Knowledge of sinfulness

[Spirithound]

Hey y’all!
Material heresy consists of believing anything contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church. Formal heresy consists of believing anything contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church, while knowing that it is a true teaching of the Church Jesus founded.
My question is this: is formal heresy really possible? Some ancient philosopher (I think Socrates) believed that man always acted towards the good, even though his conception of good may be warped. So, do you think that anyone, while KNOWING that the Catholic Church is Jesus’s true Church, and knowing a particular teaching is a teaching of that Church, and is thus a true teaching, would ever dare to contradict it, much less start their own religion over it?

Please respond both to my question, or to my definition of formal heresy, if you believe it is incorrect.
Thanks, and God bless!

 

[Della]

It’s a matter of the will. People can will to go against things they know all the time. However, only God can truly judge the motives of anyone’s heart, which is why the Church doesn’t name people it thinks are in hell only those it believes are in heaven, and only with very strict criteria.

 

[rpp]

I think you misunderstand. It is not someone who is *trying *to be Catholic and disagrees. It is someone who knows what the Church teaches and rejects or claims the Church is somehow mistaken or should change.

For example, the groups Catholics for Choice and Call for Action both reject the Church’s teaching on Abortion and Holy Orders. These are doctrines. These people know what the Church teaches and claim the Church is wrong (for whatever reason). That is the essence of heresy.

It is not desireing to be Catholic and disagreeing. It is disagreeing after you know what the Church teaches. A person might call themself a Catholic, but they have separated themselves from full communion with the Church because they reject some doctrine of the Church.

No one thinks what they are doing is evil. An abortion doctor does not think what she/he is doing is evil. Your quote from Socrates(?) does not really appply.

By the way, member of the groups I mentioned have been excommunicated in at least one diocese in the USA because of their rejection of Church teachings. The exciommunication was recently confirmed by Rome after an appeal. That would seem to dispel the Socrates suggestion.

 

[Spirithound]

Della, rpp, thanks for your info.
Spirithound

 

[cialovesyou]

From Plato that was…Meno roughly verses 70-80. Socrates wasnt really talking about objective good as Christians do, but rather what is beneficial.
Formal basically means any “approval, sanction, ordering of the act”.
Heresy is defined in canon law 751 as …
“Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith;”
Basically heresy is a contradiction of an infallible belief.

Is this possible? Sure. Doesnt mean they go to hell.

 

[rpp]

From Plato that was…Meno roughly verses 70-80. Socrates wasnt really talking about objective good as Christians do, but rather what is beneficial.
Formal basically means any “approval, sanction, ordering of the act”.
Heresy is defined in canon law 751 as …
“Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith;”
Basically heresy is a contradiction of an infallible belief.

Is this possible? Sure. Doesnt mean they go to hell.

Perhaps not, but it is not a good stating point!

 

[MilesXpisti]

From Plato that was…Meno roughly verses 70-80. Socrates wasnt really talking about objective good as Christians do, but rather what is beneficial.
Formal basically means any “approval, sanction, ordering of the act”.
Heresy is defined in canon law 751 as …
“Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith;”
Basically heresy is a contradiction of an infallible belief.

Is this possible? Sure. Doesnt mean they go to hell.

If they die in the state of mortal sin caused by formal heresy, sure it does.