Know anything about Fr. Stan Fortuna?

[Eileen_T]

My preference in Church music is Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polypholy. I LOVE the old Catholic hymns which no-one ever hears sung in church anymore.

This does not mean that I don’t like other forms of music such as Rap and Hip-hop. I am a Classical buff as well. The only music I really, really can’t stand to listen to is Country.

JDeL:

While I do not deny that Fr. Stan is orthodox in his teaching and lyricizing, his quasi-musical delivery has more power to divide and corrupt than his message has to evangelize.

The church and all its members must not be like everyone else, its immutablilty must stand apart and reign true now and forever.

What was it St Paul said about being all things to all men?

While I would accept that most priests should stay away from Rap, God gives us all different gifts and expects us to use them wisely. Rap is a music form that reaches right into the heart and soul of some people who would turn their back on more traditional forms of music.

I rejected Rap without ever really listened to it before hearing Fr Stan, that was a mistake because it is what my kids are listening to. He is reaching kids who listen to Rap because it tells the story of their lives.

 

[Elzee]

I talked to a friend of mine yesterday who saw him last year. Fr. Stan was talking to adults instead of youth at the event he was at. No rap - just a couple beautiful songs with a lot of dynamic, orthodox, ‘you better get your life in order and put Jesus first’ preaching from the bible, papal encyclicals, and especially JPII writings. He was also raving about how blessed we are to have B16. I’m sure like any good priest and speaker he adjusts his style to his audience, but doesn’t compromise the message. He also commented that the Mass Fr. Stan celebrated before-hand was very reverent and orthodox. He sounds like a true blessing!

 

[IPTgrad]

Father Stan is a Franciscan Friar of the Renewal in one of the harshest New York neighborhoods. He deals with very tough young people and he has a gift for music so he reaches out to them through what they know, tough music. He speaks a tough language to them… the language of the truth of the Gospel.

Father Stan is also a priest who is VERY faithful to the Magisterium. Father Stan appreciates holy liturgy. I have been in attendance at Mass with him on several occasions and rap music has never been a part of Mass. He is liturgically correct in all aspects and does not confuse the purposes of his hip-hop music as being liturgical.

Through Youth 2000 I have met several men in Father Stan’s order. They have given up practically everything to serve God. For example, they dress in traditional Franscican robes. They are permitted, however, to use whatever their talents are to draw others to Christ. An example of this is one young friar who skateboards, well. He draws certain people who can then hear his message. Father Stan is a musician. He draws many to the message. And he refuses to water down the message. He is a great blessing to our Church. Lives change in his presence, when young people see Christ’s reflection in him.

 

[JSmitty2005]

IPTgrad:

Father Stan is also a priest who is VERY faithful to the Magisterium. Father Stan appreciates holy liturgy. I have been in attendance at Mass with him on several occasions and rap music has never been a part of Mass. He is liturgically correct in all aspects and does not confuse the purposes of his hip-hop music as being liturgical.

I agree. I’ve only ever been to one of his Masses, but he did not let the atmosphere of his little rap performance beforehand influence the Liturgy. Even though I hate rap, I must admit that he was extremely reverent. I think that he is depicted in this picture:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Anonymous_1]

USMC:

God doesn’t need priest to degrade themselves and the priesthood by acting like 19 year old gang-bangers. What he needs is priests to act like priests.

Body and soul work together. Just as the outward movements of the body reflect the virtue - or lack thereof - within the soul; so too the outward movements of the body have a great affect on the virtues within the soul. Moderate bodily movements actually help to sanctify the soul, whereas perverted movements - such as those of rappers - corrupt the soul.

Acting like a crack-smoking MTV gand member is not going to sanctify the soul, and will only make a mockery of the priesthood.

The priesthood is suffering enough from the pediphiles: it doesn’t need “rapping priests” to degrade it even more.

The following is a link to a “blessing” by Fr. Stan.

francescoproductions.com/pages/blessings.html

“There is a way that seemeth right to man, but the end thereof is death”.

I wasn’t going to write this, but if people continually glorify this perverted behavior of a Priest! for heaven sakes, how will he ever realize his error? He should be corrected for such unbecoming behavior, not praised for it.

