Korah, Luther and Calvin

[Annie39]

You seem to be getting awful defensive about Luther and Calvin, and I’m not sure it’s warranted. The OP relayed a question that was posed TO her, by her son–and quite possibly, if not likely, it was a rhetorical question posed to her son–by PROTESTANTS (Notice the part where she volunteered that her son attends a Calvinist Church?).

Hence it doesn’t appear that the OP is equating Korah to Luther and Calvin–but protestants who are drawing the comparison, in order to point out the difference in treatment (neverminding that it works both ways, as the Papacy remains intact, and strong).

What’s more, I submit that the protestant view of the papacy, is significantly more insulting, vitriolic and malicious, than the Catholic view of Luther and Calvin.

Many protestants claim the office of the papacy is the anti-christ–while the Catholic Church has merely decreed Luther and Calvin to be Heretics.

Anti-Christ > heretics (in terms of malice and vitriol).

The bottom line sir, is that your righteous indignation appears to be mis-guided, as it the source of the comparison probably traces back to protestants–not Catholics (in this case anyway–perhaps the OP may clarify this point…).

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut Goya. Yes I’m sure that my son is getting an earful from those Calvinists. However, I was indeed equating Luther and Calvin with Korah. Also, I hope that Tomi replies to my other question about when and where Jesus wrote the bible and how does he (she? The spelling indicates that the person could be female I once knew a female “Tomi”) know this.

Annie

 

[steve_b]

In numbers 16-17 Korah and his followers were swallowed up by the earth as a punishment from God for attempting to usurp Moses’ authority given by God. As Catholics we believe that Peter was given the Keys of authority. I searched the internet looking for an explanation why Luther and Calvin et al. were not similarly punished. BTW, I ask this question because it was asked of me when I told my son who attends a Calvinist Church about the incident.

Thanks,
Annie

Is this because your son left the Catholic Church?

 

[steve_b]

Look at your presuppositions. You also display a profound lack of understanding of how Luther and Calvin saw themselves as opposed to how Korah saw himself, as well as missing the difference between being under law and under grace.

Protestants are well aware of this incident. If what you are saying is valid, then the same puzzle applies to the Orthodox, the churches of the East, and everyone viewed as schismatic by the Catholic Church. There would be no logical reason to limit it to Calvin and Luther.

Your last sentence is correct. However, the thread focuses on Luther and Calvin.

Jesus indicated to His apostles he wanted them i.e. in extension the Church as well. to be one as He and His Father are one. Which means there is zero tollerance for division.

Jn 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21* that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

That’s why division is so serious and why it is condemned and carries with it, such a serious penalty for those who divide or won’t return to the Church.

Rom 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions διχοστασ****ίαdichostasia] and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

What are the consequences of division for that soul?

Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, διχοστασίαdichostasia] factions α****ἵρεσιςhairesis] 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

διχοστασία dichostasia = dissension / sedition
αἵρεσις hairesis = factions / heresies
**

 

[eschator83]

In numbers 16-17 Korah and his followers were swallowed up by the earth as a punishment from God for attempting to usurp Moses’ authority given by God. As Catholics we believe that Peter was given the Keys of authority. I searched the internet looking for an explanation why Luther and Calvin et al. were not similarly punished. BTW, I ask this question because it was asked of me when I told my son who attends a Calvinist Church about the incident.

Thanks,
Annie

It seems very clear, and logical, to me that God wishes our freely-given love and search for His Truth. It seems He has enormous patience in calling us to conversion, and reluctance to intercede in most human affairs, except where He is asked, and of course, when He Wills. Was Korah’s offense greater than Luther’s? Presumably, but who could presume to know the mind of God? Certainly it is God’s Will that humans undergo the trials of human existence.