Know Your Bible?

[mrs_abbott]

My friend wrote this in reference to a discuss she had with one of her friends.
This deals with how the Bible is written and the Church’s attempt to “hide” things from us.
These are the key points so read and please post so that I can let her know:

We talked about who wrote the Bible and how do you know it’s true? Because different books in the Bible have the same stories but, just told a little different and how do you even know if how that person told the story is true because it’s really just their opinion. We want to know who wrote the book of Revelation? We want to know who decided to take all these stories and put them into one book and who decided what would go in and what wouldn’t. I read that the church has “censored” things to make it how they wanted. I read a story of how Adam and Eve supposedly had seven children and the only way for them to keep re-creating was to marry their brothers and sisters but, that the church changed the story because we aren’t suppose to believe in in-cest, which is gross but-if you think about it-if Adam and Eve were the first people then how did the world get populated?

 

[JSmitty2005]

mrs_abbott:

We talked about who wrote the Bible and how do you know it’s true? Because different books in the Bible have the same stories but, just told a little different and how do you even know if how that person told the story is true because it’s really just their opinion. We want to know who wrote the book of Revelation? We want to know who decided to take all these stories and put them into one book and who decided what would go in and what wouldn’t.

I would go here and read this in it’s entirety.

 

[NotWorthy]

mrs_abbott:

This deals with how the Bible is written and the Church’s attempt to “hide” things from us. Like What??? ** The burden of proof is on them.**
These are the key points so read and please post so that I can let her know:

We talked about who wrote the Bible and how do you know it’s true? There are various authors, from Moses through Paul. Because different books in the Bible have the same stories but, just told a little different and how do you even know if how that person told the story is true because it’s really just their opinion. **We have faith that God is with us, and the Holy Spirit guided these people to write. ** We want to know who wrote the book of Revelation? Uhhhh, John. We want to know who decided to take all these stories and put them into one book and who decided what would go in and what wouldn’t. **The Holy Spirit guided the Church to determine which books were inspired and which were not. ** I read that the church has “censored” things to make it how they wanted. Again, like what??? I read a story of how Adam and Eve supposedly had seven children and the only way for them to keep re-creating was to marry their brothers and sisters but, that the church changed the story because we aren’t suppose to believe in in-cest, which is gross but-if you think about it-if Adam and Eve were the first people then how did the world get populated?**Incest was necessary at this time. I don’t think the Church tries to hide this belief. **

Notworthy

 

[DianJo]

mrs_abbott:

My friend wrote this in reference to a discuss she had with one of her friends.
This deals with how the Bible is written and the Church’s attempt to “hide” things from us.
These are the key points so read and please post so that I can let her know:

We talked about who wrote the Bible and how do you know it’s true?
We know that the bible is true because they were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and we know the Holy Spirit to be truth.

Because different books in the Bible have the same stories but, just told a little different and how do you even know if how that person told the story is true because it’s really just their opinion.
**No, it’s not opinion. The books of the bible were written by different people, for different people and for different reasons. It depends on what message was trying to be delivered to the people. **

As an example, the gospels - Mark, 65 AD, starts with Jesus’ ministry. He wanted people to understand the Good News Jesus was preaching. It was written for Gentiles and at a time of impending persecution. He exhorted these Gentile Christians to stand faithful in the face of persecution.

**Matthew - after Mark and used some of the same material that Mark used. Written after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is believed to have been written to a large population of Greek speaking Gentiles and Jews that had started out strongly Jewish Christian. Matthew started his gospel with the geneology of Christ as he wanted people to know that the prophecy of the Messiah coming from the House of David had been fulfilled. **

Luke - also wrote the Acts of the Apostles. Written around 80-85 AD. Luke was not a Jew, some say he was a physician and was literate in the Greek versions of the Old Testament and Hellenistic Greek writings. He wrote to non-Palestinian Gentile Christians. His gospel starts with the Infancy narratives because he wanted people to understand who Jesus was from the beginning from an historical perspective among other things.

John - wrote around 90 AD probably in Ephesus. John goes back even further than the infancy narratives. He goes all the way back to the beginning of creation! He wanted people to know that Jesus was divine - the Son of God.

They may have seen the same things but they wrote about what was important to the people and the message. Read the introductory pages to each book of the bible and it will explain the basics of what you should know before you read it.
We want to know who wrote the book of Revelation?
It is believed that John, of John’s gospel, wrote Revelation while imprisoned on Patmos around 85-90 AD near the end of the reign of Dormition who was a fierce persecutor of Christian.

