Knights Of Columbus, Justification?

[Ignatius]

Exporter:

All of you Catholics know something about the Knights of Columbus. I have seen them pray before Mass, raise money for Seminaries and to offer various services.

Please give some reasons for the justification for the existance of the Knights of Columbus. Negative comments are welcome.

I don’t think they need to have a justification for their existance any more than you do. They seem to be an upstanding charitable and philonthropic organization.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Peace be with you!

I’ll say this one more time, since people either didn’t believe me or wanted to tell me what I think.

I like the KoC…I said that in my original post. I don’t think that Christopher Columbus was a good Christian, and that is based on my own research, not off of anything a teacher has told me. I am well aware that there are many liberal history professors at colleges (I’ve had one)…do you really think I’m that gullible that I won’t be able to spot when a teacher is full of it??? I had a teacher a year ago that was horrible when it came to Church history, and if I ever take a class from him again, I will publically correct him in front of the entire class (I just didn’t know as much as I do now about the Church when I took this class, though I did know that what he was saying was likely inaccurate; now that I think back on it, it was full of c***).

I have had some great history professors as well. Just this last term in my Roman history class, every one of our assignments was designed to get us to read the texts (ancient and modern) and come to our own conclusions; the questions for our papers had no right or wrong answers.
My English history professor that I’ve had for two classes is an Episcopal priest, holds a PHD from Caimbrige, and has published a book on the English Reformation. This professor is so knowledgable and fair (and accurate) about the Catholic Church, that I believe the only reason she is not Catholic is because she wouldn’t be allowed to be a priest. In fact, when her book was published, she got a review by someone accusing her of being Catholic and writing about the Reformation from a Catholic point of view!
The best history teacher I’ve ever had was at a two-year community college. I can spot a good history teacher because I read a lot of history on my own. This teacher could answer any question about history you could come up with (without even checking his notes).
So please don’t accuse me of “going off of what some liberal professor taught me” without knowing who I am. I can spot whether or not a history teacher is good, which is why I took as many classes at the two-year school as I could from that teacher, and two classes so far at my university from my English history professor.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Rand,

Sorry, didn’t mean to presume on your ability to deal with liberal professors.

The Knights of Columbus’s charitable activities do NOTHING for the Hispanic and Indian populations of this country. Until they choose to focus on the problems there, they will continue to divide the American Catholic Church by honoring a man who had no respect for the HUMAN BEINGS he encountered in his explorations.

Read Bartolome de las Casas’ writings, and the Journals of CC, take a look at the alienation of Hispanics and Indians from the Church. Your attitudes towards this issue are contributing to a major division in the Church.

Instead of ranting that the KofC doesn’t do enough, maybe you could do something constructive about it, like contact a local council? Furthermore, there are Hispanic councils and councils in Mexico and the Philipines (and maybe other places, can’t remember right off the top of my head). We cannot do everything, and help everyone, but we certainly try to help out folks. If that isn’t acceptable to you, well, so be it.

I don’t see where you think there is going to be a “divide” in the Church. There is no divide in the Catholic Church, either you are in the Church and in good standing with the Holy See, or you are not Catholic.

And the Greek root word for “apologetics” means to give an explanation-not to “apologize” as we use it in the English language.

 

[Jerusha]

And the Greek root word for “apologetics” means to give an explanation-not to “apologize” as we use it in the English language.

Thank you for your clarification. However, if making a full and honest explanation also leads to an apology-- then let it happen.

We cannot do everything, and help everyone, but we certainly try to help out folks.

That is all I ask.

I don’t see where you think there is going to be a “divide” in the Church.

I suppose you have never seen the difficulty in a town where an Anglo and a Hispanic parish have merged, have you?

Instead of ranting that the KofC doesn’t do enough, maybe you could do something constructive about it, like contact a local council?

