Knights of Columbus

[karennascargo3]

Ok , is it that hard not to tell your spouse about this ? Its not for her to care about anyway.

As wife of a husband who’s also being badgered to join, this statement concerns me greatly.

It isn’t that I must know everything in my husband’s life, but that comment simply doesn’t set right with me. Is this the typically how all Knights feel?

My husband and I have been married for 40 years. I can’t imagine our being unable to discuss anything in our lives, let alone to take an oath to *someone outside of our marriage *, that we can’t discuss his “ceremony” to serve the Lord – because it’s no concern of mine???

Wow, that sure makes me want to run right up to him and encourage him to join — NOT!

It also bothers me that Knights have responded to the OP’s post; however, not a single one has yet to answer his question about this matter. It is a very legitimate question from a man who so obviously cherishes his marriage and is troubled by this.

 

[teachccd]

You cannot share the ceremonials with anyone, even if you leave the organization. If you did not wish to make a promise of secrecy then you should not have attended the ceremony, or you should have left at the first opportunity. You now have a duty to protect what you know. This duty is because of your loyalty to the Church. Remember what Jesus said about following him [bibledrb]Luke 14:26[/bibledrb]

I will not tell anyone but it’s not to do with my loyalty to the Church. This is an organization within the Church. The Knights reeled me in and it would have been VERY awkward to have walked out during the ceremony and you know that. Perhaps if the Knights would have been more upfront with this secrecy thing I would have never joined to begin with… And I do follow Jesus not some secret organization.

 

[teachccd]

I agree with your discomfort. I don’t like secrecy in clubs either. I tend to think that it’s either juvenile or nefarious. It doesn’t seem like it’s necessary to the function of the KofC and frankly this is the first I heard about it.

That comment - what’s it to your wife anyway? - was a shocker too.

I 100% agree. We are a Christian group that cares less about our wives?? I think not…

 

[teachccd]

I have respect and admiration too but we shouldn’t have to be members of the Knights of Columbus for this to happen or for us to be part of it.

I have asked my pastor on several occasions if he heeds help with some event or project, he says, “Oh, the nights have that taken care of.” That’s awsome. Really it is. But when I ask one of the knights if they need help, they reply with the question “Are you a knight?” and it ends there. I couldn’t help if I wanted to unless I’m a knight. And the one time I showed up anyway, I got badgered to join, I mean asked like fifty times, “Why arn’t you a night?”

The nights need to realize that the message they put forth, the message some of us are made to feel is that we can’t be real Christian men if we don’t join the nights. The constant badgering to join is sometimes worse than the Jehovah Witnesses. Enthusiasim is great but it’s like some cult. At least I don’t have to answer the door for the Jehovah Witnesses. And God forbid I should say something out loud, something like “Oh, the knights are not for everyone” - the reaction is like I insulted Jesus or something.

This is a perfect example. Opportunity of a life time? That’s it? Will I never have an opportunity to serve my fellow man that matches the K of C? The K of C is it? Really?

The secrect oath makes it a non starter for me.

-Tim-

Well stated. Thank you. I cannot believe what I am getting here from the members…

 

[teachccd]

I too was approached by two members of the Parish who were Knights of Columbus but I politely declined. Without alot of undue criticism I will simply say that I felt that the organization was not for me. Perhaps it is not for you either. But I think it would be wrong to say that it is not for anyone. Some people need that kind of structure and regimentation, even if I don’t.

Oh, I am not saying that it is not for everyone. I am just sayimg that a married man who joins a group that keeps secrets from his wife should be in question. This is not a Christian understanding of a marriage. And to this point none of my concern has been addressed… teachccd

 

[bmadamsberry]

thank you for your kind words but I still cannot understand why I cannot share this with my wife. I would be overjoyed if that aspect were removed. I know about all of the good that the organization performs. Can someone here please tall me why I cannot share this experience with my wife even if she swears not to tell anyone? This seems contrary to a Christian understanding of the sacrament of matrimony. There are millions of guys who will keep secrets from their wives but when we became “one flesh” in marriage I am not one of them… So, should I just leave the K of C?

There are some secrets that are okay for couples to keep from each other. For example, a married priest should not tell his wife about what people tell him in the confessional. Or maybe the wife is wearing an ugly outfit- the husband might not want to tell her that it’s ugly (but it might be prudent to tell her that it doesn’t look the best). You don’t have to tell your spouse what you confessed in the confessional. So there are some things that are okay to keep secret.

