Knocked Up

[edwest2]

Didn’t you see the review I responded to? The guidance of the Bishops matters to me. An anti-abortion message is fine, but I will not pay money to hear cussing and swearing and see things that are unGodly.

God bless,
Ed

 

[martinporres]

edwest2, I think it’s simply the air of ‘good Catholics won’t see this film’ that is off-putting. If that’s not what you’re implying, I apologize for misinterpreting.

I believe I’m a good Catholic, and I saw and was entertained by the film.

(Believe me, I’m not saying the movie should be hailed as a proselytizing tool – I don’t think that’s the point. But if it causes a single person to rethink their position on the holocaust of our age, it has done a good job.)

In Christ,
mp

 

[edwest2]

As the Bishops’ review clearly informed Catholics about the offensive nature of this movie, I feel clearly motivated to avoid it. I’d prefer to have an anti-abortion message delivered in a less offensive way. The most foul-mouthed, sex oriented comedian can say the occasional “good” thing but that does not negate the fact that 98 % of whatever he or she says is complete unGodly garbage.

If Catholics are going to act just like non-Catholics, how are we the salt of the earth? How are we living our beliefs?

God bless,
Ed

 

[Cat]

edwest2, I don’t plan on seeing Knocked Up because I don’t like swearing and filthy jokes.

You ask how we can be salt of the earth if we act just like non-Catholics.

If a Catholic attends Knocked Up, he/she is not acting like a non-Catholic just for attending. IF he/she revelled in the swearing and jokes and started telling them to all his/her friends and living the party lifestyle and doing one-night stands and forsaking the Lord to be able to do all these things, THEN he/she would be acting just like a non-Catholic.

But to just attend a movie is NOT acting non-Catholic.

Think about it this way: those people who reviewed the movie for the Bishops had to go see the movie. They weren’t acting non-Catholic.

By attending this movie, Catholics will be able to talk knowledgeably with non-Catholics about the movie. They will be able to say things like, “So, even though there were a lot of dirty jokes in the movie, I sure loved the anti-abortion message. How about you, buddy?”

What an opener for a great deep discussion with a non-Catholic!

And I think that such a conversation would eventually get around to questions like, “Why do people use words like that? Don’t you think those words are violent?” and “I really don’t think jokes about sex/women are very funny. I love a good clean joke. E.g., have you heard the one about the minister and the horse?” (Proceed to tell the good clean joke and demonstrate that humor doesn’t have to be dirty or raunchy.)

This kind of conversation doesn’t have to be holier-than-thou. The fact that you have taken the time to actually see the movie gives you more credibility in the discussion.

In John 4, Jesus uses this “common ground” approach to talk to the woman at the well. He didn’t commit any sin by talking to her, even though His disciples were scandalized by his actions! He talked about things that were important to her, and gradually led the conversation around to heavenly things and the importance of believing in Him.

I think that if Catholics are just seeing the movie for a good time, then perhaps they need to re-examine just why they have a good time with stuff like swearing, sex, partying, etc. A steady diet of this kind of thing night after night, week after week, is bound to cause problems in your soul.

But if they are seeing it so that they can better understand other people in our American culture, or so that they can engage in meaningful conversations with their neighbor or with their own children, then I say, “See the movie–with discernment and with the Holy Spirit sitting in the seat next to you helping you to see the movie through God’s eyes.”

I think it would be especially important for someone who has a ministry with young people to see this movie so that they are educated about what the young people are going through in American culture.

I suppose you will say that you don’t need to dig through trash to talk about God. You could be right. But as you know, a good missionary will become very familiar with the culture that he/she is ministering in. They will immerse themselves in it, even learning about the evils in that culture, so that they are better equipped to be “the salt of the earth.”

Again, I’m not planning on seeing this movie until they get the “cleaned-up” version on TV. But I’m glad that it is pro-life. Most of the people seeing the movie are NOT Catholic or Christian, and pro-life messages are extremely rare out of Hollywood in this day and age. If the pro-life message is hidden in a garbage can, that’s better than not being there at all. And it’s better than the baby ending up in a garbage can. Maybe this movie will make one woman somewhere choose life for her baby, even though all the other tracts and Bible verses and preaching have failed to touch her heart.

 

[edwest2]

I made it a point to explain why “I” am not seeing this movie. The problem, as I see it, is that I know too many Christians who have forgotten about the line that they should not cross. The secular culture teaches: “What’s the big deal?” I would encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ to not imitate the world.

And I want to be blunt. As the title of this section is “Popular Media,” I have to ask, why can it be popular among Catholics? I think it’s important to say: “My fellow Catholics, are you going to leer at Katherine Haigl?”

