Knights of Columbus

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I just joined the Knights of Columbus after years of being asked by a few men at my parish. I am very active and so I got “hit up” many times and finally at one event they literally put the application in my hand and a pen in the other. I told them that I had a full plate but they said that if would be great if I joined since I didn’t really have to do any more than what I was already doing. So I signed up.

I knew very little about this organization besides the fact that they are a Catholic men’s group and they sponsor dances and pancake breakfasts. So I got a call to attend their 1st degree ceremony. So I went not really knowing what it entailed or what to expect. Now here is where my problem begins. At the very beginning of the ceremony they make us take an oath of secrecy. We are not allowed to tell anyone what takes place in the ceremony, not even our wives. I will not mention anything here but I will say that it was outside of what I had expected.

Now, when I got married I took a vow that my wife and I would become one flesh. This is what the bible teaches and being one means no secrets. How can a couple be united as one if half of the one is hiding things from the other half? Now I am aware that some things that might cause my wife grief I may withhold but not out of secrecy just out of prudence and love.

What kind of Christian organization would not allow a spouse to know what is going on? Isn’t marriage all about sharing our lives? Now, I was told that this is done so that future members would be able to experience the ceremonies to the fullest and get the most out of them. Really? I know how the Mass ends and I get the fullest out of it. I know how the bible ends and I read it everyday never feeling diminished. What is up with this secrecy?

Our Church that has been going though a scandal should be transparent and not allow any type of secret organization to be occupying its territory. I am already set on leaving this oragnization and will do so soon. I am just putting this out there if there can be anything that someone can offer me to make me rethink this “interesting” way of having men come together for the betterment of the faith. I find it bizzare and outdated. Any advice?

Oh and if anyone starts bashing me about my concerns then that is an automatic exit for me and will confirm all of my apprehensions… God bless… teachccd
 
First, let me say I am a female. Second, my late DH was a Knight. I was not involved with the Women’s League, simply because I did not have time for one more meeting.

When he died, it was the Knights who were the first to call to see what I needed. They were the ones to come over with a crew ready to work on my yard last spring to plant flowers, mow the yard, and generally do the winter clean up. They called every week for several months at the end of his hospitalization and after his death to see what I or my boys needed. They set up a benefit fund for me and my boys and then presented us with a check (quite substantial) to help with expenses. At the funeral, the Knights were there. They formed an honor guard. They gave me a listing of all the masses they requested be said for my husband that THEY set up over the next year.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for the Knights of Columbus.
 
I’ve been asked to join the Knights several times as well, since I attend Mass with my Catholic wife and son. Even if I were Catholic, though, I don’t think I’d join an organization that excludes people becasue of their religion. What kind of message would that send to my family, both the Catholics and non-Catholics? I wouldn’t join an organization that was limited to Caucasians for the same reason.
 
I think it depends on what the secrecy is for. Maybe they want to surprise people with good deeds or want to do good things but not get credit for them; they are doing it to please God, not for some kind of reward. Unless you are hurting people or are being asked to perform illegal activities I don’t see what’s so bad about keeping things secret.
 
Thank you but neither one of you addressed my question about the secrecy of the ceremonies. I have no doubt that they helped out in times of need. I joined because I know what good they do but I cannot get past the secrets that I cannot share with my wife. I have great respect for their community activites but I need someone to address my question about secrets. Thank you…
 
stephe1987 said:
I think it depends on what the secrecy is for. Maybe they want to surprise people with good deeds or want to do good things but not get credit for them; they are doing it to please God, not for some kind of reward. Unless you are hurting people or are being asked to perform illegal activities I don’t see what’s so bad about keeping things secret.
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That’s my point… why the secrets since they are not doing anything bad? Why am I sworn to not tell my wife of my experiences? There has to be something that I am not seeing here…And again I can understand that they want future members to have no idea of what they are doing but I can’t tell my wife? And I have to admit that the 1st degree ceremony was outside the box…
 
