Know any Protestant Catholics?

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qubica

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I’ve been a fan of Catholic Answers since I was the organist at St. John the Evangelist in San Diego, it was the church that Karl Keating attended and it was exposure to “This Rock” and other documents at the church that helped my reversion to Catholicism, the Holy Spirit was responsible for the rest! I’d returned to the one true Church back in 2003 and I’ve never regretted it.

One challenge though…

We moved to a small community in Washington State and I got involved in the parish and a small men’s group. While we’ve been reading scripture passages and talking a bit about them, I discovered that quite a few of the men are nominal Catholics.

When I would mention a church doctrine as a matter of fact, I was surprised to find that the group, almost as a whole, argued AGAINST the Church’s teaching authority on several matters. And they even defended Protestantism to a degree.

One gentleman pulled me over the next Sunday, right after Mass and explained that it didn’t matter if you were a Muslim or Buddhist, if you loved God and were good you would have salvation. I didn’t have the heart to tell him that Buddhists don’t believe in God…There was so much to teach and explain, that there was not near enough time to even start before his wife called him away.

The crux of the matter…I am torn in continuing to attend this group. I was hoping to find Catholic gentlemen who practiced obedience and faithfulness to our faith. But instead I found Protestant Catholics who are mostly ignorant of church teaching, and I cannot and will not keep my mouth shut when a Catholic speaks contrary to the faith and church that Christ gave us.

Should I attend and look for opportunities to evangelize my fellow Catholics, or should I use that time deepen my faith personally, or do some corporal act of mercy? It’s disheartening to have to defend Catholicism to Catholics.

I continue to pray about this, but I want to know if this is fairly common in the Church and how different people have handled this situation.
 
As a New Catholic who whenever I hear something I go running to the Catechism to verify that it is Church doctrine since i don’t want to get misguided.

What I have found at least in Maryland is that most Cradle Catholics follow misguided paths and false info.

Such as I heard a Woman in her 50’s think Obama was the Antichrist…
… more or less a Protestant view that everyone is the Antichrist (Bill Gates, Pope John Paul 2):banghead:

Or Catholics who mention the “Left Behind” stuff
…Sorry once again Protestant circa 1830ish

But not trying to offend someone and yet not leave them
  1. Believing in this false info
  2. Teaching young Catholics non doctrinal things
the best thing is to say

“hey you proclaim to be Catholic and as a Catholic you should be aware that the teachings you guy’s subscribe to are not in the Catechism”

Next time you go to this meeting and they start spouting out False info be like hold on guys lets see what the official Church doctrine is… that should clear up every misconception they may have…

Peace be with you always
:crossrc:
EC
 
qubica said:
Should I attend and look for opportunities to evangelize my fellow Catholics…
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I think it depends on the purpose of the mens group. Are they meeting for the purpose of Bible study/catechesis, or are they more of a mens fellowship/coffee group? If they are the latter, then your efforts will fall on deaf ears. They are not meeting for the purpose of learning and they won’t be open or receptive to teaching.

There is a huge need for catechesis of adults, as we all know. Why not use your knowledge and zeal to start an adult catechesis group, open to all parishoners? Meet once a week for six weeks, and teach on a particular topic. If it goes well, this could be an on-going series of 6-week classes; you could periodically offer a 6-week series and parishoners could sign up for it, as often as your respective time and interest allows.

You would have to discuss this with your pastor first of course. Have a series of “lesson plans” to show him to get his approval.
 
qubica said:
When I would mention a church doctrine as a matter of fact, I was surprised to find that the group, almost as a whole, argued AGAINST the Church’s teaching authority on several matters. And they even defended Protestantism to a degree.
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I would be tempted to do what John Martignoni does in his talk “Introduction to Apologetics” which you can download for free here: biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/introduction_to_apologetics.mp3

He starts ripping out the pages of the catechism others find objectionable, then declares it’s a catechism of their Catholic faith, but not a catechism of his Catholic faith. He reminds everybody that if you allow yourself to go against Church teachings, you must in fairness allow anybody else the right to reject any Church teaching.