Secondly, the point of the secrecy is to keep the ceremony special. The ceremony loses some of its specialness when a lot of people know about it. I’m sure that your wife wouldn’t tell anyone, but it is alot easier to say “Don’t tell anyone” than “Don’t tell anyone, unless they swear not to tell anyone else”. After all, your wife might feel compelled to tell your children what happens at the ceremony, for the sake of being a unified family. The kids would swear not to tell anyone else, but when they get married maybe they’ll use the same argument that you did. As you can see, only telling one person rarely means only telling one person.

I hope that answers your question. If not, please let me know how my answered lacked merit, and I’ll explain better/differently or answer a clarifying question.

 

[teachccd]

Disclaimer: I am a 3rd Degree knight

I would like to think that I understand your feelings about wanting to tell your wife, but if you don’t mind me asking, does it trouble her that you are not allowed to tell her what happened during the ceremony?

Also, with respect to recruiting, I know I pester all my devout Catholic friends about joining the Knights: I enjoy it and have gotten quite a bit out of it, and think they might likewise get something out of it. Does that make sense of the “aggressiveness” of the recruiting efforts?

How it affects my wife is not in question here since we both do not keep secrets from each other. She does respect the fact that I have to keep this secret but that is not what our 30 year marriage was built upon. This is a ridiculous concept and should be eliminated. I’m sorry but I think that it is like a cult and contains fear and mind control… I respect your fervency in recruiting but please note that not every man wants to be a part of an organization that cannot even be upfront about what takes place. I was reeled in and then made to keep secrets from my wife. I would have never joined had I known that and this thread would have never existed…

 

[Elizium23]

I apologize that Knights have made you feel obligated to join the Order. I can understand the pressure, because even when you have joined, there is more pressure to progress to the Fourth Degree and pressure to volunteer for service projects and pressure to become an officer and a leader of committees. I would say that this is because of a strong work ethic in many Knights who have themselves become leaders and sometimes we expect others to share the committments. Sometimes many service projects are created with the unanimous assent of all Knights in a Council, but when it comes time to volunteer for the project, few step forward and we wonder why everyone thought it was such a great idea to take on a new project.

I can tell you that all Councils have a measure of freedom in the number and type of service projects they sponsor, and considerable freedom in their recruitment activities, but we do have a heirarchical structure that you can appeal to if you feel that a Knight has done wrong to you in any way. The first level is the local Council. Each council has a number, which is like a serial number given out at their foundation. This Council is headed by a Grand Knight. If certain Knights of the Council have given you undue pressure, then speak to them about it. If they cannot satisfy you, then speak to their Grand Knight, who is an elected official. Above the Council (or Assembly of 4th Degree) is the District. There is a District Deputy who should be well-known to the Council, and he should be responsive to any issue you have with the Council. The grouping of districts is a State Council. The State Deputy would be your point of contact at that level. Other territories such as provinces are organized like this as well. Above the State Council is the highest level, Supreme. The Supreme Council is the governing body of the Order and is composed of elected representatives from each jurisdiction. The current Supreme Knight is Carl A. Anderson. The Supreme Knight has broad duties and responsibilities in the Order worldwide. He is a well-known public figure.

I can tell you that there is considerable pressure from above to recruit new members. I was offered an award for which I had to fulfill various tasks. One task was to recruit a new member. If he made his First Degree within a year of mine, I would get credit for recruiting him. He waited a couple months before joining, and that was the only task I could not complete on time, so I did not get the award. Many awards are given out for recruiting 5, 10 or more members. One of the Knights in our council has received several of these awards. We are told to always carry a membership form and hand them out freely to Catholic men. Each new member requires a sponsor who will vouch for his character and suitability for the council. You should inform your sponsor or prospective sponsor that you have misgivings. Take the earliest opportunity to do this. Don’t sign anything or do anything unwillingly, this is not the intent of the Knights to press you into service. Membership has many benefits and we should be more than willing to discuss the benefits as well as the responsibilities of membership. Being a Knight has given me many opportunities for service to my community, to my parish, to seminarians, priests and religious, and to the whole Church. Being a Knight has also given me many opportunities to say “no thank you.” You have to be able to know when there is enough on your plate.

an organization that cannot even be upfront about what takes place

I understand your feelings but I would invite you to ask more questions. Any Knight should have been able to tell you that the ceremonials are secret. Once again, only the ceremonials are secret. The Knights are not a “secret society” or a “mystery cult” but we are an Order of the Faithful, canonically erected by the Holy See. Our Found, Fr. Michael J. McGivney, is a Servant of God, and has an open Cause for Sainthood for which we regularly pray. Many deacons, priests and bishops are members of the Order. We encourage respect for human life and respect for clergy and religious. We support families and communities and we have an excellent portfolio of insurance plans available to members. This is no fly-by-night and we are not trying to trick you or anyone about our membership or our goals.

