Koran Favors Christians Over Jews?

[Chris_LaRock]

I found this in the CD-ROM Koran:

5: 83. Thou shalt certainly find the Jews and those who associate partners with ALLAH to be the most vehement of men in enmity against the believers. And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, `We are Christians,’ to be the nearest of them in friendship to the believers. That is because among them are savants and monks and because they are not arrogant.

5: 84. And when they hear what has been revealed to this Messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears, because of the truth which they have recognized. They say, `Our Lord, we believe, so write us down among the witnesses;

5: 85. `And why should we not believe in ALLAH and in the truth which has come to us, while we earnestly wish that our Lord should include us among the righteous people ?’

 

[jack_hawkins]

I think it’s a close thing tho - we’re next in the firing line so to speak

 

[Chris_LaRock]

It’s odd to say that one so-called ‘infidel’ is more respectable than another so-called ‘infidel’, huh?

 

[hamba2han]

Not all Christians are favored and not all Jews are disfavored:

"Certainly, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Pagans, and you will find the nearest in love to the Believers (Muslims) those who say: “We are Christians.” That is because amongst them are priests (Men devoted to learning) and monks (men who have renounced the world), and because they do not behave proudly. And when they listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad), you see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth. They say: “Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses. And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism) and we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people?” So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good-doers. But those who disbelieved and denied Our signs, they shall be the dwellers of the Hell-Fire."… (Holy Qur’an 5:82-86)

Heck, not all Muslims are going to escape the Hell-Fire because in Islam, there are no guarantees of a place in Paradise for believers.

Somewhat ironically, this is one of the reasons why it is not difficult at all for the faithful to believe that it is indeed the Truth.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Somewhat ironically, this is one of the reasons why it is not difficult at all for the faithful to believe that it is indeed the Truth.

…or not, as the case may be! I prefer to know my salvation has been bought by the blood of Jesus:thumbsup:

 

[Hellisreal]

Not all Christians are favored and not all Jews are disfavored:

"Certainly, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Pagans, and you will find the nearest in love to the Believers (Muslims) those who say: “We are Christians.” That is because amongst them are priests (Men devoted to learning) and monks (men who have renounced the world), and because they do not behave proudly. And when they listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad), you see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth. They say: “Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses. And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism) and we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people?” So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good-doers. But those who disbelieved and denied Our signs, they shall be the dwellers of the Hell-Fire."… (Holy Qur’an 5:82-86)

Heck, not all Muslims are going to escape the Hell-Fire because in Islam, there are no guarantees of a place in Paradise for believers.

Somewhat ironically, this is one of the reasons why it is not difficult at all for the faithful to believe that it is indeed the Truth.

No guarantee of a place in Paradise for believers…

Like in what circumstances? How many believers will be in Hell? Why?

 

[hamba2han]

No guarantee of a place in Paradise for believers…

Like in what circumstances? How many believers will be in Hell? Why?

The Life in this world is a test for the Hereafter

It is mentioned in the Qur’an:

“Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, “we believe”, And that they will not be tested?” (Al Qur’an 29:2)

There are several verses in the Qur’an which clearly specify that our Creator tests us in several different ways

**He who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed; And He is the exalted in Might, oft-forgiving **(Al Qur’an 67:2)

And we test you by evil and by good by way of trial - to Us must ye return.”
(Al Qur’an 21:35)

This life that we lead in this world is a test for the hereafter. If we follow the commandments of the Almighty Creator and we pass the test, we shall enter Paradise i.e., which is Eternal Bliss. If we do not follow the commandments of our creator and fail the test then we shall be put into Hell.

There is a general rule that the more difficult the test, the higher the reward.

Allah (swt) tests, different people in different ways, some with health, some with disease, some with wealth, some with poverty, some with more intelligence, some with less, and depending upon the facility He gives the individual, He tests accordingly.

**“Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives, or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere.” **(Al Qur’an 2:155)

As to the question of how many believers will enter Hell, only the Creator knows that answer for He is the Most Merciful and the Most Just.

