Know Jesus, Know Peace? NO! Not entirely.

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Know Jesus, Know Peace? NO! Not entirely.

No non-presumptuous Protestant can have total peace, without the five sacraments he has lost by not being under Apostolic succession:
  1. Confession: HOw can he really know, just from Scripture, whether mercy is possible after a fall from grace, and if so, how to get it back?
  2. Anointing of the Sick: How can he really know, for sure, with just Scripture, if there are not really unforgivable sins? Like mark of beast, blasphemy against Spirit? Imagine living with the idea you committed one, so that the remainder of your life is torture, knowing you will be damned no matter what?
  3. Confirmation: HOw can he really know if God wants him saved, just from Scripture? The Calvinist sects say God does not want all men saved, only those He has chosen? There is no special grace for all adults to endure the life of grace, as in confirmation.
  4. Holy Orders: HOw can he really know which of the hundreds of fiery preachers that conflict really speaks for God, are men of God? What must I do to be saved? You have a hundred men shouting hellfire at you, and no two fully agree on how to avoid it!
  5. Eucharist: How can he really be sure he belongs to the true church, there are so many? BUt what if the last community he left really was true, and when they told him, “you are heathen” they were right, and you will perish?
Apocalypse 9:

And the fifth angel sounded the trumpet, and I saw a star fall from heaven upon the earth, and there was given to him the key of the bottomless pit. [2] And he opened the bottomless pit: and the smoke of the pit arose, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke of the pit. [3] And from the smoke of the pit there came out locusts upon the earth. And power was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have power: [4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree: but only the men who have not the sign of God on their foreheads. [5] And it was given unto them that they should not kill them; but that they should torment them five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when he striketh a man.

[6] And in those days men shall seek death, and shall not find it: and they shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them. [7] And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle: and on their heads were, as it were, crowns like gold: and their faces were as the faces of men. [8] And they had hair as the hair of women; and their teeth were as lions: [9] And they had breastplates as breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was as the noise of chariots and many horses running to battle. [10] And they had tails like to scorpions, and there were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men five months.

What father, if the child ask him for an egg, would give him a scorpion?

Amen, I say to you, you have been given the power to tread upon scorpions and serpents, and they shall not harm you.

The Church treads on all heresies that torture the innocent ones who non-culpably don’t trust the Apostles’ Successors, and the serpents lies that steal one from salvation. Whoever listens to the Bishops will not be harmed by false teaching. Theirs is the Seal of God, that protects them from fiery hereticx
 
Blessed are the Peace makers.
Peace, pray for peace, work for peace, but peace is not going to be as an automatic.

the only reason to fight a war is to bring peace, but in the modern secular world no war today is a justified war, so wars are not faught to bring peace.

Jesus live as the perfect model of peace, but people rejected Jesus, they didnt and dont want to live in peace, greed and gluttony they seek.

boycott middle east oil if you want peace. give israel back to the islamic… and maintain a military only to defense of the US only if you want peace.

other wise accept the hate and revenge that is now spread to the world by attacking other nations, but dont look for peace when its not worked for…
 
We will never have true inner peace by our own efforts

We will only know true peace with God by our side

We will only have true peace in the world, when we know true peace in our hearts

So, while we struggle with our own inner peace, and constantly have to ask God to invoke His peace, our conflicts will continue

An awareness of the futility of man made efforts to create peace is actually the first step to creation of world peace
 
spauline said:
Know Jesus, Know Peace? NO! Not entirely.

