"Know yourself"

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noumenon said:
WHY? WHY DON"T WE SPEND OUR LIVES PUTTING FORTH AN EFFORT IN UNDERSTANDING OURSELVES? Will that be too much time with ourself? Or maybe we may not like the person we get to know?
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If we truly knew ourselves, how we would react to diverse challenges and people, we’d probably be boring to others and boring to ourselves. Spontaneity is what give color and flavor to us, therefore to the world. Sometimes the results are good, sometimes not.

If faced with a powerful, overwhelming attack from a seemingly irresistable enemy, would we flee or fight, or meekly surrender?

If chance placed us in the presence someone who had the power to greatly enhance our lives if we presented our idea absolutely flawlessly, but if we made even the slightest bumble, we would risk having our lives greatly diminished, and, if we did nothing, things would stay as they are, would we risk it?

Some people know themselves better than others. But I think most of us may not really know ourselves unless we are confronted with extreme challenges with high risk/reward outcomes.

The coin has two sides; courage & cowardice. If you don’t know which side will ALWAYS prevail, regardless of the severity of the challenge and the nearness to a life or death risk / reward, I think hardly any of us really know and understand ourselves.
 
homeloan said:
If we truly knew ourselves, how we would react to diverse challenges and people, we’d probably be boring to others and boring to ourselves. Spontaneity is what give color and flavor to us, therefore to the world. Sometimes the results are good, sometimes not.

If faced with a powerful, overwhelming attack from a seemingly irresistable enemy, would we flee or fight, or meekly surrender?

If chance placed us in the presence someone who had the power to greatly enhance our lives if we presented our idea absolutely flawlessly, but if we made even the slightest bumble, we would risk having our lives greatly diminished, and, if we did nothing, things would stay as they are, would we risk it?

Some people know themselves better than others. But I think most of us may not really know ourselves unless we are confronted with extreme challenges with high risk/reward outcomes.

The coin has two sides; courage & cowardice. If you don’t know which side will ALWAYS prevail, regardless of the severity of the challenge and the nearness to a life or death risk / reward, I think hardly any of us really know and understand ourselves.
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The more we understand ourselves the better we are at helping others.You may understand yourself better in the arena of coping with stress than in the arena of coping with anger.Which means you would probably be more effective at detecting and helping someone undergoing the crisis of stress than ANGER.A person who’s not familar with themselves most likely don’t know what it means to help someone that can’t talk(?) When was the last time you helped someone?
 
BlaineTog said:
I understand that that wasn’t an argument.
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The better we understand ourselves the more we desire to help others.Now, How often do you help others?..You have a pretty nice selection of words to help formulate what one would think is a direct result of a lesson.Most young people are lacking in respect and self-respect because they don’t understand the person within;unless you came into existence as an adult you also understand my perspective.Help someone.
 
To know oneself is to know a bit more of God. It is in the deep introspection that we get the glimpse of the divine, or at least I do. It is said that God created us in him image. What does that mean? How can I understand God and myself if I do not seek the answer to that question. It would seem self-evident, but clearly from some responses it does not.

Of course, some rebel immediately because it sounds too Eastern and probably too self-absorbed. It can be no doubt, but need not be to be sure. The Dali Lama meditates a good deal, yet a more loving and caring individual would be hard to find.

Many turn away from such a process because frankly it is frightening. We see all too quickly the ugly underbelly of ourselves. Our desires, delusions, illusions, fears, meanness, hatreds, jeolousies. We don’t like to think poorly of ourselves. We would rather tamp down those ugly thoughts that raise them before a microscope and examine them carefully.

Yet I would argue, we make little progress as individuals unless we do. We often pervert our faiths unknowingly, believing in a faithfulness that in truth is nothing more than self-serving insulation. But I submit, at the end, we will be a better person for it, and perhaps more faithful. At least we will be honestly so, rather than unconsciously pandering to fears and deeply buried hatreds.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
To know oneself is to know a bit more of God. It is in the deep introspection that we get the glimpse of the divine, or at least I do. It is said that God created us in him image. What does that mean? How can I understand God and myself if I do not seek the answer to that question. It would seem self-evident, but clearly from some responses it does not.