 

[teachccd]

As wife of a husband who’s also being badgered to join, this statement concerns me greatly.

It isn’t that I must know everything in my husband’s life, but that comment simply doesn’t set right with me. Is this the typically how all Knights feel?

My husband and I have been married for 40 years. I can’t imagine our being unable to discuss anything in our lives, let alone to take an oath to *someone outside of our marriage *, that we can’t discuss his “ceremony” to serve the Lord – because it’s no concern of mine???

Wow, that sure makes me want to run right up to him and encourage him to join — NOT!

It also bothers me that Knights have responded to the OP’s post; however, not a single one has yet to answer his question about this matter. It is a very legitimate question from a man who so obviously cherishes his marriage and is troubled by this.

THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!! You are the ONLY one who addressed my concern and you are not a Knight. You fully understand my question and have the sense to state it from a wife’s point of view. It is obvious to me that this is not the organization for me or for any man who values the confidence that comes with being married. Yes, the response that I got from the Knights here shocked me more than when I started this thread. And, like you said, Not one person addressed my question. God bless you for seeing what almost everyone else here has been ignoring…teachccd

 

[bmadamsberry]

I have asked my pastor on several occasions if he heeds help with some event or project, he says, “Oh, the nights have that taken care of.” That’s awsome. Really it is. But when I ask one of the knights if they need help, they reply with the question “Are you a knight?” and it ends there. I couldn’t help if I wanted to unless I’m a knight. And the one time I showed up anyway, I got badgered to join, I mean asked like fifty times, “Why arn’t you a night?”

I’m sorry that your experience happend. Most Knights are not like that. I experience a similar thing with some ex-Catholics, who don’t like the Catholic Church because of a bad experience that they’ve had (as opposed to something that the Catholic Church believes).

The nights need to realize that the message they put forth, the message some of us are made to feel is that we can’t be real Christian men if we don’t join the nights. The constant badgering to join is sometimes worse than the Jehovah Witnesses. Enthusiasim is great but it’s like some cult. At least I don’t have to answer the door for the Jehovah Witnesses. And God forbid I should say something out loud, something like “Oh, the knights are not for everyone” - the reaction is like I insulted Jesus or something.

This is an unfortunate message that comes across from some Knights, but by no means is a message of the Knights of Columbus itself.

This is a perfect example. Opportunity of a life time? That’s it? Will I never have an opportunity to serve my fellow man that matches the K of C? The K of C is it? Really?

Opportunity of a Life Time is a slogan. Like most slogans, it’s obviously a hyperbole. After all, there are other great experiences (like joining the Church itself!). But that doesn’t sound as good (Opportunity of a Life Time… aside from joining the Church, marriage, the birth of your kids, the Eucharist, Heaven, etc.)

 

[bmadamsberry]

I do not think highly of the K of C and liken them to modern day Pharasees.

Wow, that’s pretty harsh! I do hope that you realize that, because of your experience with one KofC council, you have judged all Knights!

Only 3 Knights came to my fathers rosary. After the prayers, they apologized that no Knights would be able to attend his funeral because a past Grand Knight from out of town had died an they had to attend his funeral. In addition, I grew up being told that when a 4th degree Knight passed away the origanization would donate a chalice in his name to a needy parish. When I asked about this on my fathers death, I was told “Oh, we don’t do that any more.”
My brother was a past Grand Knight and when he died, I notified the K of C powers that be and was told that since his chapter no longer existed, and they really did not know him, they had no one to attend his funeral. However, his bar buddies from the local VFW and the American Legion saw fit to attend…So much for the pretentions of the K of C.

I’m sorry that this happened, but this is not how all Knights are. My family has has problems with the VFW and the American Legion similar to yours… but by no means do we make a blatant judgement of all VFW and American Legions.

 

[teachccd]

There are some secrets that are okay for couples to keep from each other. For example, a married priest should not tell his wife about what people tell him in the confessional. Or maybe the wife is wearing an ugly outfit- the husband might not want to tell her that it’s ugly (but it might be prudent to tell her that it doesn’t look the best). You don’t have to tell your spouse what you confessed in the confessional. So there are some things that are okay to keep secret.