He can be only Merciful if He so chooses and allow everyone including the evil-doers and the wrong-doers to enter Paradise… but that would not be Just to those of His creations who have faithfully followed His commands during their life in this world and have in turn been harmed by those evil-doers.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Nope, Christianity still sounds better!
Jesus’ grace means that we can be certain of our salvation, we have his peace unlike the insecurity about their soul that seems to afflict most Mohammedans:thumbsup:
I’m glad the Bible acknowledges I have failed miserably the test set before me, but still God’s grace is sufficient for me!

 

[Chris_LaRock]

The Koran itself seems very antisemetic.

 

[dolphinlove]

Oh thank God for Jesus :heaven:

 

[murtad]

The Koran itself seems very antisemetic.

Yes, Quran is anti semitic but its also Anti Copt, Anti Assyrian (including Syriacs and Chaldeans) and anti anyone not Arab.

Look how the Islamic armies conquered the Christian majority Syriac-speaking Middle East and Coptic-speaking North Africa and forced the ethnic Arameans and ethnic Copts to convert to Islam or pay humilating taxes Jizyah and Kharaj.

If a Christian could not pay his taxes, he had to convert to Islam and this conversion meant giving up his Coptic ethnic identity and becoming an Arabic-speaking Muslim. That is how Egypt is today an Arabic-speaking country but those Egyptian “Arabs” are not really Arabs but Arabised Copts who profess Islam.

In a Sharia-based Islamic State, such as the Ottoman Empire, Muslims are exempt from taxes (ie Jizyah and Kharaj) while non Muslim Dhimmis (ie Greeks, Armenians, Copts and Assyrians) had to pay this humilating taxes.

The Islamic authority use these ill-gotten taxes to enrich themselves and give some as Zakat (ie Islamic version of “tithe”) to help poor Muslims.

This entire Islamic system is fascism - robbing hardworking poor Christians of their wealth which Christian person acquired through honest means. This economic system is akin to the Nazi system, which is recognises as “parasite” - lazy people become masters and while hardworking poor people become slaves. These lazy people make a living on the toils of the hardworking.

 

[Hellisreal]

Yes, Quran is anti semitic but its also Anti Copt, Anti Assyrian (including Syriacs and Chaldeans) and anti anyone not Arab.

Look how the Islamic armies conquered the Christian majority Syriac-speaking Middle East and Coptic-speaking North Africa and forced the ethnic Arameans and ethnic Copts to convert to Islam or pay humilating taxes Jizyah and Kharaj.

If a Christian could not pay his taxes, he had to convert to Islam and this conversion meant giving up his Coptic ethnic identity and becoming an Arabic-speaking Muslim. That is how Egypt is today an Arabic-speaking country but those Egyptian “Arabs” are not really Arabs but Arabised Copts who profess Islam.

In a Sharia-based Islamic State, such as the Ottoman Empire, Muslims are exempt from taxes (ie Jizyah and Kharaj) while non Muslim Dhimmis (ie Greeks, Armenians, Copts and Assyrians) had to pay this humilating taxes.

The Islamic authority use these ill-gotten taxes to enrich themselves and give some as Zakat (ie Islamic version of “tithe”) to help poor Muslims.

This entire Islamic system is fascism - robbing hardworking poor Christians of their wealth which Christian person acquired through honest means. This economic system is akin to the Nazi system, which is recognises as “parasite” - lazy people become masters and while hardworking poor people become slaves. These lazy people make a living on the toils of the hardworking.

But dont they have all the oil anyway? Why do they need so much from us?

 

[Montalban]

No guarantee of a place in Paradise for believers…

Like in what circumstances? How many believers will be in Hell? Why?

This is because Al-lah is vindictive and operates under some whimiscal sense of fair play.

Moslems all believe that they must simply tremble and submit to his will, but even then he may strike them down. There’s no concept of a loving God, and without that their whole faith becomes loveless - which is why their acts of terror don’t make sense - they just ‘do them’ because it’s the will of Al-lah.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

This is because Al-lah is vindictive and operates under some whimiscal sense of fair play.