I’m not saying I would actually start ripping up the catechism, but I sure would be tempted to. Well, maybe as a last resort. I would, however, make his point that if we are allowed to pick and choose doctrine, we must allow everyone else to do the same. So if, for example, someone wants to ignore that rather restrictive ban on contraception, shouldn’t I be allowed to ignore that rather restrictive ban on adultery? If it’s okay for others to go against Church teaching, why can’t I? 🤷
One gentleman pulled me over the next Sunday, right after Mass and explained that it didn’t matter if you were a Muslim or Buddhist, if you loved God and were good you would have salvation. I didn’t have the heart to tell him that Buddhists don’t believe in God…There was so much to teach and explain, that there was not near enough time to even start before his wife called him away.
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Hmmmm. That’s not what Jesus says. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.” John 14:6.
The crux of the matter…I am torn in continuing to attend this group. I was hoping to find Catholic gentlemen who practiced obedience and faithfulness to our faith. But instead I found Protestant Catholics who are mostly ignorant of church teaching, and I cannot and will not keep my mouth shut when a Catholic speaks contrary to the faith and church that Christ gave us.
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When someone gives me something counter to the faith, I usually ask where he got his idea. What, exactly, is it based upon? If you can show your beliefs are based on scripture–especially the words of Chirst Himself–and their beliefs are based upon nothing but personal opinion, you may get far in convincing them.
Should I attend and look for opportunities to evangelize my fellow Catholics, or should I use that time deepen my faith personally, or do some corporal act of mercy? It’s disheartening to have to defend Catholicism to Catholics.
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I think you absolutely should look for opportunities and use them, but, as St. Peter says, “do it with gentleness and reverence.” 1 Peter 3:15-16. This is not just about the souls of those particular men but also those of their families and anyone else they may express their non-Catholic ideas to.

I highly suggest another talk Martignoni has entitled “Apologetics for the Scripturally Challenged” which discusses techniques for doing this. You can find it at the same website.
I continue to pray about this, but I want to know if this is fairly common in the Church and how different people have handled this situation.
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Since I mostly deal with non-Catholics, I’ll let others more experienced in this help you out here.
 
ask the group to come to an agreement, that when stating personal opinion, that it be stated as such, and that when stating Church teaching, only authentic church teaching be stated. Just as rules of the road. For the same reason I can give my opinion about how my truck performs, but when it comes to recommending tire pressure or repair procedure, I should defer to the manufacturer.
 
Well, I definitely would not leave the group. You have been led to this group for a reason! 😉

What I would, do, though, is pray and offer sacrifice for those in the group whose faith is weak, and identify those in the group who are faithful to the Church and the Church’s teaching and enlist them to help you pray for those whose faith is weak. THEN, only after some time praying for the problem folks, would I present what the Church teaches. I think it was John Paul II that said that we should not bother with trying to correct every error in belief out there, because there are so many, we would never finish. Instead, we should teach Christ’s truths, as taught by the Church, because when we do, grace accompanies the teaching. And when God’s grace is needed for that person’s conversion, it will be there.

Always go to God about man, before going to man about God. 🙂

God bless!
 
qubica said:
The crux of the matter…I am torn in continuing to attend this group. I was hoping to find Catholic gentlemen who practiced obedience and faithfulness to our faith. But instead I found Protestant Catholics who are mostly ignorant of church teaching, and I cannot and will not keep my mouth shut when a Catholic speaks contrary to the faith and church that Christ gave us.

Should I attend and look for opportunities to evangelize my fellow Catholics, or should I use that time deepen my faith personally, or do some corporal act of mercy? It’s disheartening to have to defend Catholicism to Catholics.

