Knights of Columbus from Christopher Columbus? Is he a Catholic Saint?

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1Tim215Mommy

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My protestant cousin just studied him at her homeschool with her children and they learned he was Not a good guy.

I know about the Knights of Columbus and wondered if they’re connected to him and wonder if he’s considered a Catholic Saint.
 
The Knights of Columbus were formed in 1882 by Fr. Michael J. McGivney as a fraternal benefits society. They took their name from Columbus because back in 1882 Columbus was still seen as a noble person that embodied the ideas our nation was founded upon. I do find it ironic that a bunch of Irish immigrants took the Italian Columbus as their name sake.

Don’t believe all the bad press about Columbus…simply remember he was a man of his age…and by the standards of his age was a great man.

The Knights of Columbus are an AWESOME organization. They were founded because Catholics were largely an immigrant religion in the US…therefore they got stuck with the dangerous and thankless jobs…jobs that often resulted in death. This would leave a lot of widows and orphans. Fr. McGivney’'s goal was to be able to give the widow of a Knight $1000 on the death of her husband (this was the sum required to prove to the courts that a widow could raise her children and wouldn’t become wards of the state…if she didn’t have this amount the children were taken from her and sent to orphanages…this was a stupid policy that split up families).

SINCE that time we’ve (I’m a Knight) grown into an organization of 1.7 million members. We gave over $165 million to charity LAST YEAR ALONE…and wracked up more than 70 million volunteer hours…
 
Yerusalyim said:
The Knights of Columbus were formed in 1882 by Fr. Michael J. McGivney as a fraternal benefits society. They took their name from Columbus because back in 1882 Columbus was still seen as a noble person that embodied the ideas our nation was founded upon. I do find it ironic that a bunch of Irish immigrants took the Italian Columbus as their name sake.

Don’t believe all the bad press about Columbus…simply remember he was a man of his age…and by the standards of his age was a great man.

The Knights of Columbus are an AWESOME organization. They were founded because Catholics were largely an immigrant religion in the US…therefore they got stuck with the dangerous and thankless jobs…jobs that often resulted in death. This would leave a lot of widows and orphans. Fr. McGivney’'s goal was to be able to give the widow of a Knight $1000 on the death of her husband (this was the sum required to prove to the courts that a widow could raise her children and wouldn’t become wards of the state…if she didn’t have this amount the children were taken from her and sent to orphanages…this was a stupid policy that split up families).

SINCE that time we’ve (I’m a Knight) grown into an organization of 1.7 million members. We gave over $165 million to charity LAST YEAR ALONE…and wracked up more than 70 million volunteer hours…
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:clapping:
 
Is he a Saint?

I like the Knights, the ones locally wrote a letter to Lenscrafters & my new 16 yr old soon was given the prescription glasses he needs to see clearly 🙂
Yerusalyim said:
The Knights of Columbus were formed in 1882 by Fr. Michael J. McGivney as a fraternal benefits society. They took their name from Columbus because back in 1882 Columbus was still seen as a noble person that embodied the ideas our nation was founded upon. I do find it ironic that a bunch of Irish immigrants took the Italian Columbus as their name sake.

Don’t believe all the bad press about Columbus…simply remember he was a man of his age…and by the standards of his age was a great man.

The Knights of Columbus are an AWESOME organization. They were founded because Catholics were largely an immigrant religion in the US…therefore they got stuck with the dangerous and thankless jobs…jobs that often resulted in death. This would leave a lot of widows and orphans. Fr. McGivney’'s goal was to be able to give the widow of a Knight $1000 on the death of her husband (this was the sum required to prove to the courts that a widow could raise her children and wouldn’t become wards of the state…if she didn’t have this amount the children were taken from her and sent to orphanages…this was a stupid policy that split up families).

SINCE that time we’ve (I’m a Knight) grown into an organization of 1.7 million members. We gave over $165 million to charity LAST YEAR ALONE…and wracked up more than 70 million volunteer hours…
Click to expand...
 
Nobody considers Columbus a saint.

(His patroness, Queen Isabella la Catolica, does have a sainthood cause in the works, but it’s highly controversial and I don’t think it’s gotten terribly far. She was a good queen in many ways; certainly her dedication to unifying Spain and achieving the Reconquista was remarkable; and she was also a pious lady. But a saint of heroic virtue? I don’t know.)

It was always acknowledged that Columbus did some brave things, some visionary things, some wicked things, and some stupid things. But his life used to be the subject of American poetry and study, and his voyages and subsequent imprisonment were taught to every American schoolchild.

Nowadays, this is usually avoided, because you can’t bring him up without somebody declaring the man an evil Antichrist of evil. He’s become one of US progressives’ favorite devils, so it’s essential that nobody ever learn anything about the actual man. The same thing is true of most of Spain’s colonial ventures; so despite the wealth of primary sources still available in the various Spanish archives, the whole thing is tragically understudied in the US and most English-speaking countries.

