Koran confirms the Gospel but attacks trinity

[koranist]

Since you opened this up to the witness of the early Church in the epistles I will give you a couple.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Titus 2:11-13 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all, (12) training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and in the present age to live lives that are self-controlled, upright, and godly, (13) while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

More of John’s evangelistic witness to who Jesus IS.

Joh 18:4-6 Jesus, knowing everything that was going to happen to him, went out and said to them, Whom are you looking for?
They answered him, Jesus the Nazorean. He said to them, I AM. Judas his betrayer was also with them.
When he said to them, I AM, they turned away and fell to the ground.

Joh 5:18 Hereupon therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he did not only break the sabbath but also said God was his Father, making himself equal to God.

Then there is the comparison in Luke of Mary “the mother of my Lord” Lk 1:28 to the Ark of the Covenant. You can find the article here

I gave you a post with more, but it was too long, so you get the abridged version, although I think that this is adequate to show the Biblical witness to the Divinity of Christ.

Why would the scriptures be so vague about something as crucial as this? None of the examples you gave me necessarily implies his divinity. I can easily find verses that implies his humanity. Yes, Jesus was born of a virgin birth and yes people saw that as a heresy, but this is what God gave him. The Koran does not dipute that anyways. But I can easily bring forth many examples such as

Proverbs 8:22-30 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him…

Someone can say this means that this prophet of the OT is divine. Certainly someone can look at this and say that he was there before creation that means he was there with God from day one. But this is not the only example, Jeremiah says the same thing. The term son of God is used often in the OT. I fail to see what is Jesus’s uniqueness as compared with God’s other prophets.

Why did not the the prophet there in proverbs talked about Jesus being there also?

 

[bengland]

Why would the scriptures be so vague about something as crucial as this? None of the examples you gave me necessarily implies his divinity. I can easily find verses that implies his humanity. Yes, Jesus was born of a virgin birth and yes people saw that as a heresy, but this is what God gave him.

I gave you this which specifically calls Jesus “our great God and Saviour”. You’re right to use “implies” for the following verse. This doesn’t imply divinity. The verse outright calls Jesus “God”. It’s the verses where Jesus divinity is “implied” which you are suggesting don’t “imply” that Jesus is God, even though this is strongly “implied” in the these other verses.

Titus 2:11-13 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all, (12) training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and in the present age to live lives that are self-controlled, upright, and godly, (13) while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

You’re going to give statements to prove Jesus’ humanity? Please do. This is Catholic doctrine, that Jesus is both God and man united in a hypostatic union, for our sake. That’s the point. That God humbled himself, for us.

And to follow up on a previous point you made in an earlier post that I forgot about then. Catholics do not abide by the Protestant concept of ‘sola scriptura’. We have the Tradition of the early Church and included in that is the Bible.

 

[Lothair]

**The posts of the Quranist are very long and very good. I yet have to read the post of jakasaki properly (carefully). The Quran gives right to Jews and christians to believe and act according to their books (Torah and New Testament). It permits them to spend their life according to their own teachings and to be peaceful, permitting others also to follow their faith freely.

The majority Muslims do not understand the teachings of the Quran as we see so much activity in the field of armed struggle against non-Muslims. The majority muslims believe that any one who has not recited teh kalimah is a kaafir. Such bad beliefs have misled the Muslims and it has brought a bad name to Islam.**

Sorry, but the Quran does not allow Christians and Jews to ‘spend their lives according to their own teachings’ without paying the ‘poll tax’ [Q 9:29]. Refusing to pay the ‘jizya’ is considered a declaration of war by the ‘ahl ad-Dhimmah’ on the Islamic state.

Being a non-Muslim in a Muslim state has been debated and discssed link].

 

[jakasaki]

Sorry, but the Quran does not allow Christians and Jews to ‘spend their lives according to their own teachings’ without paying the ‘poll tax’ [Q 9:29]. Refusing to pay the ‘jizya’ is considered a declaration of war by the ‘ahl ad-Dhimmah’ on the Islamic state.

Being a non-Muslim in a Muslim state has been debated and discssed link].

Jessie - you’re back… welcome back my dear friend. Nice to hear from you again.

Just **don’t **leave this time… OK…!!!

 

[jakasaki]

Sorry, but the Quran does not allow Christians and Jews to ‘spend their lives according to their own teachings’ without paying the ‘poll tax’ [Q 9:29]. Refusing to pay the ‘jizya’ is considered a declaration of war by the ‘ahl ad-Dhimmah’ on the Islamic state.

Being a non-Muslim in a Muslim state has been debated and discssed link].

I know you’ve been gone for a while, but we had this discussion on 9:29 so many times with our muslim members. The thread is now probaly way in the back, but let’s just say it wasn’t a “fruitful” discussion…