Ok , is it that hard not to tell your spouse about this ? Its not for her to care about anyway .I think you have the wrong idea about us . I am a proud 4th degree knight and like me I believe most of the brothers have no problem dealing with this issue.The knights of Columbus is a wonderful brotherhood Im proud to be a part of . We go to those meetings and vote on who to donate our money to . Its a charities organization dont forget that . We do for the less fortunate. Its more then pancake breakfast . And in case you did not know, the breakfast is to raise funds for our charities. I hope you re consider . Dont let one oath stop you from serving God . The knights is a way for men to serve GOd without becoming priests . Please think about what the organization is . Are you gonna turn down the opportunity of a life time ? By the way you were not supposed to even mention anything whatsoever about any degree.
 
teachccd said:
That’s my point… why the secrets since they are not doing anything bad? Why am I sworn to not tell my wife of my experiences? There has to be something that I am not seeing here…And again I can understand that they want future members to have no idea of what they are doing but I can’t tell my wife? And I have to admit that the 1st degree ceremony was outside the box…
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Catholic masonry? Is that what it brings to your mind?
 
Welcome brother Knight, I am glad you have joined and I hope that you will find some niche in the organization and like to stay.

Now about the secrecy. Only the ceremonials of the Order are secret. Our works and membership are not secret, and if you need to talk to someone about ceremonials, find someone who is in your degree or higher and speak to them confidentially. The ceremonials are secret for this reason: the impact of our degree ceremonies are powerful, and their significance is enhanced by not hearing rumor or even fact beforehand. If you forget what it was like in your own degree ceremony, then you are welcome to attend another one of the same ceremonies, in fact it is encouraged that brother Knights support each other when they are initiated. I personally have been to another first degree and I look forward to seeing again the second and third degrees. Believe me when I tell you that you will understand more of the impact of these ceremonies if you choose to progress in the Order.

Anyone in the first degree may attend Knights Council business meetings. These meetings are held regularly, usually once a month. Those in the fourth degree may also attend Assembly meetings. The business meetings are closed because there is discussion and voting that goes on. I am the Warden of my Council, and that means my primary duty is to check and verify all membership cards are current of those in the Council chambers.

Let me reassure you that there is no secrecy enjoined outside of the ceremonials. You are welcome to tell your friends that you are a Knight. You will be subscribed to the magazine, Columbia and you should also receive a news bulletin, KnightLine. These will inform you about all the benefits of the Order and the good works that we do, as well as the latest word from the Supreme Council and the Holy See. The Knights are known as the “strong right arm of the Church.” We are actively Pro-Life and we tend to be patriotic (the fourth degree’s charism is Patriotism, but that doesn’t prevent anyone else from honoring our country.) The Knights are active in many countries around the world, especially in the Americas and the surrounding islands. I hope you grow in solidarity with all our brother Knights as I have.
 
Defender1 said:
Ok , is it that hard not to tell your spouse about this ? Its not for her to care about anyway .I think you have the wrong idea about us . I am a proud 4th degree knight and like me I believe most of the brothers have no problem dealing with this issue.The knights of Columbus is a wonderful brotherhood Im proud to be a part of . We go to those meetings and vote on who to donate our money to . Its a charities organization dont forget that . We do for the less fortunate. Its more then pancake breakfast . And in case you did not know, the breakfast is to raise funds for our charities. I hope you re consider . Dont let one oath stop you from serving God . The knights is a way for men to serve GOd without becoming priests . Please think about what the organization is . Are you gonna turn down the opportunity of a life time ? By the way you were not supposed to even mention anything whatsoever about any degree.
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What did I mention? The secrecy is public knowledge as is everything that I mentioned. Just google what I said and it’s all there. I did not go into any specifics. Are you telling me that I cannot serve God outside of their organization? Now that is a bag of goods. I NEVER doubted the good that the Knights do. Your opening statement is what bothers me. It’s not for my wife to care about anyway? That is what a wedding vow is all about? Secrets? Is that how the Knights view their wives? You said most brothers have no problem with this but this one does. I can help out charities in many other ways as I have done for many years. I am not a priest and I have been serving God. You have not addressed my question as to why we cannot share this with the very person that we became one with in the sacrament of matrimony. I am not going to argue my point with those here who refuse to address my question. Thank you and your comment of my mentioning anything whatsoever about any degree substantiates the concern that I have here. And I did not mention anything about the 1st degree and if I did please copy and paste it in a reply…
 