Of course, some rebel immediately because it sounds too Eastern and probably too self-absorbed. It can be no doubt, but need not be to be sure. The Dali Lama meditates a good deal, yet a more loving and caring individual would be hard to find.

Many turn away from such a process because frankly it is frightening. We see all too quickly the ugly underbelly of ourselves. Our desires, delusions, illusions, fears, meanness, hatreds, jeolousies. We don’t like to think poorly of ourselves. We would rather tamp down those ugly thoughts that raise them before a microscope and examine them carefully.

Yet I would argue, we make little progress as individuals unless we do. We often pervert our faiths unknowingly, believing in a faithfulness that in truth is nothing more than self-serving insulation. But I submit, at the end, we will be a better person for it, and perhaps more faithful. At least we will be honestly so, rather than unconsciously pandering to fears and deeply buried hatreds.
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You understand the purpose of the topic.I like that.For you assumed the state of mind that was over me at the time i posted the topic,you also understand that some don’t understand.
"RESPECT"
 
Since I believe we are all on our own path it follows that self knowledge is necessary for self growth - forward movement on our path. We need to understand our motivations, our fears, our anger, etc. as we each have different issues/experiences to deal with and overcome if we are to progress. This is the problem I have with the way most “religions” are structured - they tend to have a set path for everybody, a sort of one-size-fits-all mentality. We are all spiritual beings, but not necessarily religious beings. To say that one can ignore oneself and focus only on God and still get to God may be true, but I would think that since God is present in us all that knowing ourselves and finding the God within would help us reach God more quickly - as in when Jesus said “the Kingdom of God is at hand” - telling us we had it here and now - and we would see the truth of this statement if only we looked deeper inside ourselves (knew ourselves better). Sorry this isn’t more articulate but I’m pooped. :o
 
Swan said:
Since I believe we are all on our own path it follows that self knowledge is necessary for self growth - forward movement on our path. We need to understand our motivations, our fears, our anger, etc. as we each have different issues/experiences to deal with and overcome if we are to progress. This is the problem I have with the way most “religions” are structured - they tend to have a set path for everybody, a sort of one-size-fits-all mentality. We are all spiritual beings, but not necessarily religious beings. To say that one can ignore oneself and focus only on God and still get to God may be true, but I would think that since God is present in us all that knowing ourselves and finding the God within would help us reach God more quickly - as in when Jesus said “the Kingdom of God is at hand” - telling us we had it here and now - and we would see the truth of this statement if only we looked deeper inside ourselves (knew ourselves better). Sorry this isn’t more articulate but I’m pooped. :o
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Articulate or not,your explaination is very clear.It’s helping me to help someone.It corroborates my way of thinking,which push me in that direction,truely.
 
Swan said:
Since I believe we are all on our own path it follows that self knowledge is necessary for self growth - forward movement on our path. We need to understand our motivations, our fears, our anger, etc. as we each have different issues/experiences to deal with and overcome if we are to progress. This is the problem I have with the way most “religions” are structured - they tend to have a set path for everybody, a sort of one-size-fits-all mentality. We are all spiritual beings, but not necessarily religious beings. To say that one can ignore oneself and focus only on God and still get to God may be true, but I would think that since God is present in us all that knowing ourselves and finding the God within would help us reach God more quickly - as in when Jesus said “the Kingdom of God is at hand” - telling us we had it here and now - and we would see the truth of this statement if only we looked deeper inside ourselves (knew ourselves better). Sorry this isn’t more articulate but I’m pooped. :o
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You have nailed it. Some put it, that Jesus said, the Kingdom of God is within. So it becomes a state of mind, or being. We take on the Jesus mantle and in that way we resemble the image of God. However you phrase it, it requires a firm and steady examination of one self. I have no doubt that the Catholic examination of conscience was intended for this purpose rather than as a simply run down and notation of one’s sins of the day. It was meant, I believe as a means of introspection and determination. We cannot change behaviors we do not understand.
 
