Knights Of Columbus, Justification?

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Well, I learned what St. Paul meant in 1Cor. 4, and it should apply here as well about judging people based on their past actions, accusations from others, personal interpretations of people’s writings, and reputations. That is going "beyond what is written."

1 Corinthians
Chapter 4

**“1 ****Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. ****2 ****Now it is of course required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. ****3 ****It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; ****4 ****I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord. ****5 ****Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God. ****6 1 I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written, 2 so that none of you will be inflated with pride in favor of one person over against another. ****7 ****Who confers distinction upon you? What do you possess that you have not received? But if you have received it, why are you boasting as if you did not receive it? ****8 ****You are already satisfied; you have already grown rich; you have become kings 3 without us! Indeed, I wish that you had become kings, so that we also might become kings with you…” **-1 Corinthians 4:1-8 (NAB)

Source: usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians4.htm
 
Rand Al'Thor:
I like Washington, but Jefferson refused to free his slaves after writing that “all men are created equal”.
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Randi, Do you have a problem with Saint Paul. He sent Onesimus back to his master and didn’t demand he be freed. Some fights can only be fought a little bit at a time. You can’t change the whole world in one fell swoop. Thomas Jefferson writing “all men are created equal” started the movement to free the slaves.
I am a Knight and we do alot for charity. You know a tree by it’s fruits.
 
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Della:
Judging people from very different times and cultures according to modern standards of behavior and our present culture has become quite the fashion. As well as taking things they said and did out of the context of their times.
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Well said Della.
 
Roman_Army said:
What’s with the “justification”? Do you think it’s an evil organization or something?
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Why do you read something into my [ost that was NOT there? I asked the question to find out what the general Catholic population actually knows about the Knights of Columbus.[/color]

The word “Justification” was used for lack of a better word. Some of you do not know that every organization needs to be justified. Someone said the Elks do not need to be justified. That is just not true.

The Knights of Columbus gives about 3 million dollars to the Pope yearly for his charities. Also another 14 million is given yearly to various charities.

One poster assumed I know nothing of K of C, he told me to look at their web page.** I AM A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS. I AM INVOLVED**. So maybe you guys could just answer the questions and not ASSUME things that were not said.

EXPORTER
 
Della had an excellent point. Anyone who is familiar with the broad panorama of history should know that one has to read and evaluate people in the context of their times. Our Church even teaches that when reading and interpreting passages in Scripture we need to place them in the context of the time when they were written. Many, many of the heros of our childhood when accurately portrayed do not come out well in the context of our current values and expectations. I have no doubt that future generations will judge us very critically despite the fact that we think we are doing the best we can. With Columbus and Spain one has to realize that the Moors were still very much a threat and that the enslavement of the darker races was more than acceptable. Even the Church while not endorsing slavery found it to be an acceptable practice. The concept of an “Untermensch” is still promenent in our world. Look at the captives at Gitmo.
 
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rwoehmke:
Della had an excellent point. Anyone who is familiar with the broad panorama of history should know that one has to read and evaluate people in the context of their times. Our Church even teaches that when reading and interpreting passages in Scripture we need to place them in the context of the time when they were written. Many, many of the heros of our childhood when accurately portrayed do not come out well in the context of our current values and expectations. I have no doubt that future generations will judge us very critically despite the fact that we think we are doing the best we can. With Columbus and Spain one has to realize that the Moors were still very much a threat and that the enslavement of the darker races was more than acceptable. Even the Church while not endorsing slavery found it to be an acceptable practice. The concept of an “Untermensch” is still promenent in our world. Look at the captives at Gitmo.
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What does slavery have to do with the Knights of Columbus?

Perhaps some of you are “off-topic” because you don’t know much about the K of C. Please answer my original questions.
 
Exporter said:
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Why do you read something into my [ost that was NOT there? I asked the question to find out what the general Catholic population actually knows about the Knights of Columbus.[/color]

The word “Justification” was used for lack of a better word. Some of you do not know that every organization needs to be justified. Someone said the Elks do not need to be justified. That is just not true.

The Knights of Columbus gives about 3 million dollars to the Pope yearly for his charities. Also another 14 million is given yearly to various charities.

One poster assumed I know nothing of K of C, he told me to look at their web page.** I AM A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS. I AM INVOLVED**. So maybe you guys could just answer the questions and not ASSUME things that were not said.

EXPORTER

Calm down - the most difficult part of participating in an online forum is we cannot hear the tone of voice used by the writer. I read your first post wondered why it seemed, well, odd…not really defensive but not really open either. Then I read it again and tried to take all my own projection of tone and implication out of the equation. Just read the words this time, and decided to ask a question of the forum.

Is there a ladies auxiliary of the K of C? I have always considered them a wonderful organization - almost a prescurser (sp?), if you will, of Opus Dei. The founders defended the Irish and Catholics in a new land in a way that presented our Holy Mother Church in a positive, loving light. What I see of the men of my parish that participate in K of C is that this spirit of love and service to Jesus is alive and well.

I don’t know anyone who is a member, and I always hesitate to ask about Ladies Auxiliaries because I do not want to appear pushy or put anyone on the defensive. I thought I would ask in this forum, hoping that no one will read anything into the question other than interest in a fine organization.

As for Christopher Columbus, I too was re-educated about him at the University, had to read his journals and was shocked at the way people thought at that time. I don’t think he was any worse - and he certainly was much better - than any of his contemporaries. But you must remember, if I wanted to really attack prominent male historical figures I could easily bring up the status of women during that time to justify how ‘terrible’ all men were - but, like Della posted, I prefer to read about these people in light of their own worlds and their own experiences. The world is still a pretty brutal place, but it was more so during that time in history.
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Hey Friend of Chris, I have been a K of C for nearly 40 years. If they need justification based on their works just check out the Columbia Magazine you get each month; particularly the last few pages. As for the name, when the Knights was founded I don’t think anyone thought of Columbus as a knave. He was thought to be an example of an active Catholic serving God, Queen, and country. Using todays knowledge to judge our K of C founders is…well…questionable. It would be difficult, if not totally unproductive, to change the name today. We all have to live with our sins and foibles and look forward and not always back to rethink past decisions. Use the past to evaluate future actions being considered. Peace my friend. I hope I have addressed your question this time.
 