Elizium23 said:
Welcome brother Knight, I am glad you have joined and I hope that you will find some niche in the organization and like to stay.

Now about the secrecy. Only the ceremonials of the Order are secret. Our works and membership are not secret, and if you need to talk to someone about ceremonials, find someone who is in your degree or higher and speak to them confidentially. The ceremonials are secret for this reason: the impact of our degree ceremonies are powerful, and their significance is enhanced by not hearing rumor or even fact beforehand. If you forget what it was like in your own degree ceremony, then you are welcome to attend another one of the same ceremonies, in fact it is encouraged that brother Knights support each other when they are initiated. I personally have been to another first degree and I look forward to seeing again the second and third degrees. Believe me when I tell you that you will understand more of the impact of these ceremonies if you choose to progress in the Order.

Anyone in the first degree may attend Knights Council business meetings. These meetings are held regularly, usually once a month. Those in the fourth degree may also attend Assembly meetings. The business meetings are closed because there is discussion and voting that goes on. I am the Warden of my Council, and that means my primary duty is to check and verify all membership cards are current of those in the Council chambers.

Let me reassure you that there is no secrecy enjoined outside of the ceremonials. You are welcome to tell your friends that you are a Knight. You will be subscribed to the magazine, Columbia and you should also receive a news bulletin, KnightLine. These will inform you about all the benefits of the Order and the good works that we do, as well as the latest word from the Supreme Council and the Holy See. The Knights are known as the “strong right arm of the Church.” We are actively Pro-Life and we tend to be patriotic (the fourth degree’s charism is Patriotism, but that doesn’t prevent anyone else from honoring our country.) The Knights are active in many countries around the world, especially in the Americas and the surrounding islands. I hope you grow in solidarity with all our brother Knights as I have.
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thank you for your kind words but I still cannot understand why I cannot share this with my wife. I would be overjoyed if that aspect were removed. I know about all of the good that the organization performs. Can someone here please tall me why I cannot share this experience with my wife even if she swears not to tell anyone? This seems contrary to a Christian understanding of the sacrament of matrimony. There are millions of guys who will keep secrets from their wives but when we became “one flesh” in marriage I am not one of them… So, should I just leave the K of C?
 
I was turned off by the very same thing years ago. I know the Knights do a lot of good work but I’m just not into that sort of thing.

when I was a kid, I didn’t join the Scouts for similar reasons.
 
corsair said:
I was turned off by the very same thing years ago. I know the Knights do a lot of good work but I’m just not into that sort of thing.

when I was a kid, I didn’t join the Scouts for similar reasons.
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Ok so I’m not talking out of the side of my head? Thank you…
 
You cannot share the ceremonials with anyone, even if you leave the organization. If you did not wish to make a promise of secrecy then you should not have attended the ceremony, or you should have left at the first opportunity. You now have a duty to protect what you know. This duty is because of your loyalty to the Church. Remember what Jesus said about following him [BIBLEDRB]Luke 14:26[/BIBLEDRB]
 
teachccd said:
So far, yes…
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I agree with your discomfort. I don’t like secrecy in clubs either. I tend to think that it’s either juvenile or nefarious. It doesn’t seem like it’s necessary to the function of the KofC and frankly this is the first I heard about it.