Secondly, the point of the secrecy is to keep the ceremony special. The ceremony loses some of its specialness when a lot of people know about it. I’m sure that your wife wouldn’t tell anyone, but it is alot easier to say “Don’t tell anyone” than “Don’t tell anyone, unless they swear not to tell anyone else”. After all, your wife might feel compelled to tell your children what happens at the ceremony, for the sake of being a unified family. The kids would swear not to tell anyone else, but when they get married maybe they’ll use the same argument that you did. As you can see, only telling one person rarely means only telling one person.

I hope that answers your question. If not, please let me know how my answered lacked merit, and I’ll explain better/differently or answer a clarifying question.

Your first paragraph was addressed in my first post about what might be kept secret for prudence and love. You need to review post number 1. Confession is a sacrament and is granted by Christ. The seal is kept because the sins are between the pennitent and God. You cannot compare a Sacramental seal with a secret oath taken in an organization. Sorry.

My wife can be trusted. If she couldn’t then we wouldn’t be having this conversation now would we? You can continue to give me reasons why I should not uphole my marriage vows but what God has joined together let no man pull apart. Especially an organization…

 

[ZDHayden]

If I may voice my opinions:

I would first like to state that I am a first degree Knight, newly joined in a new council. I am also a university student. I joined because of very simple reasons: my family is rather low-income, by brother has two forms of muscular dystrophy which he is dying of and my mother is dying of ovarian cancer. Such has given me a keen desire to try to help, even in small ways, as much as possible. Joining the Knights allows me to help others - since I cannot heal my family, and can only entrust them to God - in such a way that is more efficient and potent than working alone; the loyalty of the Knights to the Church also helps enormously over local charities. I honestly do not intend to become involved in Knights politics unless I have to.

I will say that I do not quite approve of the “aggressive” recruiting tactics used by some Knights, as, after a while, such tactics become at worst erosive and at best annoying. Joining anything after one’s will has been eroded away is unhealthy in the long-run and dishonest in the short-term on the part of the organization’s representatives.

Concerning your question directly:

Please remember (I do not mean to sound condescending, but simply wish to remind you of this premise before continuing) that silence is itself a form of discipline, which is sorely lacking in today’s society.

Remember also that many Knights possibly have never thought twice about the secrecy. I have, but in the rush of Finals last semester, a lazy Christmas break, and trying to keep everything balanced out, I have probably forgotten most of my reflections. Allow me to share those which I remember:

I. First, if the KofC is an organization, it should follow the same premises that all organizations follow which are:

1. The organization can create any rules of governance within the bounds of local, provential, national and international law.
2. Participants in said organization, upon receiving membership, submit themselves to the rules of governance of the organization to which they belong.
   KofC is an organization, therefore premises 1 and 2 apply to KofC.

II. Among the rules of the KofC, as I understand them as presented on their website, is the focus upon certain principles of socio-moral value. These principles each have unique meanings for the KofC, and is the formative force for the men involved in that organization. While the principles themselves may be publicly known, the lessons derived from those principles are not, for the reason mentioned above. If the lessons are publicly divulged, then the entire purpose of membership is thwarted (and in the case of the KofC, it means no more dues, and thus no more operating income, and thus no more operation).

III. Part of the purpose of the secrecy is for the service of the Church, who is our first obligation. That is not to say that those not part of the KofC cannot serve the Church (such a statement is ludicrous), but rather, given the unique position of the KofC, unique considerations must be made.

IV. Given that the Knights of Columbus follows the traditions of knighthood in mediaeval Europe (an obvious statement given the organization’s name, its activities, and information publicly revealed), secrecy of the finer points of the organization is a natural development from similar occurrences in mediaeval knighthood.

That is all I can recall at the moment. I hope this helped in some way.

 

[teachccd]

I apologize that Knights have made you feel obligated to join the Order. I can understand the pressure, because even when you have joined, there is more pressure to progress to the Fourth Degree and pressure to volunteer for service projects and pressure to become an officer and a leader of committees. I would say that this is because of a strong work ethic in many Knights who have themselves become leaders and sometimes we expect others to share the committments. Sometimes many service projects are created with the unanimous assent of all Knights in a Council, but when it comes time to volunteer for the project, few step forward and we wonder why everyone thought it was such a great idea to take on a new project.

