. If someone desires a greater level of ‘procession’ then they may appeal to the Vatican.

You have given no substantiation of yours

I am not the one who added to what the CDWDS wrote, or claimed that anything is required to kneel other than what Christ in The Garden had.

Besides, I kneel on the exact same ground as the priest and the altar servers genuflect on prior to each Mass. So clearly, the priest himself considers that ground to be acceptable for kneeling.

How is suitable for kneeling at the beginning of Mass without a kneeler, and somehow not suitable for kneeling without a kneeler less than an hour later?

We do not know if they are speaking metaphorically or literally. Do you also feel the garden and apple are literal?

In his book “The Spirit of the Liturgy” Pope Benedict used Phillipians to defend the practice of kneeling. I will use Phillipians in the same sense that he does and will consider myself to be in good company

I am not discussing if he is in error. We are given instruction on how to handle this situation.

Yes, I refer you again to the dubia published by the CDWDS. They are the exact instructions on how to handle this.

You may no consider a battle of wills a difficulty, but I do,

Again, I engage in ‘battle’ with no one. I simply kneel as allowed by the Church. If someone chooses to engage in a ‘battle’ with me in opposition to the teachings of the Church, I will simply ignore them until Mass is over, which is the correct thing to do.

That is hardly a ‘battle’.

We must agree to disagree

If you mean by that, that you would choose to let people kneel as they wish and you stand as you wish, I fully agree.

 

[jmcrae]

May one receive in the hand if one kneels?

This doesn’t seem like it would be physically possible.

I have only ever seen it done where one tips up one’s head and hold out one’s tongue so that the priest may drop the Host into your mouth.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

There certainly is a procession, or at least the level of procession that the Vatican desires. If someone desires a greater level of ‘procession’ then they may appeal to the Vatican.

This is in response to

Lux:

There was no procession, with the possibility of tripping someone in either situation (the early church and Gethsemene) you mention.

Please respond to the OP

Besides, I kneel on the exact same ground as the priest and the altar servers genuflect on prior to each Mass. So clearly, the priest himself considers that ground to be acceptable for kneeling.

How is suitable for kneeling at the beginning of Mass without a kneeler, and somehow not suitable for kneeling without a kneeler less than an hour later?.

Genuflecting is different from Kneeling, and also the genuflection is expected, where s kneeling in the middle of a procession is not.

Again, I engage in ‘battle’ with no one. I simply kneel as allowed by the Church. If someone chooses to engage in a ‘battle’ with me in opposition to the teachings of the Church, I will simply ignore them until Mass is over, which is the correct thing to do.

perhaps you do not, but many do. This is the difficulty I am addressing. I have no problem with kneeling, if the celebrant is OK with it.

If you mean by that, that you would choose to let people kneel as they wish and you stand as you wish, I fully agree

Only if the priest/celebrnt does not object

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

ps

Yes, I refer you again to the dubia published by the CDWDS. They are the exact instructions on how to handle this.

And I refer you to RS

1. Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

…not defying the priest/celebrant