Certianly there must be MANY OTHERS on this message board who realize this.

“How do you like your Hip-hop music/ some like it holy/ some like it polluted/ some like a crew like The Movement in tune with the blueprint of Heaven consumed with Life/ Hip-hop on a higher level/ Hip-hop is not evil/ Hip-hop was not created by the Devil/
…
demand more/ let them know you won’t stand for it/ we gonna have to change if there’s no fans for it/ this could be holy ground/ Hip-hop is holy now/ long as I got the microphone I’ma hold it down/”
~The Cross Movement…

while it is true that Hip Hop has traditionally been used by secular artists to convey a message of hate or violence, drugs, sexual immorality and decadence, etc. It is ashame that so many people have become jaded, the music is not evil, it is just an avenue, a vessel to carry a message.
Why can’t we as Catholics baptize such a powerful medium as Hip Hop in the name of the Lord Jesus as a avenue to carry the truth and life saving message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

You wonder why we are losing the youth? Ill tell you, Its because the Church isn’t changing the way it is trying to reach out to them. We can’t relate to Gregorian Chant, as beautiful as it may be…let ese Catholic artists glorify God with the gifts He has given em…God bless them…

USMC seems like you got bigger issues than dislike of Catholic Rap…sounds like you got a misunderstanding…
Father Stan is a blessing, and a Holy man…He is embracing the media and the medium of music in response to JP2S call for a New Evangelization…don’t hate

 

[Lazerlike42]

“How do you like your Hip-hop music/ some like it holy/ some like it polluted/ some like a crew like The Movement in tune with the blueprint of Heaven consumed with Life/ Hip-hop on a higher level/ Hip-hop is not evil/ Hip-hop was not created by the Devil/
…
demand more/ let them know you won’t stand for it/ we gonna have to change if there’s no fans for it/ this could be holy ground/ Hip-hop is holy now/ long as I got the microphone I’ma hold it down/”
~The Cross Movement…

while it is true that Hip Hop has traditionally been used by secular artists to convey a message of hate or violence, drugs, sexual immorality and decadence, etc. It is ashame that so many people have become jaded, the music is not evil, it is just an avenue, a vessel to carry a message.
Why can’t we as Catholics baptize such a powerful medium as Hip Hop in the name of the Lord Jesus as a avenue to carry the truth and life saving message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

You wonder why we are losing the youth? Ill tell you, Its because the Church isn’t changing the way it is trying to reach out to them. We can’t relate to Gregorian Chant, as beautiful as it may be…let ese Catholic artists glorify God with the gifts He has given em…God bless them…

USMC seems like you got bigger issues than dislike of Catholic Rap…sounds like you got a misunderstanding…
Father Stan is a blessing, and a Holy man…He is embracing the media and the medium of music in response to JP2S call for a New Evangelization…don’t hate

The music that we now consider “sacred” and traditional was once just as new and unaccepted as this rap is today. (I HATE rap, by the way)

 

[Anonymous_1]

JDeL:

USMC,

I have spoke up on these issues in these forums(and was hacked to pieces) before with regards to liturgical music and innovations therein. I look at Catholic Rap as a joke and a selling out.

Music should be judged by its melody, harmony, and rhythm first. It is impossible to put a syncopated, pulsating, sensual hip-hop beat to lyrics about Marian devotion and expect to do something other than confuse and corrupt. Naturally, it is a dichotomy, a lie.

Thinking that adults and priests have to sell out to popular culture is disturbing, but thinking that young people do not want Gregorian Chant and other beautiful genres of music is downright naive. I have witnessed a parish that is transforming its young in orthodox music and the young people(of many races) are present in mass at Mass.

While I do not deny that Fr. Stan is orthodox in his teaching and lyricizing, his quasi-musical delivery has more power to divide and corrupt than his message has to evangelize.

The church and all its members must not be like everyone else, its immutablilty must stand apart and reign true now and forever.

To anyone who is interested, I suggest Fr. Basil Nortz tapes on Music and Morality to delve further into how popular music disposes man to vice.