I continue to pray about this, but I want to know if this is fairly common in the Church and how different people have handled this situation.
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May I suggest that you not look at this as an “either / or” situation, but that you do both (re: evangelizing others “versus” deepening your own faith)? You do need to look for opportunities to deepen your own faith – we all do. But these men need you to help deepen theirs, whether they acknowledge it or not! If it’s a weekly group, perhaps you can attend 3 out of 4 sessions, using the ones you miss for yourself (reading, studying, praying, finding support you need from others).

To say that this is “fairly common in the Church” is a huge understatement. Relativism is rampant and increasingly dangerous to the practice of our faith – relativism being a belief that whatever is truth to you is okay to believe – there’s no absolute truth (and we know Jesus has taught is that there IS one absolute truth, re: what we’re to believe).

One approach you might consider is to review the Scripture readings ahead of time to see what the themes or potential issues of disagreement re: the Church’s teachings might be, and to make copies of what the Catechism or other authentic sources can clarify about the teachings. “Oh, yes, I thought that issue might come up tonight – I thought you might like to read what the Church’s teaching is on that…”

Above all, keep praying for these men. Here are a few links re: relativism:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5180&CFID=19466751&CFTOKEN=58086370 (“Relativism: The Central Problem for Faith Today” by Cardinal Ratzinger)

ad2000.com.au/articles/2000/feb2000p8_18.html (“Defending the faith against secularism and relativism”)

beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Catholic/2005/04 (“What is relativism and why does it matter to Catholics and non-Catholics?”)

/What-Is-Relativism.aspx

catholicexchange.com/2008/08/13/113468/ (“What is Truth?”)

insidethevatican.com/articles/conscience.htm
 
I think that before discussing specifics, the first question to ask is “Do you believe that Catholics should follow the teachings of the Church?”.

If not, then “Why not?”. If so, then “Just some of them, or all?”

If someone doesn’t believe in the authority of the Church, then all the specifics are rather moot, no?

As to whether to stay or not, pray on it. The answer you will get means more than our advice here. 👍
 
There are so many things that people just don’t know or don’t understand about what the Church teaches. I doubt the men you’ve encountered are deliberately ignoring what the Church teaches as much as they just don’t know it very well.

If the group is having a discussion and someone says something wrong you can offer a gentle correction. Gentle! And that way they learn things that they’ve possibly never heard about before.
 
The Governor of California and his wife,Joe Biden,Nancy Pelosi,Dalton McGinty,Stephane Dion,Chretian etc.etc.etc…ad nauseum.
 
Do you mean Cafeteria Catholics? 🤷:confused: If so, I know a few on another website. Well, I don’t know them but I know of them.
 
qubica said:
I’ve been a fan of Catholic Answers since I was the organist at St. John the Evangelist in San Diego, it was the church that Karl Keating attended and it was exposure to “This Rock” and other documents at the church that helped my reversion to Catholicism, the Holy Spirit was responsible for the rest! I’d returned to the one true Church back in 2003 and I’ve never regretted it.
One challenge though…
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Hi
The problem is, is that your own Catecism says that others are included in Gods plan of Salvation. I think it’s number 841 in your Catecism.
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I’d like to know too. Catholics follow Catholic doctrine. Protestants don’t have to.

There are, of course, “Catholics” who are self-proclaimed who merely follow some of Catholicism, and Catholics who follow most of Catholocism, and Catholics who follow all of Catholocism.

The OP had in mind, methinks, “Catholics” who not only don’t believe the bigtime Catholic stuff, but tell other Catholics they don’t have to either.
 
Holly3278;4481242]And your point is? 🤷:confused:
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One gentleman pulled me over the next Sunday, right after Mass and explained that it didn’t matter if you were a Muslim or Buddhist,if you loved God and were good you would have salvation. I didn’t have the heart to tell him that Buddhists don’t believe in God…There was so much to teach and explain, that there was not near enough time to even start before his wife called him away.
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My point is, how can you expect the members of your church to not feel that way (the bold part above) when your own document of faith says that not only Christians will go to Heaven?
 