There are things happening on a local level. I don’t have the power locally to do anything about it. I think the problem needs to be addressed on a national level. Especially given the number of Hispanic and Indian Catholics who are leaving because the Catholic church is not meeting their needs through cultural insensitivity. Given the problems with Evangelical missionaries in the countries South of us, maybe it needs to come from the Papal level.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Jerusha:

There are things happening on a local level. I don’t have the power locally to do anything about it. I think the problem needs to be addressed on a national level. Especially given the number of Hispanic and Indian Catholics who are leaving because the Catholic church is not meeting their needs through cultural insensitivity. Given the problems with Evangelical missionaries in the countries South of us, maybe it needs to come from the Papal level.

So you want some kind of change to happen, but you want someone else to make it happen instead of doing something yourself? “Good luck”

Or are you willing to do something about it, just as soon as you are selected to the “Papal level”? “Good luck” again.

Oh wait – you said: “There are things happening on a local level” – You just want them to turn into something on a national or Papal level, but without your doing anything to make that happen? “Good luck” for the third time.

“I don’t have the power locally to do anything about it” – Bah! Do you live in an area where there are native Americans or persons of hispanic descent who are not being ministered to? Are you a practical Catholic gentleman, in union with the Holy See, at least 18 years of age? *You *should join the Knights of Columbus. They would *love *to have you as a member, and to lead them to do something at the local level. Something at the local level gets recognized by the state, and propogated back down to other local levels. Such a statewide program gets recognized by the national organization, and propogated back down to other states. That’s the way it happens. I repeat: “I don’t have the power locally to do anything about it” – Bah!

“I sent you 2 boats and a helicopter”,
tee

 

[Jerusha]

Given my gender, and lack of a husband with whom to discuss these concerns,

“I don’t have the power locally to do anything about it”

Sorry I wasn’t specific enough.
Given the protests of Isabella at the atrocities committed in the Americas, I might join the “Auxiliary”. However, I am not sure of the social structure there, and whether it would give me adequate voice.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Jerusha:

The Knights of Columbus’s charitable activities do NOTHING for the Hispanic and Indian populations of this country. Until they choose to focus on the problems there, they will continue to divide the American Catholic Church by honoring a man who had no respect for the HUMAN BEINGS he encountered in his explorations.

Read Bartolome de las Casas’ writings, and the Journals of CC, take a look at the alienation of Hispanics and Indians from the Church. Your attitudes towards this issue are contributing to a major division in the Church.

All voices must be heard.

So, are you saying that if the KofC can’t help everyone, then they shouldn’t help anyone?

 

[Jerusha]

It is obvious to me that they are neglecting an area of great need.

However, if you wish to see cultural segregation in the church, someone might eventually charter Knights of las Casas as a separate organization.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Jerusha:

It is obvious to me that they are neglecting an area of great need.

The KofC are a non-profit volunteer organization. They are under no obligation to provide assistance to anyone.

Jerusha:

However, if you wish to see cultural segregation in the church, someone might eventually charter Knights of las Casas as a separate organization.

Who they help and how much they help is determined at the local council level by voting members, a body of officers and the board of trustees. When I lived in southern Florida, some councils were mostly hispanic and most of their support went to the hispanic community. Would someone have been justified in complained that they were not helping some other cultural group?

 

[Jerusha]

Who they help and how much they help is determined at the local council level by voting members, a body of officers and the board of trustees. When I lived in southern Florida, some councils were mostly hispanic and most of their support went to the hispanic community. Would someone have been justified in complained that they were not helping some other cultural group?

I am glad that things are beginning to filter upward. Do you think it will soon emerge on a national level? There needs to be more publicity about these things. What I have seen has not been that positive.

 

[Exporter]

Ignatius:

I don’t think they need to have a justification for their existance any more than you do. They seem to be an upstanding charitable and philonthropic organization.