Moving along… having the Knights pick Columbus for their name was important, because it signaled to their contemporaries that it wasn’t just some weird dangerous Irish organization or an organization for weird foreign Catholics, but that it was a nice reputable fraternal society, founded for Catholics who lived in the Americas and meant to have their allegiances there. Nowadays the membership is much wider in scope, of course; but they started in New England and that was the important target market for the name.
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
My protestant cousin just studied him at her homeschool with her children and they learned he was Not a good guy.

I know about the Knights of Columbus and wondered if they’re connected to him and wonder if he’s considered a Catholic Saint.
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Perhaps the KOC should change their name?
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Perhaps the KOC should change their name?
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Sure - why not … they might rename themselves for some of the tribes that Columbus encountered instead … They could become the Knights of Carib and remain the KOC … …

Wouldn’t that be so much better :rolleyes:

…Perhaps not …Why not - you ask … ummm :confused: …

The Caribs practiced ritual cannibalism: They ate people or body parts ceremonially in order to absorb powers both spiritual and physical.

Really - Why should they? …

As an act of political correctness? Christopher Columbus’s life should be judged in relation to the culture in which he lived …

And the Knights of Columbus should remain who they are … a wonderful fraternal organization who have left the world better then they found it 👍

:knight1: ❤️
 
YADA said:
Sure - why not … they might rename themselves for some of the tribes that Columbus encountered instead … They could become the Knights of Carib and remain the KOC … …

Wouldn’t that be so much better :rolleyes:

…Perhaps not …Why not - you ask … ummm :confused: …

The Caribs practiced ritual cannibalism: They ate people or body parts ceremonially in order to absorb powers both spiritual and physical.

Really - Why should they? …

As an act of political correctness? Christopher Columbus’s life should be judged in relation to the culture in which he lived …

And the Knights of Columbus should remain who they are … a wonderful fraternal organization who have left the world better then they found it 👍

:knight1: ❤️
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There’s no need for the snark.

You don’t think the organization should name itself after a person who actually embodies their values?
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
My protestant cousin just studied him at her homeschool with her children and they learned he was Not a good guy.
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Where do lessons plans come for Protestant home schools? What is the source of the scholarship and who vets it?
 
House_Harkonnen said:
There’s no need for the snark.

You don’t think the organization should name itself after a person who actually embodies their values?
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And you possess superior insight into the ‘values’ held by Columbus and judge them unworthy of embodiment by others :rolleyes:

Christopher Columbus was a man who was bold and skillful at navigation and who worked very hard and seeing his voyage of discovery through … persistence is not a bad thing …

He overcame obstacles like poverty and the mishaps that befall voyages …

He was a man of faith - he wanted to bring Christ to those peoples who inhabited the land he encountered … some people think that is tragic … but as a Christian - I believe that Christ is the Way, the Light and the Truth … I believe in the Good News and the great commission … even when that Good News is not always shared in perfection … Christ is perfect - the messenger may not be …

Was he perfect? - no … but then who is 🤷 … Did he desire to increase his wealth, power and influence? Sure, did that desire at times cause him to sin … probably yes - again - does that not happen in every age? What about those around him - were they all perfect? And in the world that comprised the era of the life and times of Columbus … he is not evil incarnate …

Did the Small pox come to the new world devastating the native populations? - yes … did the new world send back syphilis to Europe - killing millions? yes

Were all the native populations living in idyllic utopias until the arrival of the European hordes? … No … in the cultural clash - did the Europeans come out on top? Yes …

The Knights of Columbus are a wonderful organization of men - dedicated to Christ, to Family and to Life … they - organizationally - make a positive difference in the world and they should not run from the identity they made their own.
 
YADA said:
And you possess superior insight into the ‘values’ held by Columbus and judge them unworthy of embodiment by others :rolleyes:

Christopher Columbus was a man who was bold and skillful at navigation and who worked very hard and seeing his voyage of discovery through … persistence is not a bad thing …

He overcame obstacles like poverty and the mishaps that befall voyages …

He was a man of faith - he wanted to bring Christ to those peoples who inhabited the land he encountered … some people think that is tragic … but as a Christian - I believe that Christ is the Way, the Light and the Truth … I believe in the Good News and the great commission … even when that Good News is not always shared in perfection … Christ is perfect - the messenger may not be …

Was he perfect? - no … but then who is 🤷 … Did he desire to increase his wealth, power and influence? Sure, did that desire at times cause him to sin … probably yes - again - does that not happen in every age? What about those around him - were they all perfect? And in the world that comprised the era of the life and times of Columbus … he is not evil incarnate …

Did the Small pox come to the new world devastating the native populations? - yes … did the new world send back syphilis to Europe - killing millions? yes

Were all the native populations living in idyllic utopias until the arrival of the European hordes? … No … in the cultural clash - did the Europeans come out on top? Yes …

The Knights of Columbus are a wonderful organization of men - dedicated to Christ, to Family and to Life … they - organizationally - make a positive difference in the world and they should not run from the identity they made their own.
Click to expand...
And you possess superior insight into the ‘values’ held by Columbus and judge them unworthy of embodiment by others
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Folks new that he was tyrannical and an incompetent administrator even back in his day, that’s why Isabella and Ferdinand removed him from his post.

