Kum ba ya

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rr1213 said:
I don’t think this is accurate at all.
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Why, then, the disdain for the crucifix? Why show an empty cross?
You’ll probably say that it is to better illustrate the Resurrection. But there IS no Resurrection without the Sacrifice.
 
elvisman said:
Why, then, the disdain for the crucifix? Why show an empty cross?
You’ll probably say that it is to better illustrate the Resurrection. But there IS no Resurrection without the Sacrifice.
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What’s not accurate is your statement:

“It always amazes me that most Protestants don’t want to be reminded of what Jesus had to go through to save their souls.”

As Protestants, we are very aware of our sin and Christ’s sacrifice. It is bearing false testimony to say that we are not.

Many Protestants favor an empty cross instead of a crucifix to emphasize that fact that Christ is no longer on the cross. As I’ve said numerous times in this very forum, this is a matter of preference…no more and no less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a crucfix and nothing wrong with the empty cross. Both symbolize important truths about Christ: (i) his passion and (i) his resurrection. Both are appropriate symbols of these truths.
 
Qwikness said:
My Protestant neighbor came over and there was a book inside the book was picture of Jesus suffering and above it said, The Passion, Crucifixion, and Death. She snickered and said, “Look how sad he looks.” I made a joke to try to lighten the mood and to try not make her feel like an idiot (she was my neighbor afterall). I said, “Well he was having a really bad day.” Again she said something " I’m sorry, but Jesus was not always so miserable." Like that’s was not something that needed to be dwealt upon. My eyebrows went up, I almost shook my head, I must have been a bewildered, and I said, “It was his Passion afterall.” She said “Hm, yeah.” dismissing it. Is she only focus on the Joyful and not the Sorrowful? Have you had any experiences with Protestants that only focused on the happy and not the sad?
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It’s the Happy Clappy / Charismatic mentality. It’s a lack of “Full Gospel”
 
rr1213 said:
What’s not accurate is your statement:

“It always amazes me that most Protestants don’t want to be reminded of what Jesus had to go through to save their souls.”

As Protestants, we are very aware of our sin and Christ’s sacrifice. It is bearing false testimony to say that we are not.

Many Protestants favor an empty cross instead of a crucifix to emphasize that fact that Christ is no longer on the cross. As I’ve said numerous times in this very forum, this is a matter of preference…no more and no less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a crucfix and nothing wrong with the empty cross. Both symbolize important truths about Christ: (i) his passion and (i) his resurrection. Both are appropriate symbols of these truths.
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I would say that THIS is inaccurate.
The empty across doesn’t convey the Resurrection. It shows that he was taken down and buried.
The empty TOMB conveys the Resurrection. An empty cross means NOTHING. It is simply a means of death for criminals during the time of Roman rule.
On the other hand, JESUS on the cross means everything. Without his great sacrifice, not one ioda of our faith means anything.
I’m not bearing fasle testimony to anything. This is what I am told by many Protestants, INCLUDING my own Evangelical Protestant siblings:
The emphasis of the Christian faith, they say, is on the Resurrection, NOT the Crucifixion.
You can’t have the former without the latter.
 
rr1213 said:
Many Protestants favor an empty cross instead of a crucifix to emphasize that fact that Christ is no longer on the cross. As I’ve said numerous times in this very forum, this is a matter of preference…no more and no less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a crucfix and nothing wrong with the empty cross. Both symbolize important truths about Christ: (i) his passion and (i) his resurrection. Both are appropriate symbols of these truths.
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Do you really believe it’s a matter of preference? When the Protestant churches are trending to the “Happy Clappy” or the “Prosperity Gospel”?

I think it more in line with the guilt some feel when they see Jesus on the Cross. Some just don’t want to be reminded to frequently that the petty personal problems and diliemnas are a mere fading shadow compared to what our Lord Jesus Christ had to suffer for them.

For God so loved the word, that he gave his only begotten son… A empty Cross does not do JUSTICE to that part of the verse.
 
Hellisreal said:
Check the liturgical dance thread in the eastern christianity forum.