BlaineTog said:
Because there are more important things, like loving God with your everything and loving your neighbor neighbor as yourself. Knowing yourself is important, but it should be far from your first, much less only, priority.
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If you do not know or love yourself, how can you possibly really love and know God? Does not God dwell within ourselves and all creation?
 
SpiritMeadow said:
You have nailed it. Some put it, that Jesus said, the Kingdom of God is within. So it becomes a state of mind, or being. We take on the Jesus mantle and in that way we resemble the image of God. However you phrase it, it requires a firm and steady examination of one self. I have no doubt that the Catholic examination of conscience was intended for this purpose rather than as a simply run down and notation of one’s sins of the day. It was meant, I believe as a means of introspection and determination. We cannot change behaviors we do not understand.
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Do you think it’s a state of mind that comes into"being"once we come to understand the state of mind that comes over us?I love your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
I would like to continue with the thoughts of who it is that we are, and how is it that we get in touch with ourselves. I hope that I’m in touch with what your thoughts are.
Granted in our understanding of the many terms that are written in Scripture, the one that has inspired my thoughts and vocation is found in I Cor 3:16, “Do you not know that you are the temple of God with the Spirit of God living in you?”
For me, this piece is about “relations,” who we are and who others are. The Spirit of God lives in us, and the question that I have been working on for years is, "With God all around us, how do I get in touch with the Spirit that lives in me, that Spirit that lives in you?
St. Augustine wrote in his Solilioques his prayer, “Lord, let me know myself, let me know you.” This process of what was mentioned in an earlier post of introspection for most is painful. We have to delve deep into who it is that we are, our past, our sinfulness, our relations with others, and our relation with the Spirit living in us, giving us life.
There are many holy men and women who have left us their own experiences of introspections and relations. Not only Augustine comes to mind , but St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Anthony of Egypt. From the Philosophical writers, one that comes to mind is Plotinus’ Enniades. His writings influenced Augustine’s thoughts on interiority. Each have had their own experiences dealing with who they were. There are many others.
The process of knowing one’s self cannot be done over night, and it is just that, a “process.” One of the things that I had to overcome in my own process was the fear of seeing myself for who I was/am. For me it was about baggage that I’ve been carrying around for a long time, that after reflection upon it, was holding me back from becoming who it was that I thought God wanted me to be. It’s a process of opening that “bag” and asking God to help you learn about yourself. For me, it also involved the help of others, because after a while and being truthful with myself, I could not do it by myself. Learning how weak I really am is part of the learning process to “know myself.”
As a religious, this process really started for me in my postulancy, and it continues to this very moment you are reading this. This process has to take time, and one has to make the time in order to do so. I had to leave the rush of daily life and slow down. This is hard for many to do because of time constraints, but if this process is important for you, you will rework your schedule and find the time. For me it’s a lifetime process that is always changing as I do. I am not the same person who opened that bag years ago. God has been molding me.
For me, “knowing myself” is also about discernment, having the strength to be open and honest with myself, to take the good along with the bad, to learn how to do the “loving thing” not only for other but myself as well. That is how I am continuing to learn and know myself.
I pray that your journey is less painful. I pray that your journey is filled and guided by the Spirit that dwells in you. I pray that you can be brutally honest with yourself and learn who it is that you are. I pray that in your darkness that the light of our risen Lord lights your way. And I pray that in your journey, you find rest in God. I pray that as you learn about yourself that you learn about God.
 
noumenon said:
Do you think it’s a state of mind that comes into"being"once we come to understand the state of mind that comes over us?I love your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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No, if I get what you mean here. I’m not sure I do. But I think it is our natural state, and one that children naturally use until its trained out of them. I don’t think as adults we any longer recognize it. Once we understand that it exists its a process of reclaiming it. We do this most imperfectly I believe, at least most of us. All but a few can get but a glimpse I believe. I do think the Buddhists have the process more clearly than we, but I believe that Catholic mystics and protestant ones if there are such do the same. It’s mental training to remove the debris from our minds and allow a clear communication with the Divine. At least this is what I have come to see.
 
