Knowing our God

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paarsurrey

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Hi my Catholic friends!
One of the very important issues in a religion is to introduce God, Who does not exist in the created physical realm. He exists somehow but is known by us the human beings through his attributes, so the Book of a religion must present His true attributes in a very understandable form.
Everything is different from the other only because of its characteristics and attributes. It is quite obvious, if all characteristics and attributes of two or three or four or many things are common then they are of the same species or material. I requested one of my Christian friends about this and he listed as he says from Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, three separate and complete lists of the components of the trinity containing therein the characteristics and attributes (with references from NTBible) of Christian God, the Father, the Son and, the Spirit. I think that would be helpful in ascertaining if each one of the components of trinity is three different entities or they are not.
Do our Catholic brothers have the same attributes as have been mentioned in Martin Luther’s Small Catechism or is there any improvement in them?
This is to know more about God our Creator.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
Hi

This may help you to understand…

ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
  1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
  2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
  3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
  4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
  5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
  6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
  7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
  8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
  9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
  10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
  11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
  12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
  13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
  14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
  15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
  16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
  17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
  18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
  19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
  20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
  21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
  22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
  23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
  24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
  25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
  26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
  27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
  28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
  29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
  31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
  32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
  33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
  34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
  35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
  36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
  37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
  38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
  39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
  40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
  41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
  42. and shall give account of their own works.
  43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
  44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Enjoy!

Peace

John
 
The last post seems to be perfectly correct, too!

God is love.

He Speaks His Love to us, Jesus Christ!

We hear or believe in His love (hear or believe).

Love: patient and kind, sober and chaste, generous and humble, meek and gentle (just to name a few parts).

We believe that He will make us loving.

He gives us a new spiritual heart to hear or accept His Word of love.

It is His love poured into our hearts that makes us love.

He will make us loving, once we say yes to Him.

The last post seems to be perfectly correct, too!
 
Hi
One of my Christian friends on another forum has posted following attributes/characteristics about Christian God.
Characteristics of God the Father (taken from Martin Luther’s Small Catechism).
He is:
a) a spirit (John 4:24)
b) eternal (Ps. 90:1-2)
c) unchangeable (Ps 102:27)
d) omnipotent (all powerful) (Matthew 19:26)
e) omniscient (all knowing) (Ps 139:1-4)
f) omnipresent (present everywhere) (Jer. 23:24)
g) holy (Lev 19:2)
h) just (Deut 32:4)
i) faithful (2 Tim 2:13)
j) good (Ps 118:1)
k) merciful (Ex 34:6-7)
l) gracious (Ex 34:6-7)
m) love (John 3:16)

Characteristics of Jesus (taken from Martin Luther’s Small Catechism).

Jesus is God:
a) Jesus has divine names (Romans 9:5)
b) Jesus is eternal (John 1:1-2)
c) unchangeable (Hebrews 13:8)
d) omnipotent ( Matthew 28:18)
e) omniscient (John 21:17)
f) Jesus does divine works, which only God can do: He forgives sins (Matt 9:6), He created (John 1:3), He will judge (John 5:27), He preserves (Heb 1:3)
g) Jesus receives divine honor and glory (i.e., is worshipped) (Heb 1:6)

Jesus is man:
a) He is called man in the bible (1 Tim 2:5)
b) he has a human body and soul (Luke 24:39)
c) has human (but sinless) feelings: hungry (Matt 4:2), wept (John 11:35), thirsty (John 19:28)

Characteristics of the Holy Spirit (taken from Martin Luther’s Small Catechism).
a) has divine names (i.e., is called God) (Acts 5:3-4, 1 Cor 3:16)
b) omnipresent (Ps 139:7-10)
c) omniscient (1 Cor 2:10)
d) eternal (Heb 9:14)
e) holy (Matt 28:19)
f) does divine works, which only God can do (Gen 1:2, Titus 3:5)
g) receives divine honor and glory (1 Peter 4:14)

I would like to know from my Catholic friends, are the above OK from Catholic view point or you would like to revise the same for correct concept of Christian God.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faith/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
I think that the list is really good. I have not looked up each quote, but I think they are correct.

God speaks His Loving Word to us.

Faith comes by hearing His spoken Word of love.

His Loving Word is poured into our new hearts.

His Loving Word pours kindness, patience, generosity, meekness, courage, forgiveness into our hearts.

When we believe the Word spoken to us, then we will become all that I just mentioned and much more. Actually, He will make us loving. We do not make ourselves loving. He does it. We must accept or believe His love. Again, He makes us loving. We are His instruments. We cannot make ourselves loving. It is His love. He gives us a new heart. He pours His love into our new heart. The more we die, the more loving He makes us.

I believe in kindness. He gives it to me. He makes me kinder.

I believe in patience. He gives it to me. He makes me more patient.

I believe in chastity. He gives it to me. He makes me more chaste.