Charasmatics.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
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I’ll pass. Thank you kindly. 🙂

People carrying on in church like they have no fear of God. Why act any different in church than you would if you found yourself instantly standing at the foot of God’s throne. Would you jump up and down looking up at God and yelling or would you be prostrate on the floor with a feeling of unworthiness to actually be in the presence of God. I really don’t think the Early Christians in Acts were jumping around singing and dancing before or after they broke the bread.
 
elvisman said:
I would say that THIS is inaccurate.
The empty across doesn’t convey the Resurrection. It shows that he was taken down and buried.
The empty TOMB conveys the Resurrection. An empty cross means NOTHING. It is simply a means of death for criminals during the time of Roman rule.
On the other hand, JESUS on the cross means everything. Without his great sacrifice, not one ioda of our faith means anything.
I’m not bearing fasle testimony to anything. This is what I am told by many Protestants, INCLUDING my own Evangelical Protestant siblings:
**The emphasis of the Christian **faith, they say, is on the Resurrection, NOT the Crucifixion.
**You can’t **have the former without the latter.
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Why do you keep on changing colors? It’s quite annoying.

Believe me, if you think that Protestants do not understand or appreciate the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross…I don’t know any other way of saying this but “you’re wrong.”

As for what an empty cross symbolizes, maybe that should be determined by those who use it as a symbol, not those like you who don’t care to use it.
 
JoeyWarren said:
Do you really believe it’s a matter of preference? When the Protestant churches are trending to the “Happy Clappy” or the “Prosperity Gospel”?

I think it more in line with the guilt some feel when they see Jesus on the Cross. Some just don’t want to be reminded to frequently that the petty personal problems and diliemnas are a mere fading shadow compared to what our Lord Jesus Christ had to suffer for them.

For God so loved the word, that he gave his only begotten son… A empty Cross does not do JUSTICE to that part of the verse.
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Don’t confuse praise music and contemporary worship services with the prosperity gospel. They are two completely different things. The first is a worship preference (not my preference by the way) while the second is heresy.

We all should feel guilt when we see Christ on the Cross. After all he died for my sins…as well as yours and the sins of the world. We should feel guilty because we are guilty.
 
rr1213 said:
Believe me, if you think that Protestants do not understand or appreciate the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross…I don’t know any other way of saying this but “you’re wrong.” .
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Only during Easter Sunday. Even then there is not recognition on the Friday before. At least not when I was a Protestant. That Friday tends to be an ordinary day. And then Easter Sunday has become nothing but a fashion show for those that can afford to buy a new fancy dress and hat (that btw gets worn 95% of the time only ONCE) or a fancy new suit. Guys are not that much into the Easter Sunday show thing as women are. Sorry gals, but it is reality.
As for what an empty cross symbolizes, maybe that should be determined by those who use it as a symbol, not those like you who don’t care to use it
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The problem is that the “Empty Cross” is not a BIBLICAL symbol for the resurrection.

An empty tomb is a Biblical symbol for the resurrection.

The Crucifix is a Biblical symbol for the crucifixion.
 
Stated simply, whether you use a crucific or an empty cross just doesn’t matter. Moreover, I’m not aware of any Scriptural grounds and/or definitive statements from your Church to the contrary.

What matters is understanding the sacrifice that Christ made for YOU and loving HIM with all your heart, mind, soul and strength in enternal appreciation and awe (neither word being sufficient) of God’s sacrifice and love. Frankly, if we do this, I seriously don’t think God will have an issue with whether we wear a crucific or cross around our neck.
 
JoeyWarren said:
And then Easter Sunday has become nothing but a fashion show for those that can afford to buy a new fancy dress and hat (that btw gets worn 95% of the time only ONCE) or a fancy new suit. Guys are not that much into the Easter Sunday show thing as women are. Sorry gals, but it is reality.
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This is not a Protestant thing, it’s a non-practicing Christian thing. The Catholics who only show up twice a year for Mass (Christmas and Easter) put on the same “fashion show”.
 
rr1213 said:
Don’t confuse praise music and contemporary worship services with the prosperity gospel. .
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Not confusing. There is an underlying natural progression. The door was left ajar when services veered into the charismatic/happy clappy mode. Then the feel good mentality eventually produced the 'Prosperity Gospel" which is nothing more then the physical monentary manifestation of the “Happy Clappy”.
We all should feel guilt when we see Christ on the Cross. After all he died for my sins…as well as yours and the sins of the world. We should feel guilty because we are guilty.
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Now you said something that is true. But what you don’t realize, the majority does not wnant to feel guilty. You feel guilty, I fell guilty. Too many have succumbed to the 'Been There, Done That" virus. Feeling guilty negates any pleasure from a new experience. or just plain ole daily life.