Humbly,
JD

I disagree…Try to reach out to my generation with Gregorian chant…I dont think the majority of youth would love it, they may be tolerant of it, which is mroe than I can say about some people…

To go so far as to say that Hip Hop itself is intrensically evil is folly and close minded…

If we can take previously debaucherous pagan holidays like Easter and Christmas and Baptize them in the name of the Lord Jesus, why can’t we Baptize Hip Hop?
The Glory is His, He created music and gave us all of these wonderful gifts and abilities to sing and write and partake in His creative wisdom so we could tell of His wonder and majesty and Glory and greatness!!!
I believe Catholic Hip Hop is Holy and should be embraced for what it is a powerful medium to carry the Gospel to today’s youth. I stand firm and believe this to bet he truth, im sorry if you disagree…

 

[vluvski]

JDel and USMC,

I wholeheartedly disagree that any particular musical genre is somehow more or less holy than another. Furthermore, JDel’s claim that this will only divide the church is self-fulfilling. There is no need to discount the inspired work of any priest or lay person who is bringing about conversion.

Remember when Jesus rebukes his apostles for asking him to go after the guy who was driving out demons in His name?

I can appreciate any type of music as long as it is appropriate to the setting. Some people need to realize that Gregorian Chant is not the be-all-end-all in liturgical music, and that NOT ALL YOUTH are going to either like or dislike any one genre. Thinking that some youth will not be turned off to the Mass by Gregorian Chant is downright naive, too.

If just one more soul is saved because of Catholic hip-hop, Amen to that!

 

[Mordocai]

USMC:

God doesn’t need priest to degrade themselves and the priesthood by acting like 19 year old gang-bangers. What he needs is priests to act like priests.

Body and soul work together. Just as the outward movements of the body reflect the virtue - or lack thereof - within the soul; so too the outward movements of the body have a great affect on the virtues within the soul. Moderate bodily movements actually help to sanctify the soul, whereas perverted movements - such as those of rappers - corrupt the soul.

Acting like a crack-smoking MTV gand member is not going to sanctify the soul, and will only make a mockery of the priesthood.

The priesthood is suffering enough from the pediphiles: it doesn’t need “rapping priests” to degrade it even more.

The following is a link to a “blessing” by Fr. Stan.

francescoproductions.com/pages/blessings.html

“There is a way that seemeth right to man, but the end thereof is death”.

I wasn’t going to write this, but if people continually glorify this perverted behavior of a Priest! for heaven sakes, how will he ever realize his error? He should be corrected for such unbecoming behavior, not praised for it.

Certianly there must be MANY OTHERS on this message board who realize this.

While I certainly understand your point of view, I disagree with it.
Why?
The method of evangelization should not be limited.
John Paul II’s new evangelization, at its core, called for exactly things of this nature.
We are called to PERMEATE the culture and the world with Christ by using our talents and gifts.
You see Him as a gang-banger, I simply see Him as standing up and saying, “if you’re gonna rap about anything, rap about the Truth, Who is Jesus.”
The method of “lure, then teach” is effective. Why? Because they win both ways. Fact is KIDS WILL NOT LISTEN unless you give them a reason, and frankly, “it’s the truth” is not a good reason to most kids.
So Fr. Stan and like minded individuals go out and meet them where they are.
God does what He has to get our attention, and so will this wonderful, holy priest.

Truly, it is the universal Church. The liturgy is one thing, the more sublime the better.
But since rap exists, turn it to something good.
I seem to remember a certain city being turned from the capital of evil to the HQ of Christianity…
And a certain pagan holiday being changed to Christmas.

While your post does show your age and I strongly respect your view, I believe that, the older generations’ methods of evangelization just aren’t going to save us teenagers. We NEED and CRAVE something different. And while the presentation certainly is, ultimately, its Jesus beckoning us “Come”

Christ met people where they were at and was no doubt very creative in doing so.

Perhaps you believe it is a bad idea to televise the Mass on the same grounds as your disagreement with Fr. Stan’s music? Does not televising the Mass take away from the sublimity of it all and objectify the Mass as a spectator’s thing?

I’ll be interested to hear your response.