We want to know who decided to take all these stories and put them into one book and who decided what would go in and what wouldn’t.
It was the Catholic Church, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that gathered together all the letters and writings of the now New Testament and decided which were inspired and which were not. They were first declared canonical in 380 AD at the Synod of Rome by Pope Damascus and then again at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage. However, the canon was not officially closed until the Council of Trent in 1215 and those same books, again, were declared canonical.

I read that the church has “censored” things to make it how they wanted. I read a story of how Adam and Eve supposedly had seven children and the only way for them to keep re-creating was to marry their brothers and sisters but, that the church changed the story because we aren’t suppose to believe in in-cest, which is gross but-if you think about it-if Adam and Eve were the first people then how did the world get populated?

The Church has “censored” nothing. The church has made no official declaration on “how” the world was populated. The story of creation in Genesis was written for the people of Israel to describe God’s all powerful creaton of everything and His relationship with His creation. Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read about God’s creation of the universe and man. It’s very enlightening.

 

[JSmitty2005]

The church has made no official declaration on “how” the world was populated.

This is from paragraph 37 of Pius XII’s Humani Generis:

When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Thanks guys! I forwarded all of this to her.

 

[Klm]

I don’t know how theologically correct this will be, but oddly enough the language of the story of Adam and Eve is something I have wrestled with. I grew up being taught the fundalmentalist view of creation. That Adam and Eve were the first people on Earth. But…what if they were only the first which God created and brethed His spirit into? The reason I ask is because when you read the story of creation it raises several questions. Why was a garden necessary if they were the only people on Earth? Why would the separation have been needed? If you read the story of Cain and Able, there are only 4 people mentioned: Adam, Eve, Cain and Able. Yet Cain is concerned that if he becomes a wanderer and goes to the cities he’ll be killed. In no world I know of does 4 people make a city. Or a town. Or a villiage, or even a hamlet. Who was Cain so concerned about killing him? Which leads to the conclusion that maybe there were other people on Earth. But Adam and Eve were the first to be created in the image of God with a living soul. I could be wrong. I don’t know.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Klm:

I don’t know how theologically correct this will be, but oddly enough the language of the story of Adam and Eve is something I have wrestled with. I grew up being taught the fundalmentalist view of creation. That Adam and Eve were the first people on Earth. But…what if they were only the first which God created and brethed His spirit into? The reason I ask is because when you read the story of creation it raises several questions. Why was a garden necessary if they were the only people on Earth? Why would the separation have been needed? If you read the story of Cain and Able, there are only 4 people mentioned: Adam, Eve, Cain and Able. Yet Cain is concerned that if he becomes a wanderer and goes to the cities he’ll be killed. In no world I know of does 4 people make a city. Or a town. Or a villiage, or even a hamlet. Who was Cain so concerned about killing him? Which leads to the conclusion that maybe there were other people on Earth. But Adam and Eve were the first to be created in the image of God with a living soul. I could be wrong. I don’t know.

As shown above, Pius XII clearly stated that Catholics *must * believe that Adam and Eve were *really * the first humans and that *ALL * humans have descended from them.

 

[DianJo]

JSmitty2005:

This is from paragraph 37 of Pius XII’s Humani Generis:

When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.

You are very correct. All I meant was that no official determination came from the Church on who had relations with whom in order to populate the earth. That’s why I directed her to the Catechism. If you know of a specific paragraph that discusses this, please post it. I skimmed over the catechism and didn’t see anything that mentioned her specific question about the incest part of the original question. I may have just missed it. Thanks again.

 

[Timidity]

mrs_abbott:

I read that the church has “censored” things to make it how they wanted. I read a story of how Adam and Eve supposedly had seven children and the only way for them to keep re-creating was to marry their brothers and sisters but, that the church changed the story because we aren’t suppose to believe in in-cest?

This is just ignorance. Simple logic disproves it.

The Church censors the children of Adam and Eve having children becuase it’s against incest…

…BUT leaves in place that Jesus was descended Isaac, the son that Abraham had with Sarah, his sister! Not only that, But Jesus is also descended from Moab, the child that Lot had with his oldest daughter.

Why wouldn’t it censor that out, too?

I know! Because the Church doesn’t censor Holy Scripture!

 

[Mike_Dye]

I would suggest reading “Where We Got The Bible…Our Debt to the Catholic Church” by Henery G. Graham. It should answer most of your questions.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Something I would like to mention. We humans only think that incest is wrong because God says it is wrong. I know that it is hard to imagine because it is so ingrained in our heads but if God said incest was ok then it would be ok. Does that make sense? With that in mind, I think the key to understanding the implied incest in Genesis is to realize that God had not “banned” incest at that time. God knew it was a necessity to populate the Earth and incest did not offend Him at the time. Later on, under Mosaic Law, incest was “banned” because it was no longer a necessity. So, I guess my point is that if it didn’t offend God at the time, it shouldn’t bother us.