Good replies eveyone - thank you for taking the time. ShellKell, while the Church does believe in God’s mercy for salvation - for all humanity - Catholic or not, the point I was making is that we have an obligation to spread the Gospel of Christ.

As Catholics, we have been given the fullness of truth. In fact, each religion believes that, or else why would anyone adhere to it? But after using prayer, faith and even reasoning, I DO believe that Christ instituted the Catholic Church and gave the apostles and thereafter the authority to proclaim His gospel. I do believe it has the fullness of truth.

Now, when it comes to other faiths, do I feel like belittling them or demeaning them? No. I want, and it am required by Christ, to make them aware of the fullness of TRUTH of Jesus Christ and the church he founded. It’s not an option to say “I won’t reveal to other people the truth, because who am I to assume I have the whole truth?”

But I take Christ at His word when he said “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life…” Christ is the truth, and that truth is also in the church He instituted here to guide His disciples on earth.

So, when a fellow Catholic just shrugs his shoulders and refuses to assist his fellow human being in discovering the truth, that runs counter to our mission given to us by Jesus Christ. We have to love our fellow man enough to care.
 
qubica said:
As Catholics, we have been given the fullness of truth. In fact, each religion believes that, or else why would anyone adhere to it? But after using prayer, faith and even reasoning, I DO believe that Christ instituted the Catholic Church and gave the apostles and thereafter the authority to proclaim His gospel. I do believe it has the fullness of truth.
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On that note, it may be good to point out that very few dispute the founding of the Catholic Church by Christ, but rather that it was founded on the wrong principles and/or was later corrupted to the point that reform was necessary. As a Lutheran, I would state both to be true, but perhaps such a belief might vary among denominations and I’d rather not speak for anyone I don’t represent. The apostles were most certainly given the authority and the instruction to preach the Gospel of Christ (see the Great Commission). However, to say that the Church has had the fullness of truth revealed to it is to contradict itself. Any good Catholic will understand that as fallen human beings, we cannot possibly know the full nature of the truth. It is reserved for such a time as God sees fit to resurrect the body and make us perfect, as He is perfect, once again, restoring us and cleansing us of Original Sin in the most perfect way.
 
American Catholics are Protestants who go to Mass on Sundays.

Their faith does not form their secular views; rather, their secular views forms their faith. This is why they are willfully obstinate about many of their so-called “Catholic” opinions. They are anti-dogma, because all opinions are equal. They are anti-hierarchy, because the Church should be democratic. They are for women priests, because of the principle of equality. They are indifferent in matters of religion, because all religions are equal. They think religion should be a private matter, because of the separation of church and state. The list could go on.

Unfortunately, this is not just a matter of educating people of good will. Nothing is more threatening to these people, than someone who says (no matter how nicely or nuanced), “Let me show you the truth.” They will kick you out of the group and the parish before they will allow themselves to be challenged in this way.
 
rfpapcun said:
American Catholics are Protestants who go to Mass on Sundays.

Their faith does not form their secular views; rather, their secular views forms their faith. This is why they are willfully obstinate about many of their so-called “Catholic” opinions. They are anti-dogma, because all opinions are equal. They are anti-hierarchy, because the Church should be democratic. They are for women priests, because of the principle of equality. They are indifferent in matters of religion, because all religions are equal. They think religion should be a private matter, because of the separation of church and state. The list could go on.

Unfortunately, this is not just a matter of educating people of good will. Nothing is more threatening to these people, than someone who says (no matter how nicely or nuanced), “Let me show you the truth.” They will kick you out of the group and the parish before they will allow themselves to be challenged in this way.
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Don’t paint with a broad brush or anything.
 
qubica said:
…I discovered that quite a few of the men are nominal Catholics.

When I would mention a church doctrine as a matter of fact, I was surprised to find that the group, almost as a whole, argued AGAINST the Church’s teaching authority on several matters. And they even defended Protestantism to a degree…
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The infamous Cafeteria Catholic
 
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