Kreeft: Jesus Shock, revisited

[PaulinVA]

It has to make you wonder why Jesus would have spent soooo much time preaching and teaching about things like entering thru the narrow gate, warning about damnation, giving us the beatitudes, asking us to pick up our cross and follow Him, telling us that not all who cry out lord, Lord will be saved, telling us to eat his flesh and drink his blood, else we have no life in us, to keep the commandments ,and so much more. Hanging your hat on a single line of scripture while ignoring all of Jesus’ teachings seems pretty foolish to me.

Well, either salvation is a gift or it isn’t.

If I have to work so hard for it, then I am confused about the fact that I can’t earn it, it’s a gift.

Phillipians 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;​

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagianism

Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid. Pelagius taught that the human will, as created with its abilities by God, was sufficient to live a sinless life, although he believed that God’s grace assisted every good work. Pelagianism has come to be identified with the view, (whether Pelagius agreed or not), that human beings can earn salvation by their own efforts. This theological theory is named after the British monk Pelagius (354–420 or 440), although he denied, at least at some point in his life, many of the doctrines associated with his name.

 

[otjm]

Which places the Catholic Church into the category of a cult. A common characteristic of cults is that they insert themselves between God and man, claiming membership, money and obedience to their particular organisation is the only way to salvation.

“Upon this rock I will build my church” doesn’t go beyond Peter himself. The Catholic Church created a fictional narrative of papal succession, and a fictional authority to mediate between God and man that not even Peter himself claimed.

I can see that you have widely read the Fathers of the Church… not. You might avail yourself to what all too many Protestants are not even aware of, and that is the writings of the first several centuries of Christian writers.

As was said by a rather famous Protestant who converted to the Catholic Church: “To read the Fathers of the Church is to cease to be Protestant”.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

Well, either salvation is a gift or it isn’t.

If I have to work so hard for it, then I am confused about the fact that I can’t earn it, it’s a gift.

Phillipians 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;​

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagianism

Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid. Pelagius taught that the human will, as created with its abilities by God, was sufficient to live a sinless life, although he believed that God’s grace assisted every good work. Pelagianism has come to be identified with the view, (whether Pelagius agreed or not), that human beings can earn salvation by their own efforts. This theological theory is named after the British monk Pelagius (354–420 or 440), although he denied, at least at some point in his life, many of the doctrines associated with his name.

You are “working so hard for it” by obeying God’s will for us. ! You can call it work if you want to. Jesus makes demands on us and did so during his earthly ministry. We could never hope to attain salvation without Christ’s sacrifice, but there is definitely no guarantee that you will be saved unless you can “be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” as Jesus instructed. All of his teachings are important and everyone of them should be heeded and acted upon. This is truly your life’s work.

 

[clem456]

Which places the Catholic Church into the category of a cult. A common characteristic of cults is that they insert themselves between God and man, claiming membership, money and obedience to their particular organisation is the only way to salvation.

How is the Church “between” God and man? The Church does not claim any such thing. The Church recognizes the communion of humanity, as constituted by Christ, is called together as Christ’s Mystical Body, AKA “the Church”. The Church is inseparable from it’s head. Or do you claim Christ is divided against himself?
“Claiming membership”: I would be curious if you consider yourself one of “the elect”? Are you a “member” of the elect? Now, *if it’s just you *that’s elect, then granted, you have no membership to concern yourself with.
“Money”: You don’t give money to your church, to further it’s mission? I find that hard to believe.
“Obedience”: You are obedient to no one? Really? How did you learn the Gospel? How do you know who Christ is? Did he appear to you in a personal vision and reveal himself fully? Or do you listen to (ob-audiere) other people? That little word obedience means to listen to someone other than yourself, it does not mean you are a slave to someone else.