That comment - what’s it to your wife anyway? - was a shocker too. :confused:
 
Catholic90 said:
First, let me say I am a female. Second, my late DH was a Knight. I was not involved with the Women’s League, simply because I did not have time for one more meeting.

When he died, it was the Knights who were the first to call to see what I needed. They were the ones to come over with a crew ready to work on my yard last spring to plant flowers, mow the yard, and generally do the winter clean up. They called every week for several months at the end of his hospitalization and after his death to see what I or my boys needed. They set up a benefit fund for me and my boys and then presented us with a check (quite substantial) to help with expenses. At the funeral, the Knights were there. They formed an honor guard. They gave me a listing of all the masses they requested be said for my husband that THEY set up over the next year.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for the Knights of Columbus.
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I have respect and admiration too but we shouldn’t have to be members of the Knights of Columbus for this to happen or for us to be part of it.

I have asked my pastor on several occasions if he heeds help with some event or project, he says, “Oh, the nights have that taken care of.” That’s awsome. Really it is. But when I ask one of the knights if they need help, they reply with the question “Are you a knight?” and it ends there. I couldn’t help if I wanted to unless I’m a knight. And the one time I showed up anyway, I got badgered to join, I mean asked like fifty times, “Why arn’t you a night?”

The nights need to realize that the message they put forth, the message some of us are made to feel is that we can’t be real Christian men if we don’t join the nights. The constant badgering to join is sometimes worse than the Jehovah Witnesses. Enthusiasim is great but it’s like some cult. At least I don’t have to answer the door for the Jehovah Witnesses. And God forbid I should say something out loud, something like “Oh, the knights are not for everyone” - the reaction is like I insulted Jesus or something.
Defender1 said:
Please think about what the organization is . Are you gonna turn down the opportunity of a life time.
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This is a perfect example. Opportunity of a life time? That’s it? Will I never have an opportunity to serve my fellow man that matches the K of C? The K of C is it? Really?

The secrect oath makes it a non starter for me.

-Tim-
 
I do not think highly of the K of C and liken them to modern day Pharasees.
My father joined the K of C when I was a boy, and ultimately became an active 4th degree Knight for the rest of his adult life; likewise, my younger brother. Both of them were very active in the 4th degree and were always taking off from work to attend some function or other, quite often a funeral for a brother Knight.
I was a member in the Columbian Squires as a boy, but never joined the K of C.
When my father died, we notified his chapter in Miami, Fla. I grew up with the knowlege that the 4th degree always showed up for the wake and in full dress for the funeral of one of their brothers.
Only 3 Knights came to my fathers rosary. After the prayers, they apologized that no Knights would be able to attend his funeral because a past Grand Knight from out of town had died an they had to attend his funeral. In addition, I grew up being told that when a 4th degree Knight passed away the origanization would donate a chalice in his name to a needy parish. When I asked about this on my fathers death, I was told “Oh, we don’t do that any more.”
My brother was a past Grand Knight and when he died, I notified the K of C powers that be and was told that since his chapter no longer existed, and they really did not know him, they had no one to attend his funeral. However, his bar buddies from the local VFW and the American Legion saw fit to attend…So much for the pretentions of the K of C.
 
I too was approached by two members of the Parish who were Knights of Columbus but I politely declined. Without alot of undue criticism I will simply say that I felt that the organization was not for me. Perhaps it is not for you either. But I think it would be wrong to say that it is not for anyone. Some people need that kind of structure and regimentation, even if I don’t.
 
Disclaimer: I am a 3rd Degree knight

I would like to think that I understand your feelings about wanting to tell your wife, but if you don’t mind me asking, does it trouble her that you are not allowed to tell her what happened during the ceremony?

Also, with respect to recruiting, I know I pester all my devout Catholic friends about joining the Knights: I enjoy it and have gotten quite a bit out of it, and think they might likewise get something out of it. Does that make sense of the “aggressiveness” of the recruiting efforts?
 
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