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THANK YOU. This rather small organisation has done a tremendous amount of good in the world, and it is a world-wide organization,

One person, a lady, complains that the K of C doesnt do enough for Hispanics and that it is wrong to “honor” Christopher Columbus by using his name. That is absolutely silly. C. Columbus was Hispanic as were his sailors. Did you ever hear of Hispanola?

I live in a part of the country where over 75% of the population is of Mexican descent. There are a significant number of Illegals here too. Believe me when I tell you that almost all of them recieve U.S. Govt. handouts. Many of them lie on their applications so they are “eligible” to get these free handouts. They are…foodstamps, medical care, free telephones, rent subsities, partial payment for electricity, free schooling for their many children and other things paid for by us, the citizens who work and have had families here for generations.

The K of C doesnt have to help the Hispanics who are on the free-service wagon. They know how to bilk the U.S. Govt., and they do.

Think. Dont to thonk the K. of C. should be helping Catholic Seminaries and schools? Their first responsibility is to the Church, then the Priests and of course the Trinity.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Jerusha:

I am glad that things are beginning to filter upward. Do you think it will soon emerge on a national level?

Maybe I didn’t make myself clear.

The Knights of Columbus are composed of thousands of local councils. The individual councils are governed by the local members in that council. A Grand Knight is elected to be the chief executive of that council. He is assisted by various other officers (such as a chancellor, financial secretary, warden, etc.) who were also elected from the local membership. They work a board of directors who are composed of previous Grand Knights.

The council can do as much or as little as they wish. They are under no obligation because they are all volunteers. Nobody can force volunteers to do things and the volunteers have a right to say where they wish that money to go to. In councils that are comprised of mostly hispanic members, it is reasonable to assume that their aid will go mostly toward the hispanic sector.

This past year (July 2004 - June 2005), our council sent $6000 to an Indian priest doing missionary work in India where he was able to buy cloths, food, medical supplies for the local Indian people and he is in the process of building a church and a school. We have budgeted another $6000 to go to him this coming year assuming we can raise that amount from our various fund-raising projects.

We are doing this because that priest was stationed in our parish for one year and during that time he developed a good relationship with our local council. Thus, we are helping him out even though we do not have a single Indian member in our council.

The fact that he is Indian has no bearing on any of this. He is a fellow Catholic in need.

 

[LSK]

Jerusha:

The Knights of Columbus’s charitable activities do NOTHING for the Hispanic and Indian populations of this country. Until they choose to focus on the problems there, they will continue to divide the American Catholic Church by honoring a man who had no respect for the HUMAN BEINGS he encountered in his explorations.

Read Bartolome de las Casas’ writings, and the Journals of CC, take a look at the alienation of Hispanics and Indians from the Church. Your attitudes towards this issue are contributing to a major division in the Church.

All voices must be heard.

That’s funny - most of the men in the K 0f C in my parish are of Hispanic or Polynesian descent!

Oh well.

 

[Jerusha]

The fact that he is Indian has no bearing on any of this. He is a fellow Catholic in need.

And American Indian (NativeAmerican) Catholics in need? The reason why I tie this in to the American Hispanic issue is that most of them are not just Spanish in ancestry, but are also American Indian, some purely so.

I really think this topic is pretty well done with. I have made my point.

 

[Tom]

Jerusha, in all honesty your attack on the K of C is unfounded. Let me first say I am not a member of the K of C, so I am not defending them for loyalty. You however are attacking, leveling unfounded charges. You stated:

Jerusha:

The Knights of Columbus’s charitable activities do NOTHING for the Hispanic and Indian populations of this country.

This is a lie, simply untrue. It can be proven untrue by researching the financial records of the K of C organizations, and yes they are required to keep financial records.

Jerusha:

Until they choose to focus on the problems there, they will continue to divide the American Catholic Church by honoring a man who had no respect for the HUMAN BEINGS he encountered in his explorations.

The K of C is not dividing the American Catholic Church. Your understanding of Columbus is definitely slanted and out of context. Would he be considered a model Catholic today? No, but was he considered so evil in the 15th century? No.