I can tell you that all Councils have a measure of freedom in the number and type of service projects they sponsor, and considerable freedom in their recruitment activities, but we do have a heirarchical structure that you can appeal to if you feel that a Knight has done wrong to you in any way. The first level is the local Council. Each council has a number, which is like a serial number given out at their foundation. This Council is headed by a Grand Knight. If certain Knights of the Council have given you undue pressure, then speak to them about it. If they cannot satisfy you, then speak to their Grand Knight, who is an elected official. Above the Council (or Assembly of 4th Degree) is the District. There is a District Deputy who should be well-known to the Council, and he should be responsive to any issue you have with the Council. The grouping of districts is a State Council. The State Deputy would be your point of contact at that level. Other territories such as provinces are organized like this as well. Above the State Council is the highest level, Supreme. The Supreme Council is the governing body of the Order and is composed of elected representatives from each jurisdiction. The current Supreme Knight is Carl A. Anderson. The Supreme Knight has broad duties and responsibilities in the Order worldwide. He is a well-known public figure.

I can tell you that there is considerable pressure from above to recruit new members. I was offered an award for which I had to fulfill various tasks. One task was to recruit a new member. If he made his First Degree within a year of mine, I would get credit for recruiting him. He waited a couple months before joining, and that was the only task I could not complete on time, so I did not get the award. Many awards are given out for recruiting 5, 10 or more members. One of the Knights in our council has received several of these awards. We are told to always carry a membership form and hand them out freely to Catholic men. Each new member requires a sponsor who will vouch for his character and suitability for the council. You should inform your sponsor or prospective sponsor that you have misgivings. Take the earliest opportunity to do this. Don’t sign anything or do anything unwillingly, this is not the intent of the Knights to press you into service. Membership has many benefits and we should be more than willing to discuss the benefits as well as the responsibilities of membership. Being a Knight has given me many opportunities for service to my community, to my parish, to seminarians, priests and religious, and to the whole Church. Being a Knight has also given me many opportunities to say “no thank you.” You have to be able to know when there is enough on your plate.

I understand your feelings but I would invite you to ask more questions. Any Knight should have been able to tell you that the ceremonials are secret. Once again, only the ceremonials are secret. The Knights are not a “secret society” or a “mystery cult” but we are an Order of the Faithful, canonically erected by the Holy See. Our Found, Fr. Michael J. McGivney, is a Servant of God, and has an open Cause for Sainthood for which we regularly pray. Many deacons, priests and bishops are members of the Order. We encourage respect for human life and respect for clergy and religious. We support families and communities and we have an excellent portfolio of insurance plans available to members. This is no fly-by-night and we are not trying to trick you or anyone about our membership or our goals.

Thank you for your kind word and honest explanation. Again, I am not knocking anything about the organization except for the secret ceremonies and only because I cannot share them with my soul mate. Again I thank you and will consider your recommendations. God bless you.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Your first paragraph was addressed in my first post about what might be kept secret for prudence and love. You need to review post number 1. Confession is a sacrament and is granted by Christ. The seal is kept because the sins are between the pennitent and God. You cannot compare a Sacramental seal with a secret oath taken in an organization. Sorry.

I guess something didn’t come across. I wasn’t comparing a Sacramental seal with a secret oath taken in an organization. Rather, my entire point was that there are, indeed, some secrets that can be kept. Because there are some secrets that can be kept (like for prudence), then keeping secrets is not contrary to the marital vows. Am I right or wrong? Secret keeping is not contrary to marital vows or being “one flesh”.

My wife can be trusted. If she couldn’t then we wouldn’t be having this conversation now would we? You can continue to give me reasons why I should not uphole my marriage vows but what God has joined together let no man pull apart. Especially an organization…

I believe that your wife can be trusted. Again, my point was probably not expressed very well. My main point was that it is a blanket promise not to tell because it would be too difficult to build in the exceptions.

Now, one might be able to argue morally whether you would need to keep the promise. One could argue, I think, that if it would destroy a marriage not to tell one’s wife, then the lesser of the two evils is to tell your wife.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your points, and as a result am not answering your question.

 

[bmadamsberry]

I will not tell anyone but it’s not to do with my loyalty to the Church. This is an organization within the Church. The Knights reeled me in and it would have been VERY awkward to have walked out during the ceremony and you know that. Perhaps if the Knights would have been more upfront with this secrecy thing I would have never joined to begin with… And I do follow Jesus not some secret organization.

Well, it’s not actually an organization within the Church. It’s an organization that is, indeed, Catholic. However, it is very much outside the Church. It receives no funds from the Church, nor is it governed by any priest, bishop, or pope.

The Knights should have been more upfront with you, and in my experiences they are. They weren’t with you, and they should have been.

