Koran Stomping Wrong?

  • Thread starter Thread starter gilliam
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gilliam

Guest
Ooops

From: Greyhawk

Last week The Washington Post, jumping on the “defending Newsweek” bandwagon and supporting the magazine’s right to publish unsubstantiated reports of Koran abuse in American prisons, provided a laundry list of similar allegations. Most were from prisoners, but one was from former guard Eric Saar: Erik Saar, a former Army translator at Guantanamo Bay who has written a book about mistreatment of detainees at the military prison, said in interviews and in his book that he never saw a Koran flushed in a toilet but that guards routinely ignored prisoners’ sensitivities by tossing it on the ground while searching their cells.Unfortunately, the author quickly learned that if you’re going to quote a book you might want to read it first. Here’s today’s correction:

A May 18 article incorrectly stated that former Army translator Erik Saar said in previous media interviews that guards at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, routinely tossed Korans on the ground. Saar has said there were “chronic problems” with the way military guards handled the Koran and failures to follow military procedures for respectfully handling the Muslim holy book when guards inspected cells, but he did not say that guards routinely tossed copies of the book.In the immortal words of Emily Latella, “nevermind”. Don’t worry though, we’re sure the original WaPo claims will continue to be heavily quoted as “definitive”. Corrections are notoriously hard to find, and this one’s no exception.

I’m at a loss as to why so many news outlets are so eager to get this story so wrong. Couldn’t some minimum level of research be done prior to publishing something that’s now demonstrably inflammatory? Aren’t there some kind of “journalistic standards” for this sort of thing? I’ve heard that there are, but never having seen them I’ll refrain from speculating as to whether they’ve been violated here.

More on Saar’s book, “co-authored” with reporter Viveca Novak here.

Update: The author of this UPI report in Washington Times read the book more slowly and carefully: In his recent book “Inside the Wire,” former Army interpreter Eric Saar noted that the issue of Korans at Camp Delta was so sensitive that only soldiers of the Muslim faith were allowed into cells at the onset of searches to handle them.Even the WaPo’s “correction” sounds incredibly biased now. Pathetic.
 
These things happen.

Dozens Have Alleged Koran’s Mishandling
Complaints by inmates in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba emerged early. In 2003, the Pentagon set a sensitivity policy after trouble at Guantanamo.
By Richard A. Serrano and John Daniszewski
Times Staff Writers
May 22, 2005

WASHINGTON — Senior Bush administration officials reacted with outrage to a Newsweek report that U.S. interrogators had desecrated the Koran at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility, and the magazine retracted the story last week. But allegations of disrespectful treatment of Islam’s holy book are far from rare.

An examination of hearing transcripts, court records and government documents, as well as interviews with former detainees, their lawyers, civil liberties groups and U.S. military personnel, reveals dozens of accusations involving the Koran, not only at Guantanamo, but also at American-run detention facilities in Afghanistan and Iraq…

In one instance, an Iraqi detainee alleged that a soldier had a guard dog carry a copy of the Koran in its mouth. In another, guards at Guantanamo were said to have scrawled obscenities inside Korans.

Other prisoners said Korans were kicked across floors, stomped on and thrown against walls. One said a soldier urinated on his copy, and others said guards ridiculed the religious text, declaring that Allah’s words would not save detainees…

“They tore it and threw it on the floor,” former detainee Mohammed Mazouz said of guards at Guantanamo Bay. “They urinated on it. They walked on top of the Koran. They used the Koran like a carpet.”…

latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-kor…
 
Inmates are going to claim all kinds of things. Happens with inmates all over the world. Especially if they have lawyers who are thinking about what they can get out of it. By the way, a captured al-Qaeda handbook instructs them to make such claims

Doesn’t prove anything really happened though.

Also realize the LA article is alluding to accusations from the WP article without specifically quoting it. The WP article was inaccurately refurring to the book presented in the 1st post.
 
