Kol ishah...can anyone explain this to me?

[Kouyate42]

Being as interested as I am in Judaism, and particularly in Orthodox Judaism, I was wondering about this concept and how it actually works.

As far as I can tell, kol ishah prevents a man from listening to the voice of a woman singing. This is meant as a measure to prevent exciting lust in the man.

But I’m really confused as to when this rule actually applies. Some scholars dismiss the singing of funerary hymns as they are not meant to excite any sort of happy feeling. Others discredit mixed group singing as the woman’s voice won’t be heard seperately from others. Some say recordings aren’t part of kol isha because you’re not listening to a physical person sing.

So, can someone clarify as to when kol isha DOES apply? And as a bonus question, does the woman’s ‘voice’ extend to the playing of musical instruments or doing a recital on a musical instrument?

 

[meltzerboy]

Being as interested as I am in Judaism, and particularly in Orthodox Judaism, I was wondering about this concept and how it actually works.

As far as I can tell, kol ishah prevents a man from listening to the voice of a woman singing. This is meant as a measure to prevent exciting lust in the man.

But I’m really confused as to when this rule actually applies. Some scholars dismiss the singing of funerary hymns as they are not meant to excite any sort of happy feeling. Others discredit mixed group singing as the woman’s voice won’t be heard seperately from others. Some say recordings aren’t part of kol isha because you’re not listening to a physical person sing.

So, can someone clarify as to when kol isha DOES apply? And as a bonus question, does the woman’s ‘voice’ extend to the playing of musical instruments or doing a recital on a musical instrument?

One important thing to realize about Judaism is that there is generally no complete agreement about rules such as this, even within Orthodox Judaism. Some Orthodox rabbis claim the restriction on singing from the Talmud is meant to apply only to situations which may be sexually arousing. The prohibition is based on the laws of modesty and humility, so important in Jewish teaching, which also include regulations of dress, touching, and other behavior regarding both men and women. Therefore, women singing at a funeral would not be applicable. The mixed-group exception you mention might be considered by some rabbis as a leniency, while others would disagree and prohibit this type of singing as well. Likewise, the recording example is open to debate. For the most part, Conservative Judaism does not follow any of these rules, believing they are more rabbinical opinions of Talmud passages than firm doctrines; and, needless to say, Reform Judaism rejects them outright as unrepresentative of the modern age. That’s the way Judaism is on such matters; there is only a small core of dogmatic beliefs that (nearly) all branches of Judaism share.

 

[Bezant]

Being as interested as I am in Judaism, and particularly in Orthodox Judaism, I was wondering about this concept and how it actually works.

As far as I can tell, kol ishah prevents a man from listening to the voice of a woman singing. This is meant as a measure to prevent exciting lust in the man.

But I’m really confused as to when this rule actually applies. Some scholars dismiss the singing of funerary hymns as they are not meant to excite any sort of happy feeling. Others discredit mixed group singing as the woman’s voice won’t be heard seperately from others. Some say recordings aren’t part of kol isha because you’re not listening to a physical person sing.

So, can someone clarify as to when kol isha DOES apply? And as a bonus question, does the woman’s ‘voice’ extend to the playing of musical instruments or doing a recital on a musical instrument?

I won’t pretend to be an expert on this, but I’ve heard from an Orthodox friend, that a few believe this rule begins quite early–from age 3 onwards (according to his studies and personal opinion, age 9).

As I understand it, kol isha’s also a reason why women aren’t allowed to lead Orthodox prayer services.

 

[Kouyate42]

One important thing to realize about Judaism is that there is generally no complete agreement about rules such as this, even within Orthodox Judaism. Some Orthodox rabbis claim the restriction on singing from the Talmud is meant to apply only to situations which may be sexually arousing. The prohibition is based on the laws of modesty and humility, so important in Jewish teaching, which also include regulations of dress, touching, and other behavior regarding both men and women. Therefore, women singing at a funeral would not be applicable. The mixed-group exception you mention might be considered by some rabbis as a leniency, while others would disagree and prohibit this type of singing as well. Likewise, the recording example is open to debate. For the most part, Conservative Judaism does not follow any of these rules, believing they are more rabbinical opinions of Talmud passages than firm doctrines; and, needless to say, Reform Judaism rejects them outright as unrepresentative of the modern age. That’s the way Judaism is on such matters; there is only a small core of dogmatic beliefs that (nearly) all branches of Judaism share.

Given my research into Judaism, I know all too well that even different people within the same denomination can disagree on an issue. And to be fair, that’s part of what I love about Judaism.