Sure, as far as having a Ministry, especially to young people, it is important to know what they watch and how it affects them. The woman at the well? Jesus knew everything there was to know about her. She had five husbands. And Jesus ate with sinners and prostitutes since it was they, not the righteous, that needed a physician.

God bless,
Ed

 

[martinporres]

Ed, I understand your point. And you’ve given me food for thought.

My “ministry” if you want to call it that is to all my friends and family, whom for the most part, excepting DW, are all non-Catholics and probably Christian in name only. I can say I’m happy to have seen this movie so I can discuss it with them on a friendly level, to better expose the underlying Christian ideals which can be gleaned from it – and, believe it or not, to use as another piece of my (hopefully successful) witness of Christian love to them.

I know you haven’t seen the film, but profanity and vulgarity aside, what you have here in this movie is basically two sinners coming to the realization their actions have consequences that affect another, NEW human being. And they do the right thing because they see this – the law of nature engrained by God on their hearts that we hope to see in those who don’t know Christ.

It’s not high art, certainly not tasteful, but not un-Christian in its core message either. That’s all I’m saying.

In Christ,
mp

 

[kamz]

edwest2, I think it’s simply the air of ‘good Catholics won’t see this film’ that is off-putting. If that’s not what you’re implying, I apologize for misinterpreting.

I believe I’m a good Catholic, and I saw and was entertained by the film.

(Believe me, I’m not saying the movie should be hailed as a proselytizing tool – I don’t think that’s the point. But if it causes a single person to rethink their position on the holocaust of our age, it has done a good job.)

In Christ,
mp

I agree:thumbsup:

 

[kamz]

Ed, I understand your point. And you’ve given me food for thought.

My “ministry” if you want to call it that is to all my friends and family, whom for the most part, excepting DW, are all non-Catholics and probably Christian in name only. I can say I’m happy to have seen this movie so I can discuss it with them on a friendly level, to better expose the underlying Christian ideals which can be gleaned from it – and, believe it or not, to use as another piece of my (hopefully successful) witness of Christian love to them.

I know you haven’t seen the film, but profanity and vulgarity aside, what you have here in this movie is basically two sinners coming to the realization their actions have consequences that affect another, NEW human being. And they do the right thing because they see this – the law of nature engrained by God on their hearts that we hope to see in those who don’t know Christ.

It’s not high art, certainly not tasteful, but not un-Christian in its core message either. That’s all I’m saying.

In Christ,
mp

Excellent Point

 

[TheGoodLife]

Interesting discussion. I can understand both sides. When I saw the previews for this movie, at first blush I was offended that they’d make a comedy out of such a serious situation (and I’m not easily offended). My husband, on the other hand, laughed his head off and wants to see the movie when it comes out on DVD. And he’s more of a Catholic than I am. Go figure.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I understand the point that “Knocked Up” has a pro-life message, and I really do think that’s great. But at the same time it hides the reality that a vast majority of the time a woman in that situation would abort her child. The very sad fact is that a woman who had a one night stand with an incompetent father figure is unlikely to raise her child and involve the incompetent man.

I haven’t seen the film, so I would like to ask of those who have: Are the struggles of facing an unwed pregnancy depicted?

 

[Wollie]

the struggles are what the entire movie is about!
its really about the incompetent man realizing he is about to have a child… so he needs to stop acting like one. Minus the vulgarity this is a great movie, but not a kids movie. If a hilarious movie with a great message out weighs the intensense vulgarity, i would defiantly recommend it to you!

 

[martinporres]

I haven’t seen the film, so I would like to ask of those who have: Are the struggles of facing an unwed pregnancy depicted?

Oh yes, in a sense. The mother is an aspiring entertainment journalist (to use the term loosely) in Hollywood, of all places, – so there’s definitely the career factor. In one of the more disgusting and uncomfortable scenes, the mother of the expectant mother is urging her to have an abortion – very matter of factly – because of all the damage it would do to her career and body*(!)*. We don’t see more of this evil grandmother apart from that one scene, but she is certainly not painted in a favorable light. Considering the nature of the film, I can’t help but think that’s completely intentional.

But at the same time it hides the reality that a vast majority of the time a woman in that situation would abort her child.

That may be the case, and it certainly has truthiness. In this case though, I think it’s equally important to say that this particular piece of popular art has depicted an “idealer” path, rather than glorify a bad one. That’s the best we can hope for with popular secular art.

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And thanks for the propers, kamz!

mp

 

[kamz]

Oh yes, in a sense. The mother is an aspiring entertainment journalist (to use the term loosely) in Hollywood, of all places, – so there’s definitely the career factor. In one of the more disgusting and uncomfortable scenes, the mother of the expectant mother is urging her to have an abortion – very matter of factly – because of all the damage it would do to her career and body*(!)*. We don’t see more of this evil grandmother apart from that one scene, but she is certainly not painted in a favorable light. Considering the nature of the film, I can’t help but think that’s completely intentional.

