Kneeling VS. Standing

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scylla

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This is a debate thread, which is better for receiving communion.

We know what the norms are and both are allowed, which practice is better. Both are allowable ways to receive, which is better?

Why was standing introduced? I believe it was because of evil intentions promoting disrepect, a desire to elevate the human person and an intentional desire to negate the real presence as this makes some people uncomfortable.

Kneeling might be subservient yet is it better?
I recieve standing as that is the practice in my diocese yet I am uncomfortable doing so. I stand to not cause scandel and to not be singled out as too orthodox which is bad in my parish.
(my parish coordinator promotes women priests and other crazy stuff, so I try and keep a low profile to stay involved)

What do you think?

Scylla
 
scylla said:
This is a debate thread, which is better for receiving communion.

We know what the norms are and both are allowed, which practice is better. Both are allowable ways to receive, which is better?

Why was standing introduced? I believe it was because of evil intentions promoting disrepect, a desire to elevate the human person and an intentional desire to negate the real presence as this makes some people uncomfortable.

Kneeling might be subservient yet is it better?
I recieve standing as that is the practice in my diocese yet I am uncomfortable doing so. I stand to not cause scandel and to not be singled out as too orthodox which is bad in my parish.
(my parish coordinator promotes women priests and other crazy stuff, so I try and keep a low profile to stay involved)

What do you think?

Scylla
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Kneeling might be nice IF there were any kneelers in the building…or even carpet…
A newer church in our area was built with no pews or kneelers. We meet in a school cafeteria where there also are neither. The building of our ‘multipurpose building’ will start later this summer. I’m expecting folding chairs instead of pews.
I thought part of the reason it was changed was for those folks for whom kneeling was uncomfortable or impossible…

On the other hand, when we have had benedictions/ expositions, people kneel on the bare floor. Otherwise, only a few kneel during mass.
 
scylla said:
This is a debate thread, which is better for receiving communion.

We know what the norms are and both are allowed, which practice is better. Both are allowable ways to receive, which is better?

Why was standing introduced? I believe it was because of evil intentions promoting disrepect, a desire to elevate the human person and an intentional desire to negate the real presence as this makes some people uncomfortable.

Kneeling might be subservient yet is it better?
I recieve standing as that is the practice in my diocese yet I am uncomfortable doing so. I stand to not cause scandel and to not be singled out as too orthodox which is bad in my parish.
(my parish coordinator promotes women priests and other crazy stuff, so I try and keep a low profile to stay involved)

What do you think?

Scylla
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As both are allowed, I guess it’s a matter of personal choice.
As far as your creating scandal, that may have just been a poor choice of words, so I’m not taking you to task…Perhaps you meant to say that you believe kneeling when everyone else is standing would detract from the “oneness” of the faithful or something similar in nature, but it is never scandal to do that which the Church has declared permissable.
HOWEVER, your “parish coordinator”, if he /she truly does what you have stated, is a different story. Forget about the low profile, speak to your priest about those issues. If you recognize scandal, it becomes your responsibility to properly address it.
 
I have only ever seen it done standing (except flipping through EWTN a couple of times) for what it is worth.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
I have only ever seen it done standing (except flipping through EWTN a couple of times) for what it is worth.
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I’ve seen both, but i prefer standing to kneeling but it represents a more solidified church standing together before Christ ready to recieve Him in full communion with the entire church and it makes communion much less of a personal thing and more of what its supposed to be ( to be in communion with Christ and the Church)
 
General Instruction of the Roman Missal 2002:
The norm for reception of holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing.
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We should not disobey this norm which is approved by Rome, so I would say that standing is indeed “better” because to stand while receiving Holy Communion is to be obedient to our bishops.
 
I do agree that we should be obedient, I stand and will continue to do so as it is the norm. It is better to be obedient, and be prudent with your actions at Mass. We should be unified and if we all kneeled we would be kneeling together. Just as when I receive now I stand along with the rest of my parish.

So yes obedience is better…

Now which is better by the representation of the actions we do.
Kneel to receive the Eucharist or stand. What do you think?

God Bless
Scylla

Say what you feel, it really doesn’t matter as we don’t make the decisions the Bishops do, I just want to see if there is a good holy reason for standing.
 
scylla said:
Why was standing introduced? I believe it was because of evil intentions promoting disrespect, a desire to elevate the human person and an intentional desire to negate the real presence as this makes some people uncomfortable. Scylla
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I usually do what “the Romans do” because to do otherwise may make me feel better, but it detracts from the attention others may be paying to the Mass.

We stood from the Sanctus to the Great Amen in my parish for over twenty years. Apparently one of the pastors started it and the Bishop did not object. Then for two years a new assistant pastor encouraged a few of his adherents to kneel anyway. Talk about anger and back biting and factions on both sides. Finally that Sacramentum letter came out and the Bishop said “Enough! You will kneel.” We did. After the three or four years of divisive behavior, the parish has actually became rather peaceful.

Problem now for me is now that I can no longer respectfully stand, I must sit because my knees have failed me. I feel really bad about that.

I really think the comments quoted above attribute motivations to people in the pews that may exist only in a few. Most are good solid people who do what they are told. They love and respect Our Lord and his Church as much as anyone.
 
scylla said:
This is a debate thread, which is better for receiving communion.

We know what the norms are and both are allowed, which practice is better. Both are allowable ways to receive, which is better?