In fact, he was a terrible tyrant.

Read more:

theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/07/books.spain

A “man of faith” would hardly…

“One man caught stealing corn had his nose and ears cut off, was placed in shackles and was then auctioned off as a slave. A woman who dared to suggest that Columbus was of lowly birth was punished by his brother Bartolomé, who had also travelled to the Caribbean. She was stripped naked and paraded around the colony on the back of a mule.”
The Knights of Columbus are a wonderful organization of men - dedicated to Christ, to Family and to Life … they - organizationally - make a positive difference in the world and they should not run from the identity they made their own.
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Indeed. I am a KOFC. I have nothing against the organization. However, I think they should pick the name of a person who actually embodies their great values. Not a known tyrant and torturer and slaver.
 
dvdjs said:
Where do lessons plans come for Protestant home schools? What is the source of the scholarship and who vets it?
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It’s not the protestant homeschool that is the problem…it’s the curriculum being used in most schools today too.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Folks new that he was tyrannical and an incompetent administrator even back in his day, that’s why Isabella and Ferdinand removed him from his post.

In fact, he was a terrible tyrant.

Read more:

theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/07/books.spain

A “man of faith” would hardly…

“One man caught stealing corn had his nose and ears cut off, was placed in shackles and was then auctioned off as a slave. A woman who dared to suggest that Columbus was of lowly birth was punished by his brother Bartolomé, who had also travelled to the Caribbean. She was stripped naked and paraded around the colony on the back of a mule.”

Indeed. I am a KOFC. I have nothing against the organization. However, I think they should pick the name of a person who actually embodies their great values. Not a known tyrant and torturer and slaver.
Click to expand...
Judged by today’s standards he is horrible…judged by the standards of 1491…not so much…remember…the Inquisition was still going on hot in Spain…and while the inquisition wasn’t NEARLY as bad as our protestant friends pretend it was…it was still not good. So…judged by the standards of conduct in 1491…Columbus was a GREAT guy…and by the standards of 1882 he was STILL a great guy…and by the standards of 1972 he was STILL a great guy…it’s only in this age of political correctness where we judged people in the past by today’s morality that he becomes a bad actor.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Judged by today’s standards he is horrible…judged by the standards of 1491…not so much…remember…the Inquisition was still going on hot in Spain…and while the inquisition wasn’t NEARLY as bad as our protestant friends pretend it was…it was still not good. So…judged by the standards of conduct in 1491…Columbus was a GREAT guy…and by the standards of 1882 he was STILL a great guy…and by the standards of 1972 he was STILL a great guy…it’s only in this age of political correctness where we judged people in the past by today’s morality that he becomes a bad actor.
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I disagree. If he was a “GREAT” guy, why did Isabella and Ferdinand remove him from his position?

Also, tyranny, torture, murder, and slavery is wrong in any decade or century.
 
livingwordunity said:
My father told me that if, instead of reading the popularized opinions about Christopher Columbus, we read what Christopher Columbus wrote first-hand in his diary it is clear that he was a good man.
Here is the diary: The Diario of Christopher Columbus’s First Voyage to America, 1492-1493
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Men can write one thing and do another…many times the writing is to rationalise what evil they’ve done. Sorry, as someone with N/A blood, Columbus was NOT good man. I’d it didn’t happen to your ancestors, then I can see where you’d ignore that party of history. Even worse was his son.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
I disagree. If he was a “GREAT” guy, why did Isabella and Ferdinand remove him from his position?

Also, tyranny, torture, murder, and slavery is wrong in any decade or century.
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Yep, in 1492, what he did to N/A’s was viewed as criminal by N/A’s, whose territory he was on. If he had gone in and plundered France the same way, it would have been a crime. Done that to anyone on the seas, he’d be considered a pirate at worst and privateer at best…a criminal or riding the lines thereof.
 
I’m not going to sit here and apologize for Columbus just to make a few politically correct liberals feel better. Sorry.
Christopher Columbus was an important man in history and not an ogre. The Native Americans WERE violated…but they had been doing similar things to themselves for ages…or were all those human sacrifices done by someone else? Guess what, I think Julius Caesar was a great man too…and what he did made Columbus look like a saint. Stop reading back into history your own personal moral standard…it simply doesn’t work. Judged by the morality of his era Columbus was NOT a bad person. Should we judged EVERYONE by today’s standards? Yes, Columbus was ACCUSSED of brutality…but Ferdinand freed Columbus…
No, judged by TODAY’s morals…not a great guy…but almost everyone from 1492 would be considered morally reprehensible by today’s moral standard.
 
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