I believe in meekness. He gives it to me. He makes me meeker.

I believe in generosity. He then gives it to me. He makes me more generous.

I believe in humility. He then gives it to me. He makes me more humble.

I believe in peace. He then gives it to me. He makes me more peaceful. He does it all.

One could continue to list the attributes of His love, and say whether or not one believes in His Loving Word.

I work with many Christians who cannot accept kindness as love.

I know many Christians who cannot accept patience as love.

I know many Christians who cannot accept or believe in sobriety.

I know many Christains who cannot accept or believe in meekness.

I hope I as a Catholic Christian have given a true teaching of our faith.

In these areas they do not believe or hear.

We Christians believe that God is Love.

I hope I have written clearly.

God bless!

For us Christians, faith comes by hearing God’s Word of Love.

Many Christians reject many aspects of God’s love.
 
Paar, I understand that the Christian term of God as “Our Father” is heretical to Muslims. They consider Allah as a Master, who looks upon the people as slaves who can be dropped for others at any time.

Is this an oversimplification?
 
paarsurrey said:
One of the very important issues in a religion is to introduce God, Who does not exist in the created physical realm.
Click to expand...
God has introduced Himself in our earth and was created as a man just like you and me. I recommend that you understand this basic tenant about Catholics and Christians, that the Lord God dwealt among us to lead us into salvation.
 
paarsurrey said:
so the Book of a religion must present His true attributes in a very understandable form.
Click to expand...
Our Bible is the Word of God. His attributes are made known to us and are clearly understanable for our finite minds.
 
Hi
Chart of Comparative Characteristics of God the Father Jesus the Son and the Spirit
(Adopted from Martin Luther’s Small Catechism)
  1. God the Father - a spirit (John 4:24) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute, Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  2. God the Father- eternal (Ps. 90:1-2), Son- eternal, Spirit- eternal
  3. God the Father -unchangeable (Ps 102:27) ) Son-unchangeable (Ps 102:27) Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  4. God the Father- omnipotent (all powerful) (Matthew 19:26) Son-omnipotent (all powerful) Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  5. God the Father -omniscient (all knowing) (Ps 139:1-4) Son-omniscient Spirit- omniscient
  6. God the Father -omnipresent (present everywhere) (Jer. 23:24) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit -omnipresent (present everywhere)
  7. God the Father -holy (Lev 19:2) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit- holy
  8. God the Father -just (Deut 32:4) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  9. God the Father -faithful (2 Tim 2:13) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  10. God the Father -good (Ps 118:1) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  11. God the Father -merciful (Ex 34:6-7) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  12. God the Father -gracious (Ex 34:6-7) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
  13. God the Father -love (John 3:16) Son-left blank-no correspondent attribute Spirit-left blank-no correspondent attribute
Jesus is God:
14. God the father- left blank-no correspondent attribute Jesus has divine names (Romans 9:5) Spirit-has divine names (i.e., is called God) (Acts 5:3-4, 1 Cor 3:16)
15. God the father- left blank-no correspondent attribute Son-Jesus does divine works, which only God can do: He forgives sins (Matt 9:6), He created (John 1:3), He will judge (John 5:27), He preserves (Heb 1:3) Spirit- left blank-no correspondent attribute
16. God the father- left blank-no correspondent attribute Jesus receives divine honor and glory (i.e., is worshipped) (Heb 1:6)
Son Jesus is not omnipresent only God the Father and spirit are omnipresent. Spirit- receives divine honor and glory (1 Peter 4:14)
17. Jesus is man: following attributes are existent in Jesus only not shared by Father or the Spirit.
18. He is called man in the bible (1 Tim 2:5)
19. he has a human body and soul (Luke 24:39)
20. has human (but sinless) feelings: hungry (Matt 4:2), wept (John 11:35), thirsty (John 19:28) - No such attribute in Father and Spirit
  1. has divine names (i.e., is called God) (Acts 5:3-4, 1 Cor 3:16) -Shares it with Son Jesus, Jesus has divine names (Romans 9:5) - God the father has not got it
  2. There is not a single attribute in Spirit which is not shared by Father or Son Jesus.
  3. There are many attributes which exist in Father and Son Jesus but do not exist Spirit
I have kept the contents of Martin Luther’s Small Catechism same, except that I tried to put the characteristics in a table form, so that the similar are viewed in a row, for an easy comparison. Unfortunately I could not do that; our forum post has not the feature available that a table/or photo could be pasted in a post which could have afforded an easy comparison of the attributes of Father, Son and Spirit side by side. I therefore have tried to present the same in word text. I find there are some characteristics found in say Father which are not found in the son or the spirit and the vice versa. My Christian friends are requested to fill in the missing characteristics or kindly mention the rational and logical reasons why there are no corresponding characteristics in others i.e. Son or the Spirit? This would enable us to know the Christian God, more closely.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
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