No non-presumptuous Protestant can have total peace, without the five sacraments he has lost by not being under Apostolic succession:
  1. Confession: HOw can he really know, just from Scripture, whether mercy is possible after a fall from grace, and if so, how to get it back?
  2. Anointing of the Sick: How can he really know, for sure, with just Scripture, if there are not really unforgivable sins? Like mark of beast, blasphemy against Spirit? Imagine living with the idea you committed one, so that the remainder of your life is torture, knowing you will be damned no matter what?
  3. Confirmation: HOw can he really know if God wants him saved, just from Scripture? The Calvinist sects say God does not want all men saved, only those He has chosen? There is no special grace for all adults to endure the life of grace, as in confirmation.
  4. Holy Orders: HOw can he really know which of the hundreds of fiery preachers that conflict really speaks for God, are men of God? What must I do to be saved? You have a hundred men shouting hellfire at you, and no two fully agree on how to avoid it!
  5. Eucharist: How can he really be sure he belongs to the true church, there are so many? BUt what if the last community he left really was true, and when they told him, “you are heathen” they were right, and you will perish?
Apocalypse 9:

And the fifth angel sounded the trumpet, and I saw a star fall from heaven upon the earth, and there was given to him the key of the bottomless pit. [2] And he opened the bottomless pit: and the smoke of the pit arose, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke of the pit. [3] And from the smoke of the pit there came out locusts upon the earth. And power was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have power: [4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree: but only the men who have not the sign of God on their foreheads. [5] And it was given unto them that they should not kill them; but that they should torment them five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when he striketh a man.

[6] And in those days men shall seek death, and shall not find it: and they shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them. [7] And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle: and on their heads were, as it were, crowns like gold: and their faces were as the faces of men. [8] And they had hair as the hair of women; and their teeth were as lions: [9] And they had breastplates as breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was as the noise of chariots and many horses running to battle. [10] And they had tails like to scorpions, and there were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men five months.

What father, if the child ask him for an egg, would give him a scorpion?

Amen, I say to you, you have been given the power to tread upon scorpions and serpents, and they shall not harm you.

The Church treads on all heresies that torture the innocent ones who non-culpably don’t trust the Apostles’ Successors, and the serpents lies that steal one from salvation. Whoever listens to the Bishops will not be harmed by false teaching. Theirs is the Seal of God, that protects them from fiery hereticx
Click to expand...
I am not quite sure where you are coming from in your thoughts. From what I gather, you are really confused about who has the authority to loosen and bind - also, about authority in general, and forgiveness. The questions left me confused to what you are trying to have answered, being the intermigling of topics that don’t seem to relate. imho

I would ask an apologist.

I am new here and won’t now how I would know if you reply.
 
spauline said:
Know Jesus, Know Peace? NO! Not entirely.

No non-presumptuous Protestant can have total peace, without the five sacraments he has lost by not being under Apostolic succession:
  1. Confession: HOw can he really know, just from Scripture, whether mercy is possible after a fall from grace, and if so, how to get it back?
  2. Anointing of the Sick: How can he really know, for sure, with just Scripture, if there are not really unforgivable sins? Like mark of beast, blasphemy against Spirit? Imagine living with the idea you committed one, so that the remainder of your life is torture, knowing you will be damned no matter what?
  3. Confirmation: HOw can he really know if God wants him saved, just from Scripture? The Calvinist sects say God does not want all men saved, only those He has chosen? There is no special grace for all adults to endure the life of grace, as in confirmation.
  4. Holy Orders: HOw can he really know which of the hundreds of fiery preachers that conflict really speaks for God, are men of God? What must I do to be saved? You have a hundred men shouting hellfire at you, and no two fully agree on how to avoid it!
  5. Eucharist: How can he really be sure he belongs to the true church, there are so many? BUt what if the last community he left really was true, and when they told him, “you are heathen” they were right, and you will perish?
(Cat has truncated Scripture because of length)

The Church treads on all heresies that torture the innocent ones who non-culpably don’t trust the Apostles’ Successors, and the serpents lies that steal one from salvation. Whoever listens to the Bishops will not be harmed by false teaching. Theirs is the Seal of God, that protects them from fiery hereticx
Click to expand...
I’m going to treat your query seriously, and if it turns out to be something else, then that’s the way it goes.

Please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 1793. It is the paragraph about invincible ignorance.