That may be the case, and it certainly has truthiness. In this case though, I think it’s equally important to say that this particular piece of popular art has depicted an “idealer” path, rather than glorify a bad one. That’s the best we can hope for with popular secular art.

---

And thanks for the propers, kamz!

mp

I’m looking forward to seeing it, I myself was pregnant and unmarried 15 yrs ago, my hubby and I got married when I was five months pregnant. I have given my life over to the Lord since that time but at that time I had not and life was a very hard struggle for me, I have asked for forgiveness over 14 yrs ago in confession for the sins that I committed in living with my “then fiance” now my husband and I totally have regret for all of it, but I know that I am forgiven. Maybe people who have never walked in this situation just can’t understand, but I have lived it and yes, it is over and I know I am forgiven but you never forget, and I’m interested to see what I can learn from this movie to help others in discussion of these things.

 

[JimG]

I’m looking forward to seeing it, I myself was pregnant and unmarried 15 yrs ago, my hubby and I got married when I was five months pregnant. I have given my life over to the Lord since that time but at that time I had not and life was a very hard struggle for me, I have asked for forgiveness over 14 yrs ago in confession for the sins that I committed in living with my “then fiance” now my husband and I totally have regret for all of it, but I know that I am forgiven. Maybe people who have never walked in this situation just can’t understand, but I have lived it and yes, it is over and I know I am forgiven but you never forget, and I’m interested to see what I can learn from this movie to help others in discussion of these things.

I’d be interested to know how well this movie relates to your own experiences. Perhaps you could report back. And may God bless you for all the struggles you have overcome.

 

[kamz]

I’d be interested to know how well this movie relates to your own experiences. Perhaps you could report back. And may God bless you for all the struggles you have overcome.

thank you!

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Here are a 2 links that are related to the subject:
This one is a decree from the vatican, below is a quote
DECREE ON THE MEDIA OF SOCIAL COMMUNICATIONS INTER MIRIFICA
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY
HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI
ON DECEMBER 4, 1963

“All who, of their own free choice, make use of these media of communications as readers, viewers or listeners have special obligations. For a proper choice demands that they fully favor those presentations that are outstanding for their moral goodness, their knowledge and their artistic or technical merit. They ought, however, to **void those **that may be a cause or occasion of spiritual harm to themselves, or that can lead others into danger through base example, or that hinder desirable presentations and promote those that are evil. To patronize such presentations, in most instances, would merely reward those who use these media only for profit.
In order that those who make use of these media may fulfill the moral code, they **ought not to neglect to inform themselves **in time about judgments passed by authorities competent in these matters. They ought also to follow such judgments according to the norms of an upright conscience. So that they may more easily resist improper inducements and rather encourage those that are desirable, let them take care to guide and instruct their consciences with suitable aids.”

Article Catholic Exchange

I really don’t agree with the rationale that swallowing a bunch of trash is not harmful, even if there is a porterhouse Wagyu beef steak somewhere in there.

 

[Cat]

You don’t have to swallow the trash. You just push it aside while looking for that steak.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

You don’t have to swallow the trash. You just push it aside while looking for that steak.

I disagree, to some degree you are swallowing trash when watching a morally reprehensible film. If nothing else, it desensitizes the viewer. It can have a negative effect on people, whether they realize it or not. Here is an excerpt from a letter by Pius XII to REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CINEMA WORLD.

“…the internal dynamisms of the spectator’s ego, in the depths of his nature, of his subconscious and unconscious mind, can lead him thus to the realm of light, of the noble and beautiful, just as they can bring him under the sway of darkness and depravation, at the mercy of powerful and uncontrolled instincts, depending on whether the picture plays up and arouses the qualities of one or the other field, and focuses on it the attention, the desires and psychic impulses. Human nature’s condition is such, in fact, that not always do the spectators possess or preserve the spiritual energy, the interior detachment, and frequently, too, the strength of will, to resist a captivating suggestion, and thus the capacity to control and direct themselves.”
“…the moving picture, as has been noted, can incline the soul of the viewer to good or to evil…”

 

[Wollie]

what about the works of Flannery O’Connor…
she uses the ugly side of man to show redemption.

I would say this movie is much the same.
The main character starts out as a pot head who has never taken responiblity. At he end he choses to read baby books over partying with his friends. He gets a job and really grows up.

It is important in understanding redemption, to be aware of the brokeness.

I do agree that pointless vulgarity and sexual jokes are not appropriat for anyone. But that is not what this movie is.