Regarding Buddhist meditation techniques, my understanding is that they enter into a state of mind where they try to blank out all thoughts and enter into a state of nothingness. They do not believe that a deity exists within someone, so there is nothing to get in contact with within, just emptiness or a state of “nirvana”.
Some of the newer contemplation techniques of Christian spiritualists (Merton “Christian Buddhism”], Pennington, etc.) expounded upon the use very similar techniques to free their minds of all things so that God could be in touch with them without the interruption of other thoughts. In Keating’s book he mentions about finding a quite place and think of your self sitting by a gentle stream, and when a distracting thought comes to mind, place it on a leaf in the stream and let it go.
For some this process involved pushing through darkness and encountering one’s ego. Its quite amazing how the mind can instill fears to keep one form venturing further.
But I must say that these types of techniques mainly exclude one’s getting to know one’s self. Contemplation is about one’s deep (sometimes) relational thoughts of God. Meditation is different in that can be used to process one’s understanding of many things, including one’s self. Many Hindus use meditation techniques for all types of things.
 
Noumenon, you forget the second of the four words inscribed over the temple of Apollo at Delphi.

The first is, “Know Yourself” (gnoste seauton).

The second is “Nothing to Excess” (miden agan).

That is why we don’t devote everything solely to knowing ourselves. It would be excessive.
 
wtpdosa said:
Regarding Buddhist meditation techniques, my understanding is that they enter into a state of mind where they try to blank out all thoughts and enter into a state of nothingness. They do not believe that a deity exists within someone, so there is nothing to get in contact with within, just emptiness or a state of “nirvana”.
Some of the newer contemplation techniques of Christian spiritualists (Merton “Christian Buddhism”], Pennington, etc.) expounded upon the use very similar techniques to free their minds of all things so that God could be in touch with them without the interruption of other thoughts. In Keating’s book he mentions about finding a quite place and think of your self sitting by a gentle stream, and when a distracting thought comes to mind, place it on a leaf in the stream and let it go.
For some this process involved pushing through darkness and encountering one’s ego. Its quite amazing how the mind can instill fears to keep one form venturing further.
But I must say that these types of techniques mainly exclude one’s getting to know one’s self. Contemplation is about one’s deep (sometimes) relational thoughts of God. Meditation is different in that can be used to process one’s understanding of many things, including one’s self. Many Hindus use meditation techniques for all types of things.
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Meditation takes many forms. It’s use is still the best avenue I’ve found to engage in either introspection or nothingness. Of course Buddhist don’t use mediation to contact God. They do not believe in a diety per se. The do believe in a state of oneness, and I find that the two are basically the same at the core.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
It’s use is still the best avenue I’ve found to engage in either introspection or nothingness.
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As an active contemplative, I agree with you. The techniques of contemplation or meditation (there is a difference) also do help me with my own introspection and connection with the Spirit, of whom I am a temple (I Cor 3: 13).
Thanks for sharing your insights.
 
Didn’t read previous post…

Does anyone remember the saying “to know me is to love me?”

I believe that we do have to take time to get to know ourselves. It is one way to avoid the occasion of sin… Ya got to know yourself a bit to know what to avoid…

Then there is the saying " to know yourself is to know God." Sounds a little new age, but there is truth to that statement. To know who you are (creature), and to know that you have have a creator (God); is to know that there is more to self than just a body… God truly is a God that reveals himself…
 
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