Jerusha:

Read Bartolome de las Casas’ writings, and the Journals of CC, take a look at the alienation of Hispanics and Indians from the Church. Your attitudes towards this issue are contributing to a major division in the Church.

Again in context please, in the context of the 21st century he, along with ALL of the explorers, would not be considered for sainthood.

Jerusha:

All voices must be heard.

So, if all voices must be heard why do you neglect the Asians? Or the eastern Europeans? Or the Africans, or any “group”?

Jerusha:

Divine Intervention at Guadalupe had more to do with the conversion of Mexico than the reading (in a language the people did not know) of a “be baptized or die” pronouncement that came directly from the horrors of the Inquisition.

I need to see this “be baptized or die pronouncement” to pass any kind of opinion on it.

Jerusha:

Are you aware of elderly people on reservations in the Dakotas who have no fuel to heat their homes in the winter?

I am also aware of homeless in New York City, Washington D.C., and every major city in the U.S., your point? The K of C caused this? Or should solve this?

Jerusha:

It is obvious to me that they are neglecting an area of great need.

Not obvious at all, why don’t you educate us as to what percentage of the total K of C budgets are devoted to these groups.
You level a lot of charges and I haven’t seen one shred of evidence.

 

[Jerusha]

All I have seen is a list of philanthropies, and work with American Indians is not included. I don’t have access to other data.

Not obvious at all, why don’t you educate us as to what percentage of the total K of C budgets are devoted to these groups.

Please educate me, K of C members.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Well, as I said before, since a majority of the KofC activities are done on the local council level, to get the information that you are looking for would require contacting all of the individual councils one by by.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The subject of the cover story of this month’s Columbia magazine is Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha. The main article can be found here:

Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha: A Remarkable Figure of Faith

Including this quote from Sister of St. Ann Kateri Mitchell:

“Kateri represented the bridging the two cultural traditions — the traditional [Native American] ways and Catholicism,” said Sister Kateri, who attended the Mass in April at the Kahnawake reserve. She comes from the very same Turtle Clan of the Mohawk nation that Kateri grew up in.

According to Sister Kateri, while some Native American purists might not want to recognize a Christian Indian, most Native Americans respect her memory and the Christian values she adopted. “The two traditions together have made me stronger personally,” she explained. “We have our traditional values and our Christian values, and I find the two are compatible in my life to walk the path in a stronger, more committed way.”

(Unfortunately not reproduced on the web version of the magazine is the sidebar, telling the story of how the Knights of Council 1216 in Crookston MN held a fish fry to raise $5000 for the Red Lake Mission following the Red Lake Indian Reservation school shooting tragedy on 22-March

The Knights’ donation and other funds are being used for the victims’ families as well as extended family and extended community needs, along with the daily needs of a mission parish and school.

)

 

[scm]

**The name stands for Catholics being the first in the Americas. The man Columbus may have been a bad guy, but remember he was the first one to discover America and he and his crew were Catholic. He was also always viewed as a heroe. **

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Mainly, they chose that because durring the time Catholics were being persecuted and seen as unpatriotic and a threat (as if the Pope was conquering) so they wanted to remind people about America’s Catholic roots and that Catholics can be good Americans.

Just a side note:
Those that we call Native American were the first to discover America. They came here from Asia. They were not Catholic. They established civilizations here.

Later, the Vikings came to America.

Later Columbus came to America and plundered it.

Soon Europeans of all kinds came and essentially destroyed those that they found here.

 

[dumspirospero]

What is the purpose of this post? Is it meant to inflame? I ask you a question…“Why would someone not want us to exist?” We justify our actions daily by our actions.

Exporter:

All of you Catholics know something about the Knights of Columbus. I have seen them pray before Mass, raise money for Seminaries and to offer various services.

Please give some reasons for the justification for the existance of the Knights of Columbus. Negative comments are welcome.