Time magazine reporter Viveca Novak published Inside the Wire, a book about abuse of prisoners in Guantanamo. She gives coauthor credit to Eric Saar, a former military guard there. The book does not mention any incidents of Koran flushing, instead focusing on the use of female guards to embarrass the prisoners. However, this by no means shows that Koran abuse didn’t occur. The publisher has already issued one [correction/retraction to material it contains](http://www.pengu(name removed by moderator)utnam.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,0_1594200661,00.html):At pages 191-192, Inside the Wire: A Military Intelligence Soldier’s Eyewitness Account of Life at Guantanamo by Erik Saar and Viveca Novak, erroneously states that civilian interrogators hired through an army contract with CACI were in Guantanamo Bay. The book also describes the activities of two contract interrogators. CACI has unequivocally stated that it had no involvement in any interrogation operations at Guantanamo and that it had no relationship whatsoever with the civilian contract interrogators involved in the use of the interrogation techniques discussed in the book. The Penguin Press and the Authors acknowledge and regret the error. In addition, The Penguin Press and the Authors are taking a number of corrective actions, including inserting erratum slips in Penguin’s remaining copies of the book, providing erratum slips to Penguin’s accounts for insertion into books that have already been shipped, and advising media organizations that will be interviewing the authors of the error. Future printings will be corrected to address the error.
 
It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not because US credibility is already shot to hell. After the picture of the guy on the box with a bag over his head and his arms out like that of Christ, we lost any claim of moral high ground. It’s over.

Besides, this is what happens in a Holy War. Any slight, and story, any tall tale is used to gin up the masses. US troops were in camps outside of Iraq named “Pennsylvania, New York, and Washington” as well as others. Coincidence?

Posting “happy talk” and trying to discredit the media is all part of the psycholgical game that is going on here.
 
40.png
gilliam:
Inmates are going to claim all kinds of things. Happens with inmates all over the world.
Can you imagine that our media would take the advice and the word of an inmate in any other circumstance? This is in light of the fact that these inmates are known enemies of our country and would love to kill us. One would think that they never covered the 9-11 attack or the 11-3 attack. What are they thinking. Claims will fly now that some have been sensationalized. I guess it must sell papers. I don’t buy papers anymore, so it is not me. Quit buying lies!!!
 
40.png
Thekla:
Posting “happy talk” and trying to discredit the media is all part of the psycholgical game that is going on here.
Don’t forget to add that “I hate America First Talk” that is also going on here. Not mentioning any names…
 
It amazes me that there are those who would support politicians over their fellow citizens. That’s the true treachery of those hacks; encouraging citizens to turn on one another. Perhaps being of German descent makes me more accutely aware of the strategy.

“Loyalty to the country, always. Loyalty to the government, when they deserve it.”
Mark Twain
 
40.png
Thekla:
It amazes me that there are those who would support politicians over their fellow citizens.
Mark Twain
What fellow citizens? Do you mean people that have a vested interest in selling a book or a newspaper? I am of some German descent and some Irish descent and I would never blindly believe print media. What does that mean anyway? We all need to be suspect. I have raised teenagers and I am suspicous of everything I hear. Just ask them.
 
If it didn’t happen, good.
If it did, then yes, stomping on their Holy Book is wrong.
 
These allegations are a bunch of bs. Nothing more.
40.png
Thekla:
These things happen.

Dozens Have Alleged Koran’s Mishandling
Complaints by inmates in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba emerged early. In 2003, the Pentagon set a sensitivity policy after trouble at Guantanamo.
By Richard A. Serrano and John Daniszewski
Times Staff Writers
May 22, 2005

WASHINGTON — Senior Bush administration officials reacted with outrage to a Newsweek report that U.S. interrogators had desecrated the Koran at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility, and the magazine retracted the story last week. But allegations of disrespectful treatment of Islam’s holy book are far from rare.