 

[teachccd]

If I may voice my opinions:

I would first like to state that I am a first degree Knight, newly joined in a new council. I am also a university student. I joined because of very simple reasons: my family is rather low-income, by brother has two forms of muscular dystrophy which he is dying of and my mother is dying of ovarian cancer. Such has given me a keen desire to try to help, even in small ways, as much as possible. Joining the Knights allows me to help others - since I cannot heal my family, and can only entrust them to God - in such a way that is more efficient and potent than working alone; the loyalty of the Knights to the Church also helps enormously over local charities. I honestly do not intend to become involved in Knights politics unless I have to.

I will say that I do not quite approve of the “aggressive” recruiting tactics used by some Knights, as, after a while, such tactics become at worst erosive and at best annoying. Joining anything after one’s will has been eroded away is unhealthy in the long-run and dishonest in the short-term on the part of the organization’s representatives.

Concerning your question directly:

Please remember (I do not mean to sound condescending, but simply wish to remind you of this premise before continuing) that silence is itself a form of discipline, which is sorely lacking in today’s society.

Remember also that many Knights possibly have never thought twice about the secrecy. I have, but in the rush of Finals last semester, a lazy Christmas break, and trying to keep everything balanced out, I have probably forgotten most of my reflections. Allow me to share those which I remember:

I. First, if the KofC is an organization, it should follow the same premises that all organizations follow which are:

1. The organization can create any rules of governance within the bounds of local, provential, national and international law.
2. Participants in said organization, upon receiving membership, submit themselves to the rules of governance of the organization to which they belong.
   KofC is an organization, therefore premises 1 and 2 apply to KofC.

II. Among the rules of the KofC, as I understand them as presented on their website, is the focus upon certain principles of socio-moral value. These principles each have unique meanings for the KofC, and is the formative force for the men involved in that organization. While the principles themselves may be publicly known, the lessons derived from those principles are not, for the reason mentioned above. If the lessons are publicly divulged, then the entire purpose of membership is thwarted (and in the case of the KofC, it means no more dues, and thus no more operating income, and thus no more operation).

III. Part of the purpose of the secrecy is for the service of the Church, who is our first obligation. That is not to say that those not part of the KofC cannot serve the Church (such a statement is ludicrous), but rather, given the unique position of the KofC, unique considerations must be made.

IV. Given that the Knights of Columbus follows the traditions of knighthood in mediaeval Europe (an obvious statement given the organization’s name, its activities, and information publicly revealed), secrecy of the finer points of the organization is a natural development from similar occurrences in mediaeval knighthood.

That is all I can recall at the moment. I hope this helped in some way.

First off let me say that your brother and your mother are in my prayers. Again, I just have to say that I’m stuck on not being able to share with my wife all the things of my faith when having to keep secret the events of the ceremonies. You didn’t mention if you are married and if not then you cannot understand the bond between a committed man and women in the marital bond. I am simply stating that I do not find it very Christian to force a husband to withhold something that is promoting the faith. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I’ve pretty much exhausted my claim and I will discern what I need to do. thank you so much for your kind words and your intent to help. Keep up the good work and I know that you are in the right place. But one place is not necessarily right for all so that is what I need to think about. God bless you… teachccd

 

[bmadamsberry]

Oh, I am not saying that it is not for everyone. I am just sayimg that a married man who joins a group that keeps secrets from his wife should be in question. This is not a Christian understanding of a marriage. And to this point none of my concern has been addressed… teachccd

What it seems you are saying (at least to me), is that secrets are incompatible with marriage. In your 1st post, you said that there are cases in which people can keep secrets:

Now I am aware that some things that might cause my wife grief I may withhold but not out of secrecy just out of prudence and love

So the question should be not whether secrets are compatible with a marriage, but rather if this particular secret can be compatible with marraige. Is that a correct understanding of the question?

 

[teachccd]

Well, it’s not actually an organization within the Church. It’s an organization that is, indeed, Catholic. However, it is very much outside the Church. It receives no funds from the Church, nor is it governed by any priest, bishop, or pope.

The Knights should have been more upfront with you, and in my experiences they are. They weren’t with you, and they should have been.

Thank you for the clarification and I agree. God bless you…teachccd

 

[bmadamsberry]

I am simply stating that I do not find it very Christian to force a husband to withhold something that is promoting the faith. It makes absolutely no sense to me.\

Maybe you didn’t mean this, or maybe I am misunderstanding you. However, the early Church required a spouse to keep the Mass and the Mysteries (Sacraments) secret from a non-Catholic spouse. Was this not “very Christian”?