Mordocai

P.S. Makes you wonder how many people He’s been able to bring into the Church.
P.S.S. Since you’re wondering, I’m 18.

 

[Anonymous_1]

Mordocai:

While I certainly understand your point of view, I disagree with it.
Why?
The method of evangelization should not be limited.
John Paul II’s new evangelization, at its core, called for exactly things of this nature.
We are called to PERMEATE the culture and the world with Christ by using our talents and gifts.
You see Him as a gang-banger, I simply see Him as standing up and saying, “if you’re gonna rap about anything, rap about the Truth, Who is Jesus.”
The method of “lure, then teach” is effective. Why? Because they win both ways. Fact is KIDS WILL NOT LISTEN unless you give them a reason, and frankly, “it’s the truth” is not a good reason to most kids.
So Fr. Stan and like minded individuals go out and meet them where they are.
God does what He has to get our attention, and so will this wonderful, holy priest.

Truly, it is the universal Church. The liturgy is one thing, the more sublime the better.
But since rap exists, turn it to something good.
I seem to remember a certain city being turned from the capital of evil to the HQ of Christianity…
And a certain pagan holiday being changed to Christmas.

While your post does show your age and I strongly respect your view, I believe that, the older generations’ methods of evangelization just aren’t going to save us teenagers. We NEED and CRAVE something different. And while the presentation certainly is, ultimately, its Jesus beckoning us “Come”

Christ met people where they were at and was no doubt very creative in doing so.

Perhaps you believe it is a bad idea to televise the Mass on the same grounds as your disagreement with Fr. Stan’s music? Does not televising the Mass take away from the sublimity of it all and objectify the Mass as a spectator’s thing?

I’ll be interested to hear your response.

Mordocai

P.S. Makes you wonder how many people He’s been able to bring into the Church.
P.S.S. Since you’re wondering, I’m 18.

whats up brother
im 20, thanks for your response…
where are you from?

 

[JSmitty2005]

Mordocai:

I seem to remember a certain city being turned from the capital of evil to the HQ of Christianity…
And a certain pagan holiday being changed to Christmas.

Not that this is a big deal, but that idea is perpetuated by atheists that like to discredit Christianity. The pagans had so many holidays that we could argue that one was replaced by Martin Luther King day. The truth is that Christ was born 6 months after John the Baptist. This is recorded in Luke’s Gospel. The Church has celebrated John the Baptist’s birthday from the earliest of times on June 24th. Augustine attested to this in one of his homilies. Also, Mordocai and Anonymous_1, I’m with USMC and I totally disagree with you guys…and I’m 19.

 

[Mordocai]

From Illinois anonymous, how about you?
And smitty, the point I was making is simply that if evil exists, don’t ignore it and hope it’ll go away. Grab hold of it, and sanctify it. If rap is evil (or at least the majority of it in secular america today) then why just ignore it and say “well let’s try to convert these kids”
First, how you gonna convert the kids so entrenched in their music?
Second, why not convert the music which will hopefully convert (or at least get them to think about Jesus) thousands.

Cerain approaches just seem to want to ignore all the bad things in this world. If not ignore, then only oppose it and say “this is evil and you shouldn’t do it.”
Rather JPII was teaching we should use our gifts to transform the world, not just ignore that which is deformed.
Jesus transformed the lepers, not ignore them.
Should we also not transform rap and hip-hop instead of just hope it goes away?

Look forward to your response.

 

[USMC]

Mordocai:

Christ met people where they were at and was no doubt very creative in doing so…

I’ll be interested to hear your response.

“There is a way that seemeth right to man, but the end thereof is death”.

Rap music, and the movements, expressions, and slang language that go along with it, are animated by “the spirit of the world”; and, as the Bible tells us, “the spirit of the world is the enemy of God”.

“Christian rap” does not elevate rap music; rather, it degrades and degraces Christianity. It attempts to mix light with darkness - the truth of God with “the spirit of the world”.

Our Lord certainly used different ways of dealing with different people (depending on the circumstances and dispositions of the individuals). He spoke the truth always; he used gentleness sometimes, and harsh words when necessary, but never did he act like the world in the hopes of winning the worldly.