Moslems all believe that they must simply tremble and submit to his will, but even then he may strike them down. There’s no concept of a loving God, and without that their whole faith becomes loveless - which is why their acts of terror don’t make sense - they just ‘do them’ because it’s the will of Al-lah.

That’s like if I gave you directions to the store, while saying that there’s no garentee you will get there.

 

[jack_hawkins]

This is because Al-lah is vindictive and operates under some whimiscal sense of fair play.

Moslems all believe that they must simply tremble and submit to his will, but even then he may strike them down. There’s no concept of a loving God, and without that their whole faith becomes loveless - which is why their acts of terror don’t make sense - they just ‘do them’ because it’s the will of Al-lah.

yes, this notion of the will of Allah also makes it difficult to persuade the more uneducated Muslims not to marry their cousins (only legalise in Great Britain because Henry VIII wanted to marry his cousin) to avoid the much higher prevalence of birth defects in the Muslim community - because any congenital problems are the will of Allah not down to consanguinity.

 

[Hellisreal]

This is because Al-lah is vindictive and operates under some whimiscal sense of fair play.

Moslems all believe that they must simply tremble and submit to his will, but even then he may strike them down. There’s no concept of a loving God, and without that their whole faith becomes loveless - which is why their acts of terror don’t make sense - they just ‘do them’ because it’s the will of Al-lah.

How very sad. No Loving Father. But, I always see verses in the Koran prinited all over that say Allah is merciful. Where is the mercy?

 

[inJESUS]

The Quran does not favor Christians. The “good” ones it mentions were probably Ebionites or some other heretics whereas orthodox Christians were cursed by Mr. Mhammad because he thought we worship 3 gods, that Mary is divine, ecc. In other words, he had no clue what we believe in so he attacked a strawman.

 

[Vaclav]

In a Sharia-based Islamic State, such as the Ottoman Empire, Muslims are exempt from taxes (ie Jizyah and Kharaj) while non Muslim Dhimmis (ie Greeks, Armenians, Copts and Assyrians) had to pay this humilating taxes.

That is simply not true. Muslims still pay taxes and also must tithe (Zakat). Non-Muslim men pay a tax called the jizya, which allows them to observe their own religious practices and also live in their own communities. The taxes weren’t humiliating, they were generally well-received.

If a Christian could not pay his taxes, he had to convert to Islam and this conversion meant giving up his Coptic ethnic identity and becoming an Arabic-speaking Muslim.

No. The jizya is not paid by the poor, sick, elderly, women, children, slaves, or those otherwise unable to work. Again, this is simply untrue.

Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians were all given dhimmi status and therefore could pay the jizya and continue to worship freely. This was an extension of a common practice begun by the Persian Empire in antiquity. It was much preferred by conquered peoples than enforced religion and enforced language.

The Islamic authority use these ill-gotten taxes to enrich themselves

And to run their Empire(s). You all talk as if this is odd. If anything it was very compassionate for its time. Or shall we discuss how other 8th to 15 th century Empires handled their conquered peoples??

This entire Islamic system is fascism

No it isn’t. Fascism is a 20th century political philosophy that uses corporatism to unite disparate right wing ideologies. Let’s be realistic people.

This economic system is akin to the Nazi system, which is recognises as “parasite” - lazy people become masters and while hardworking poor people become slaves

What? That doesn’t even make sense. You cannot simply revise history to suit your fantasies.

These lazy people make a living on the toils of the hardworking.

No Islamic nation uses the jizya any longer. It has not been used for a very long time. If you compare that system to the European tax systems of the 7th through 15th centuries, I think you might be surprised at who was “using the hardworking poor.”

 

[inJESUS]

Doesnt the quranic passage say that jizya must be paid with humiliation or something of the like?

 

[Hellisreal]

Doesnt the quranic passage say that jizya must be paid with humiliation or something of the like?

The post above yours states that its not even done any longer. So, I guess that solves that for the Muslims.
One less thing to worry about answering.