I was evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life, and I had no idea of what I was missing. As far as I knew and understood, I had complete peace in Jesus Christ. I didn’t perceive anything missing in my life. I didn’t feel guilt about any sins. I didn’t feel that the pastors were “frauds.” I did feel an intense longing for Communion, but I wasn’t aware that the “symbol” that I was receiving was not a “real” Communion.

At the risk of offending others, I would describe many Protestant Christians as having a spiritual “Down’s Syndrome.” People with Down’s have no understanding (or in some cases, just a little understanding) that there is anything “wrong” with them. They feel perfectly normal and happy and AT PEACE.

It would be awful of someone to try to convince a person with Down’s that they are “not normal” or worse, that they are “retarded.” The person with Down’s wouldn’t understand, and and if the comments were delivered in a mean tone of voice, they would probably be hurt by such comments.

This is exactly the way it is with Protestant Christians. I “felt” perfectly fine and normal and happy and at peace. No Catholic ever tried to tell me to become Catholic, but if they had done so, I would have said, “Why? I’m fine. I’m great! I have Jesus.”

I would not have known what I lacked. I had “invincible ignorance,” which is, when you think about it, exactly what Down’s Syndrome is. I’ve heard Down’s described as “being a child forever.”

The analogy kind of falls apart, because no one attempts to “cure” people with Down’s. Often, these people are aborted before they are ever born. And when someone is born with Down’s, the only “treatment” is to love them and take advantage of the various therapies and medications that help a person with Down’s to live a full and rich life.

But the Down’s will always be there, at least, at this point in history. Perhaps someday, someone will develop a “cure” for Down’s.

I think that, as a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism, I still have “spiritual Down’s.” I don’t really fit in with Catholic culture, and I often fail to understand certain Catholic practices and devotions. E.g., I don’t “get” the Latin Mass–it means absolutely nothing to me, and I have no interest in it whatsoever. E.g., I really don’t understand the arguments against certain styles of music in the Mass–as a Protestant, I never had a problem with any and all kinds of music in church, and I still wouldn’t have a problem with any and all kinds of music in the Mass.

So perhaps I have been given intensive “therapy” now that I have become Catholic, but I will never be “cured” of my “spiritual Down’s.” I will always be a “permanent child” among all of you who were raised Catholic.
 
sorry, the anointing of the sick wasn’t clear: Anointing of sick, in additional to spiritual healing, implies God will seek you out with grace unto the end, there would never be a situation that you are permanently unforgiven before death and just have an “anointing unto damnation”, waiting in the “evening of life for hell” and there is nothing you can do about it.

As for confirmation, God truly desires the salvation of all men, so much so, He leaves the Catholic and Orthodox person with a special grace for adulthood. As opposed to certain forms of Calvinism, which teach God does not necessarily want all men saved, leaving one sometimes the torture they are reprobate. Some Calvinists have told poor souls they are reprobate. Some calvinists who have not assumed they are elect, start struggling with a sin and fear they are reprobate.

WHat i mean is, with all the different interpretations, a scrupulous Protestant could fall prey to these tortures.

When you think the Church is invisible, you are presumptuous.

And for those who are not Orthodox, you may think you have some of these sacraments, but you don’t actually

If you are Protestant, and if you are still not afraid of hell, and if you are “certain” you know what the BIble means, you are presumptuous.

as for the original response to confesision, i have met bible only Christians who think once you sin after initial justification, you are screwed, you are going to hell. They came and preached when I was MSU in grad school.
 
The Shalom of God…wholeness is available to any who ask. Shalom is a way of life…in the midst of tradgedy…pain…suffering there is Shalom. “Peace (shalom) I give you, not as the world gives…but as I give.”

Interesting observation from someone who cannot see into the heart and souls of others…I’m sure the OP’s opinion really doesn’t impact the “shalom” of those who are not of your tradition, but find their “shalom” in Christ and His Presence. God grants “shalom”…glad it’s in His Hands…after all in His Hands is the best place to be.🙂

I guess that makes me a “presumtuous” Friend…I good with that.🙂
 
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