The justification is to protect / defend our priests and Church.
 
Exporter said:
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Why do you read something into my [ost that was NOT there? I asked the question to find out what the general Catholic population actually knows about the Knights of Columbus.[/color]

The word “Justification” was used for lack of a better word. Some of you do not know that every organization needs to be justified. Someone said the Elks do not need to be justified. That is just not true.

The Knights of Columbus gives about 3 million dollars to the Pope yearly for his charities. Also another 14 million is given yearly to various charities.

One poster assumed I know nothing of K of C, he told me to look at their web page.** I AM A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS. I AM INVOLVED**. So maybe you guys could just answer the questions and not ASSUME things that were not said.

EXPORTER

**Sorry, it’s just that the word “justification” makes it seem like you’re addressing grave matter. Kind of like saying “the death penalty is justified.” So, I was trying to clear that up so it doesn’t seem like a conspiracy theory or something. Some people believe it is an evil organization and has ties with the “New World Order.” :eek: **
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Exporter:
Why do you read something into my [ost that was NOT there? I asked the question to find out what the general Catholic population actually knows about the Knights of Columbus.

The word “Justification” was used for lack of a better word. Some of you do not know that every organization needs to be justified. Someone said the Elks do not need to be justified. That is just not true.

One poster assumed I know nothing of K of C, he told me to look at their web page.** I AM A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS. I AM INVOLVED
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. So maybe you guys could just answer the questions and not ASSUME things that were not said.
I still don’t understand the question. :hmmm: Why do the Knights (or the Elks) need to be justified? On *your *say-so? *What *do you *mean *by “justification”?

I can’t even justify my *own *existence for goodness sake! I know God created me to know him, to love him, and to serve him in this world, and to be happy forever with him in heaven – But that only explains why anyone exists, not why *I specifically *exist.

But anyway, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS and YOU ARE INVOLVED. You already know the answer. Among others:
As their forebears did more than a century ago, today’s Knights and their families stand shoulder to shoulder in support of one another. Through their charity and the examples of their lives, they stand in service to all as witnesses to the Good News of the Gospel.
…
Father McGivney conceived the idea of an organization of Catholic men who would band together:
  • To aid one another in times of sickness or death, by means of a simple insurance plan, so that their wives and children would not face abject poverty.
  • To strengthen themselves and each other in the Faith.
  • To strengthen families and family life.
  • To be a strong pillar of support for their priests and bishops.
  • To be of service to Church and community by coming to the aid of those most in need in society.
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They called themselves Knights of Columbus – Knights to emphasize chivalry’s ideals of charity and support for Church and state, and Columbus as a reminder that Catholics had been the backbone and bulwark of America’s growth and greatness from the very beginning.
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tee
 
I am a Knight of the third Degree. *Vivat Jesus! *The K of C is the strong right arm of the Church, completely loyal to the Holy Father, and ready to help pastors and parishes in any way. We do a lot of high-profile charity work, but we also do a lot of “little” things that otherwise might not get done. We are also a brotherhood in the Church where the faith of our members is strengthened.
 
I admire all of you Knights of Columbus:blessyou:

You are my heros.

"Aspire to inspire before you expire."
 
The Knights of Columbus’s charitable activities do NOTHING for the Hispanic and Indian populations of this country. Until they choose to focus on the problems there, they will continue to divide the American Catholic Church by honoring a man who had no respect for the HUMAN BEINGS he encountered in his explorations.

Read Bartolome de las Casas’ writings, and the Journals of CC, take a look at the alienation of Hispanics and Indians from the Church. Your attitudes towards this issue are contributing to a major division in the Church.

All voices must be heard.
 
Divine Intervention at Guadalupe had more to do with the conversion of Mexico than the reading (in a language the people did not know) of a “be baptized or die” pronouncement that came directly from the horrors of the Inquisition.
To be of service to Church and community by coming to the aid of those most in need in society.
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:confused: Are you aware of elderly people on reservations in the Dakotas who have no fuel to heat their homes in the winter? Of tremendous financial problems at Indian Health Services and at schools on the reservations due to our dear President’s Crusade mentality?
 
The origin of the word “apologetics” has more to do with apologies, not justifying continuing injustices.
 
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Exporter:
Why do you read something into my [ost that was NOT there? I asked the question to find out what the general Catholic population actually knows about the Knights of Columbus.[/color]One poster assumed I know nothing of K of C, he told me to look at their web page.** I AM A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS. I AM INVOLVED**. So maybe you guys could just answer the questions and not ASSUME things that were not said.

EXPORTER
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In all charity, had you stated this up front, you would have saved yourself alot of grief.
nianka
 
No, I apologize to Exporter for not having picked up on this thread earlier. Last night, I wrote a rant that thankfully I could not post. Some kind of server problem— aah— right. 😉
 
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Cactus:
I am a Knight of the third Degree. *Vivat Jesus! *The K of C is the strong right arm of the Church, completely loyal to the Holy Father, and ready to help pastors and parishes in any way. We do a lot of high-profile charity work, but we also do a lot of “little” things that otherwise might not get done. We are also a brotherhood in the Church where the faith of our members is strengthened.
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Yeah, Cactus! This is what I was waiting for. You hit the nail right on the head. What you say is what “we” say!
 
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