Let me give you the graphical symbolism that reflects how some feel

We preach Christ Crucified
I am Crucfied with Christ.

You will find these two phrases in nearly any bible.

Will you find something like with respect to the Resurrection? IE see below.

We preach Christ Resurrected.
I am Resurrected with Christ.

NO! but you will find some implicit phrases.

So here is the typical Catholic

I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED.
I AM RESURRECTED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST RESURRCTED.

Here is me

I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED.
I AM RESURRECTED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST RESURRCTED.

and here is my perception of Protestants as it was my perception as well

I AM RESURRECTED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST RESURRCTED.-]
I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED.
/-]
 
lak611 said:
This is not a Protestant thing, it’s a non-practicing Christian thing. The Catholics who only show up twice a year for Mass (Christmas and Easter) put on the same “fashion show”.
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Like who has the prettiest bible tote bag? I have seen that in Protestant churches. I never knew that there were so many accessories to the bible before. Even Costco sells them. (and only protestant bibles too)😦
 
lak611 said:
This is not a Protestant thing, it’s a non-practicing Christian thing. The Catholics who only show up twice a year for Mass (Christmas and Easter) put on the same “fashion show”.
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Not in my parish they don’t. We are pretty much laid back here. But you will get a tongue lashing from the Priest if you wear something unappropiate.
 
JoeyWarren said:
Not confusing. There is an underlying natural progression. The door was left ajar when services veered into the charismatic/happy clappy mode. Then the feel good mentality eventually produced the 'Prosperity Gospel" which is nothing more then the physical monentary manifestation of the “Happy Clappy”.

Now you said something that is true. But what you don’t realize, the majority does not wnant to feel guilty. You feel guilty, I fell guilty. Too many have succumbed to the 'Been There, Done That" virus. Feeling guilty negates any pleasure from a new experience. or just plain ole daily life.

Let me give you the graphical symbolism that reflects how some feel

We preach Christ Crucified
I am Crucfied with Christ.

You will find these two phrases in nearly any bible.

Will you find something like with respect to the Resurrection? IE see below.

We preach Christ Resurrected.
I am Resurrected with Christ.

NO! but you will find some implicit phrases.

So here is the typical Catholic

I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED.
I AM RESURRECTED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST RESURRCTED.

Here is me

I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED.
I AM RESURRECTED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST RESURRCTED.

and here is my perception of Protestants as it was my perception as well

I AM RESURRECTED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST RESURRCTED.-]
I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED.
/-]
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I like your use of graphics to make your point, but I remained unpersuaded.
 
rr1213 said:
What matters is understanding the sacrifice that Christ made for YOU and loving HIM with all your heart, mind, soul and strength in enternal appreciation and awe (neither word being sufficient) of God’s sacrifice and love. Frankly, if we do this, I seriously don’t think God will have an issue with whether we wear a crucific or cross around our neck.
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And I would utter and will utter the loudest Amen to that. You have no argument from me on that.
 
Closing comment before I retire to another thread.

Every single time an apparent anti-catholic steps up to me and tells me that “Jesus is not on the Cross anymore” and point at my Crucifix.

I respond in kind.
The Empty Tomb is the only Biblical sign of the Resurrection.

This Crucifix is a CONSTANT REMINDER of what OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST SUFFERED FOR ME AND YOU.

I take you are afraid of being reminded constantly?

This crucifix is a CONSTANT REMINDER of what John wrote: "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.\

This crucifix is a CONSTANT REMINDER of what Paul wrote: “I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST”

This crucifix is a CONSTANT REMINDER of what Paul also wrote: “WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED”

What does your bible teach you?
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I rarely get much of a Rebuttal. I even have Business cards with that on it.

It’s wonderful to see a Pastor stumble when I do that to them…😃
 
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