Why was standing introduced? I believe it was because of evil intentions promoting disrepect, a desire to elevate the human person and an intentional desire to negate the real presence as this makes some people uncomfortable.
Click to expand...
Not fully sure about that- I seem to remember reading somewhere that at least one of the people who spoke out for it was the Melkite Patriarch, Maximos (sp?)
Kneeling might be subservient yet is it better?
I recieve standing as that is the practice in my diocese yet I am uncomfortable doing so. I stand to not cause scandel and to not be singled out as too orthodox which is bad in my parish.
(my parish coordinator promotes women priests and other crazy stuff, so I try and keep a low profile to stay involved)

What do you think?

Scylla
Click to expand...
Personally speaking I would prefer kneeling but not just a kneeling in the procession. The great thing about kneeling at an altar rail, is that is gives time to reflect and pray before (and a little after) receiving. I’ve heard the same hymn (Sweet Sacrament Divine) and psalm (bless the Lord) once at my old Anglican church (where we knelt) and I hear it also at my Catholic church (where we receive standing) The kneeling was much more conducive to preparation.
 
scylla said:
I
Now which is better by the representation of the actions we do.
Kneel to receive the Eucharist or stand. What do you think?
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I don’t honestly know. I think it really depends on the interior disposition.

I prefer to receive kneeling at an altar rail. But standing is fine, too. I’ve attended mass at the Vatican, and kneeling is obviously inappropriate there because of the large numbers present. And if one is ill in hospital, communion is received lying down.
 
It’s useful to remember that when Rome indicated people couldn’t be denied Communion for kneeling, they ALSO indicated that people can’t be considered DISOBEDIENT for kneeling…
 
The one important difference I notice between standing as normally done and kneeling at an altar rail is that with the standing position, receiving Communion is an isolated, one-on-one action, while receiving at the rail is a communal action with one’s brothers and sisters one either side, all receiving together. I find the communal posture much more significant.
 
I would prefer going back. If our beloved Pope would decide to change it overnight I would be very happy, haha.

Here is the thing, standing is not wrong or bad so the debate isn’t between good and bad but between better and worse (as the first post actually suggests). I say that kneeling is definitely better. I think it’s a great sign of reverence towards our Lord that in addition also helps others to realize that it is not just a bread that we are receiving. I think the second one is especially important now when there are so many Protestant denominations that deny Real Presence. We Catholics must stand against that and be seen!
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VociMike:
The one important difference I notice between standing as normally done and kneeling at an altar rail is that with the standing position, receiving Communion is an isolated, one-on-one action, while receiving at the rail is a communal action with one’s brothers and sisters one either side, all receiving together. I find the communal posture much more significant.
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That’s an excellent point, I haven’t realized that! 🙂

In Christ 🙂 ,
~G
 
AlexV said:
It’s useful to remember that when Rome indicated people couldn’t be denied Communion for kneeling, they ALSO indicated that people can’t be considered DISOBEDIENT for kneeling…
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Rome clearly says which is preferable. They clearly state that the person who kneels should be taken aside and catechized (i.e. informed they are wrong). They clearly say that standing is the NORM in the United States.

And because they also say that people who insist on kneeling should be treated gently when catechized against it, you somehow view this as saying it’s ok.

Unbelievable.
 
andy120 said:
We should not disobey this norm which is approved by Rome, so I would say that standing is indeed “better” because to stand while receiving Holy Communion is to be obedient to our bishops.
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The Church also has a Universal Norm of kneeling. The US has adopted a Particular Norm of standing.

A Particular Norm does not override a Universal Norm unless the Vatican specifically says so.

The Vatican has said that the Universal Norm has not been overriden, so a Catholic who chooses to follow the Universal Norm does not incur any disobedience.
 
Again we know what the norms are, what the Bishops encourage in the United States. I don’t care about this for this discussion and it is off the topic. Please refrain from discussing what is the current practice as that is off topic.

I am not saying that standing is wrong or that kneeling is wrong. I am asking which is better and why.
VociMike gave an excellent post in regards to this, please continue in that fashion if you can.

I am not encouraging anyone to be disobedient or to rise up in arms against our Bishops I am just looking for a some good reasoning behind each practice as which is better.

In Christ
Scylla
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
Rome clearly says which is preferable. They clearly state that the person who kneels should be taken aside and catechized (i.e. informed they are wrong). They clearly say that standing is the NORM in the United States.

And because they also say that people who insist on kneeling should be treated gently when catechized against it, you somehow view this as saying it’s ok.

Unbelievable.
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Just because you have never given citations for your claims in about 90% of your previous posts, I am still obligated to ask you to give me some documents from the Vatican that back up your statement. …again.
 
Actually, Rome says nothing about telling people they’re “wrong”. Rome DOES say people can’t be considered “disobedient” for kneeling. Interesting…and, I admit, a bit more subtle than the knee-jerk types who have helped harm Catholicism.

Kneeling is a perfectly legitimate posture for Communion. If you kneel, you’re not disobedient. Kneel in peace…joy…and love.
 
VociMike said:
The one important difference I notice between standing as normally done and kneeling at an altar rail is that with the standing position, receiving Communion is an isolated, one-on-one action, while receiving at the rail is a communal action with one’s brothers and sisters one either side, all receiving together. I find the communal posture much more significant.
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If you stand after recieving communion with everyone else you are also representing the same posture and therefore representing not a individual experience but a communal one also.

God Bless,
Podo
 
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