An examination of hearing transcripts, court records and government documents, as well as interviews with former detainees, their lawyers, civil liberties groups and U.S. military personnel, reveals dozens of accusations involving the Koran, not only at Guantanamo, but also at American-run detention facilities in Afghanistan and Iraq…

In one instance, an Iraqi detainee alleged that a soldier had a guard dog carry a copy of the Koran in its mouth. In another, guards at Guantanamo were said to have scrawled obscenities inside Korans.

Other prisoners said Korans were kicked across floors, stomped on and thrown against walls. One said a soldier urinated on his copy, and others said guards ridiculed the religious text, declaring that Allah’s words would not save detainees…

“They tore it and threw it on the floor,” former detainee Mohammed Mazouz said of guards at Guantanamo Bay. “They urinated on it. They walked on top of the Koran. They used the Koran like a carpet.”…

latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-kor…
 
40.png
catsrus:
If it didn’t happen, good.
If it did, then yes, stomping on their Holy Book is wrong.
Why?

The Koran is either God’s book or it’s not. If it is, then we better be reading it and converting to Islam. But it’s not, is it? It is a product of a religion concocted by Mohammed who was either: 1) a liar; 2) a lunatic; 3) an agent, willing or not, of the devil; or 4) a frustrated dark age novelist. Are there any other possibilities?

Now none of those four possibilities makes Mohammed’s book the least bit “holy.”

If I publish the DaVinci Code in Charmin form and use it liberally in my bathroom, I am sending a message. The message I send is one of contempt for the blasphemy present in the book. I do not express any particular contempt for the author of the book … just the end product of his sordid imagination.

If I publish the Koran in Charmin form and use it liberally in my bathroom, I am also sending a message. The message is one of contempt for the blasphemy present in the book. I do not express any particular contempt for the misguided souls who happen to believe the Koran is “holy.” It is the mission of the Church to teach them the Truth and bring them into the Church where they may be saved.

So it isn’t evil to heap abuse upon this book, the Koran. But it would be if your intention was to deliberately stir up the passions of the Muslims and foment hatred. That would be deplorable. But I would not look with jaundiced eye upon an apostle and saint who chose to urinate on the Koran in order to make perfectly clear to these people that God does not bless the belief that it represents.

The example of St. Boniface, Apostle of Germany, cutting down the “sacred” Oak of Geislar comes to mind. How insensitive! How uncharitable and anti-ecumenical! How like a warrior of God doing battle against principalities, powers and other angelic creeps that do us harm!
 
40.png
benedictusoblat:
Why?

The Koran is either God’s book or it’s not. If it is, then we better be reading it and converting to Islam. But it’s not, is it? It is a product of a religion concocted by Mohammed who was either: 1) a liar; 2) a lunatic; 3) an agent, willing or not, of the devil; or 4) a frustrated dark age novelist. Are there any other possibilities?

Now none of those four possibilities makes Mohammed’s book the least bit “holy.”

If I publish the DaVinci Code in Charmin form and use it liberally in my bathroom, I am sending a message. The message I send is one of contempt for the blasphemy present in the book. I do not express any particular contempt for the author of the book … just the end product of his sordid imagination.

If I publish the Koran in Charmin form and use it liberally in my bathroom, I am also sending a message. The message is one of contempt for the blasphemy present in the book. I do not express any particular contempt for the misguided souls who happen to believe the Koran is “holy.” It is the mission of the Church to teach them the Truth and bring them into the Church where they may be saved.

So it isn’t evil to heap abuse upon this book, the Koran. But it would be if your intention was to deliberately stir up the passions of the Muslims and foment hatred. That would be deplorable. But I would not look with jaundiced eye upon an apostle and saint who chose to urinate on the Koran in order to make perfectly clear to these people that God does not bless the belief that it represents.

The example of St. Boniface, Apostle of Germany, cutting down the “sacred” Oak of Geislar comes to mind. How insensitive! How uncharitable and anti-ecumenical! How like a warrior of God doing battle against principalities, powers and other angelic creeps that do us harm!
The truth bothers many times to many people
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top