Oh, and one other thing I noticed is that Gen 5:4 says that Adam had other sons and daughters. I don’t see where it is numbered how many or when they were born. I saw in the original post that it said that Adam and Eve only had 7 children…is that from scripture? If so, where?

As to the original post that the Church had censored the Bible that seems rather ridiculous to me on a number of levels. First of all, I flatly refuse to believe that the Church did any such thing. And what I would ask the accusing friend is why the Jewish version of Genesis is the same as the Catholic version of Genesis? If the Church had changed OT scripture there would be a great difference between the two books, would there not?

That only addresses part of the concern of the original post but I hope it helps…

 

[Christ_Soldier]

I can’t agree more about reading Rev.Henry G. Graham’s Where we Got the Bible “From the Kirk to the Church”. I’ve had a copy for about a year now and I’ve read through it many times. It answers many fundamental and historical questions that many Protestants ignore or rephrase and many Catholics don’t know. they have it online at Amazon for about $8.00 last I checked. Here we go…amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895551373?v=glance

That oughta do it…I would spend more time “exigiting” as Protestants would say, but my studies at AMU prevent me. Suffisive to say that that book will answer many questions.

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam!
Fight the Good Fight!

Christ_Soldier

 

[demerzel85]

I would suggest reading “Where We Got The Bible…Our Debt to the Catholic Church” by Henery G. Graham. It should answer most of your questions.

Excellent Resource, but personally that book is more of apologetics against Protestants, rather than people who question the validity of how it was compiled. The book is available online FOC at catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

A better resoure for those qho question the origins of Sacred Scripture is found here holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/francisjamieson/biblefacts/default.asp

 

[mrs_abbott]

This is just ignorance. Simple logic disproves it.

The Church censors the children of Adam and Eve having children becuase it’s against incest…

…BUT leaves in place that Jesus was descended Isaac, the son that Abraham had with Sarah, his sister! Not only that, But Jesus is also descended from Moab, the child that Lot had with his oldest daughter.

Why wouldn’t it censor that out, too?

I know! Because the Church doesn’t censor Holy Scripture!

Then why do we have gaps and different interpretations on certain things?

 

[jmcrae]

Then why do we have gaps and different interpretations on certain things?

Can you provide an example? Most of the apparent contradictions in the Bible have a perfectly simple explanation, but like most things that are perfectly simple, they aren’t always completely obvious.

 

[NotWorthy]

…BUT leaves in place that Jesus was descended Isaac, the son that Abraham had with Sarah, his sister! Not only that, But Jesus is also descended from Moab, the child that Lot had with his oldest daughter.

Are you sure about this?

 

[scylla]

Then why do we have gaps and different interpretations on certain things?

We might have gaps in information since the Church is so old and 2000 years of persecution and people destroying Church property will do that kind of thing.

As an answer to your next question,
Sin

The reason why people rebel from the Church usually is sin, the reason why people don’t get along is sin, the reason why people split to form other denominations is sin.
Since we are supposed to be united in faith and love one another enough to stay united then something must tear people from each other. It sure isn’t God who is the creator of confusion especially when it comes to His truth.

As a Catholic I am rereading the Bible from a Catholic perspective and it is amazing. Get yourself a red letter edition of the Bible and read Jesus’s words about a couple times through and you will marvel at how it all fits together.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[jmcrae]

We might have gaps in information since the Church is so old and 2000 years of persecution and people destroying Church property will do that kind of thing.

Holy Tradition (including the Scriptures), has been divinely preserved. Yes, certain things have been lost or moved around (relics, etc.), but God has been protecting the esentials, including the full text of the Scriptures, just as He promised in Matthew 16:18 - “The gates of Hell shall not prevail.”

As an answer to your next question,
Sin

The reason why people rebel from the Church usually is sin, the reason why people don’t get along is sin, the reason why people split to form other denominations is sin.
Since we are supposed to be united in faith and love one another enough to stay united then something must tear people from each other. It sure isn’t God who is the creator of confusion especially when it comes to His truth.

As a Catholic I am rereading the Bible from a Catholic perspective and it is amazing. Get yourself a red letter edition of the Bible and read Jesus’s words about a couple times through and you will marvel at how it all fits together.

AMEN!!

 

[jimmy]

Are you sure about this?

I am not sure about that one but if you read the story of Jacob you will see that both of his wives were his first cousins. They were his fathers brothers daughters. That was how things were at the time. They looked to their close relatives first.