John Paul II’s new evangelization, at its core, called for exactly things of this nature.
We are called to PERMEATE the culture and the world with Christ by using our talents and gifts.

We are all to do our small part to transform our corrupt culture into a Christian culture, not to transform Christianity into an image of our corrupt culture.

The goal is to have Christianity permeate society, not to have our corrupt society permeate Christianity.

 

[Anonymous_1]

so then Hip Hop is intrensically Evil?

the thing in itself is never good or justified? I disagree and think this position is narrow minded. Can I share some of my lyrics with you that you might see what it is we are talking of?

The Commision-Anonymous

My mission is to bring the truth, the good news
the commision of the Gospel of Christ to fruition,
let yourself envision this gruesome description,
I want you to Imagine a innocent man imprionsed,
submitted to the opposition
convicted like a villian, They hit him, stripped and whipped him,
beyond recognition nails driven like ambition, through his wrists
submitted to the crucifixion,
then he cried now it is finished,closed His eyes for all to witness,
then he died, sinless,murdered, by a false verdict,
the Son of Man hung, His life a Ransom,the just for the unjust,
As His earnest, His passion burning like a furnace
the purpose, to purchase and carried the burdens of sin…
Jesus died, then lied in the tomb, like a womb,
three days loomed,then…He was born again,raised from the dead
flawless
Light of the World, pierced by evil men, that in the end,
when He comes again it will be the light that pierces darkness…
in a garden, a seed is planted before you reap a harvest
Harken to the call, Harden not your Hearts,
this is a message to the lost,
the good news the Gospel of the Cross, the Gospel of the Cross

Amen…

Hip Hop is not different than any other music form. Unfortunetly, traditionally Hip Hop has been used to propogate decadence. In these cases, it is the lyrics and intent of the performer that are evil, change the message to something that is not evil and the music is no longer sinful. But this is true of any music genre, If i took gregorian chant so that the vocals were profane, the music would become sinful. I suggest you speak with a firm understanding of moral theology and open your mind a bit…

 

[Mordocai]

Yes I agree with Anonymous, rap itself is not intrinsically evil. USMC, you make the assumption based on your presuppositions and opinions that rap is motivated by the spirit of the world. But what rationale do you have for this?
What else is intrinsically evil that we should know about?

 

[yinekka]

I have only heard and read good things about Fr Fortuna but I once listened to a Mass homily of his and by the end of it he had the congregation of young people so razzed up that I wondered how it would be possible for the Liturgy of the Eucharist not to seem very tame by comparison. His particular style of delivery would have been fantastic in another setting but was a little over the top for a Liturgy of the Word homily.

 

[JDeL]

Fact is KIDS WILL NOT LISTEN unless you give them a reason, and frankly, “it’s the truth” is not a good reason to most kids.

This is your opinion, not fact. I have evidence of the opposite. Kids will listen to the truth if true, sometimes tough, love is manifested in the teaching. As a teacher, I once tried to sell out to the kids, even using decent hip-hop in the classroom, feeling that this was the only way to connect to them.

Then two Lents ago, I reverted to a fuller understanding of the faith and started to reeducate myself in the Catholic faith, giving up things of the world, popular music being the primary one. I realized that I had wasted 15 years, being addicted to rock/rap music. I still have times when my memorized tunes come back to me(I can rap, too!!). That is what happens when we leave addictions behind - reversions and flashbacks.

Kids today are mindlessly addicted to music, spending countless hours jamming to their favorite sounds. I see the evidence of this in the classroom every day. My question to them has been this: How many hours do you spend praying vs. listening to popular music? This is the tough-loving question that they truly need to be asked. Who is their God? What are they giving their time to?

Further, I(my physical preference) like hip-hop music. It sounds good to me personally, but so do many other scandalous things in todays that really would make me feel good. But, like many other obsessive habits I once had, I will do my best to say NO to any type of popular music because:

1. It is addictive(for myself and many young people)
2. Its beat does not coincide with natural bodily rhythms, it is synchopated.
3. The music is repetitive and has no climax … it just pulsates endlessly. It is for solely for the body, not the mind nor the soul.
4. It takes little technical skill in comparison to other forms of music.
5. The pulsating beat causes the body to produce adrenaline and other sexual hormones, thus creating an occasion of sin … All one needs to do is go to any concert/dance where people are dancing seductively to see the evidence of the music’s beat. Been there, done that, not doing it again!
6. The glaringly obvious sub-culture that has developed out of today’s rock and rap culture.
7. It’s roots … Voodoo, the American sexual revolution, and many of the masterminds of the culture of death who perverted good music. Unfortunately, they know how to corrupt people, through their desire for musical pleasure.

In these cases, it is the lyrics and intent of the performer that are evil, change the message to something that is not evil and the music is no longer sinful. But this is true of any music genre, If i took gregorian chant so that the vocals were profane, the music would become sinful.

What you say here could not be further from the truth! Most arguments against popular music especially hip-hop and hard rock center around the lyrics. A predominant amount of today’s popular music lyrics are lewd, degrading, prideful etc etc… I agree with you here. But … most of today’s hip-hop, rock, pop and all other degrading genres have subject/obect agreement, meaning that their subject(promiscuous, lewd, prideful and violent lyrical themes) correlate with their pulsating, sensuous, driving, seductive beats.

Lyrics are irrelevant, on the contrary, because Fr. Stan’s truth in what he says in his songs is profoundly beautiful. However, when mixed with a scandalous, synchopated beat, the most true and wondrous poetry is undeniably corrupted. The lyrics speak of Mary’s yes to God, but the beat speaks of rebellion and sexual licentiousness. I am sorry, but this is a dichotomy, a lie. No matter the lyrics, if a song’s beat disposes man to vice, it disposes man to vice, period. You cannot put a bouquet on pile of dung and expect it to smell good.

I support Fr. Stan’s evangelization and applaud him and thank the Holy Spirit for his conversion stories, but I question how he will respond when his converts ask him to bend further to accomodate their personal preferences in liturgy, faith, and morals when he and others have already made a compromise to attract their attention. We must draw the line somewhere. The spiritual and corporal works of mercy should be the benchmark for what we do in evangelizing. None of those says to participate in, intermingle with and thus validate the rituals of those being educated.

Humbly and with charity,
JD

 

[Mordocai]

JD!
i appreciate your charitable and well thought out reply and i must say, you make some good points. while i myself actually really dont like rap/hip-hop at all, i find the only thing i like about it is the beat, which can topple into mindless drivel.
however, i dont think all hiphop/rap has to be terrible, i think artists can do better and evolve the genre.
its funny cuz i really hate listening to ‘Christian rap’ but fr. stan fortuna…i dunno, i like him and know he’s trying ot reach out with his talent, and i agree with you, God bless Him for that.
but i do hold to the position that kids (at least a sizeable portion) will whole heartedly reject the message, but i think here i would change my statement to: IF it’s not the right message. my theory has always been give 'em the truth, let God deal with it.
so perhaps i was hasty in my comment, i appreciate your humbling remarks.

God Bless,
Mordocai

 

[desire_the_end]

You know what? You could take every other contemporary Christian artist and throw them in with this guy because the sound is of the “spirit of the world.” We live in THIS age, and era pretty much defines our culture. Culture changes and so will we. God forbid we come to terms with cultural and artistic growth!!

Fr. Stan, though I have not ever heard of him before this very hour, seems dedicated to the Gospel and our Lord. He is NOT on MTV (not that that would even be a horrible thing). He does not endorse empty words nor does he LIMIT HIS REACH when it comes to spreading the gospel. He is rather gifted and speaks to people WHERE THEY ARE, not unlike Jesus, at all.

Why the heck is this such a problem? I’m not going to address all of your points…Quite frankly its past one in the morning and fighting over what a given form of artistic expression entails is the last thing on my “to do” list.

In a few years, my Christian Metal band should be on the road, God willing. You’re all invited to come see us!

You too, mister with the username in all capital letters!
lovetony

 

[Tonks40]

Ya know, different strokes for different folks, so-to-speak!

His words are pure…his love for Christ and His Sacrifice is evident. And he does do a lot more than just rap…devotional, spiritual songs - his repretoire is pretty even.