Kyrie Eleison... Diocese of Spokane at risk of losing its properties!

[CatholicNerd]

SPOKANE, Wash. – The bankruptcy filing of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Spokane raises the prospect that some or all of the 82 parishes could be sold to pay victims of sexual abuse by priests.

It could also prompt Catholic schools to close; Catholic cemeteries to be sold and the bodies disinterred; and charities tied to the Catholic church to scale back their work.

That has outraged some Catholics who wonder why they must pay for the depredations of a few pedophile priests.

“Do 90,000 innocent people deserve to be punished for the sins of those few,” said Robert Hailey, co-chairman of an association of parishes in the Spokane Diocese. “These people and their ancestors put their sweat and their money into building the churches and schools that you see in parishes today.”

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Destroying%20the%20Diocese

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Naturally, this sort of thing has not been posted on the major news sites or appeared in the major newspapers… yet this is perhaps the biggest and most frightening piece of news about this case that I’ve ever encountered. The Catholics of the Latin Diocese of Spokane could realllly use our prayers right now Perhaps there would be some way to organize a massive campaign to contribute money to keep, at the very least, the diocesan Cathedral in the hands of the diocese. Any ideas?

 

[Lisa_N]

Same thing happening in Portland archdiocese. The ‘victims’ want to take all of the parishes since the diocese itself does not have enough to pay all of the possible claims. It’s sickening. Ours is in bankruptcy is Spokane?

Lisa N

 

[CatholicNerd]

Lisa N:

Same thing happening in Portland archdiocese. The ‘victims’ want to take all of the parishes since the diocese itself does not have enough to pay all of the possible claims. It’s sickening. Ours is in bankruptcy is Spokane?

Lisa N

Sadly. :crying: What can they do with our churches? They could tear them down, certainly, but that would probably cost a fair amount of money. My fear is that they’ll sell them to all kinds of frightening people. I think I’d die if I returned to Spokane to find the beautiful Cathedral being used as Hillary’s 2008 campaign headquarters or a Planned Parenthood “clinic” or something dreadful like that. Ok, I suppose that’s a bit outlandish… but a year ago, the thought of Spokane losing all of its parishes seemed a bit outlandish, too.

 

[Nohome]

Lisa N:

The ‘victims’ want to take all of the parishes since the diocese itself does not have enough to pay all of the possible claims.Lisa N

By calling them ‘victims’ are trying to suggest that the problems the church now faces are their fault? What about the godless perverts that raped our children? I think your anger is understandable, but misdirected.

Nohome

 

[Lisa_N]

Nohome:

By calling them ‘victims’ are trying to suggest that the problems the church now faces are their fault? What about the godless perverts that raped our children? I think your anger is understandable, but misdirected.

Nohome

Here is the reality. Much of the money goes to attorneys. Much of the money goes to people who have not really demonstrated any damage. There are claims that are totally false. The few who were severely affected by this despicable behavior deserve whatever it takes to help them heal. It’s the hangers on and attorneys who disgust me. They deserve nothing.

Unfortunately the church has been deemed guilty and all someone needs to do is say Father X patted me on the rear once when I walked down the hall so I should get a million bucks. If all we were paying were those victims of “godless perverts” we would not be going bankrupt. THis has become a cottage industry for a group of smarmy attorneys and a lot of opportunists. I have a friendly acquaintence who was solicited numerous times by attorneys “just in case” and after a while he said well what the heck and put his name on the list. He said he’d never been abused and told the attorneys that but it’s become like those class action lawsuits where you don’t have to show damage you just had to be there at the time

Lisa N

 

[JOHNYJ]

Lets keep things straight.The only victims here are those people when they were kids. The church acted despicably towards them and their families. Now its payback time. The church has the expensive lawyers that are guaranteed to get paid. All that money the church has from the faithful to make sure they get paid. The victims lawyers,only get paid if they win. In the begining you had all the power of the Catholic church arayed against them.It was never sure that any would ever beat the institutional church. They have and they continue to ,thanks to good Catholic judges and Juries who know the diference bewtween corupt priests and bishops and " The Faith ".WE are at a tipping point so to speak. The bishops are learning that stonewalling, obfuscation, delays, and lies, tend to piss people off.In this case judges. Having the judge hearing your case mad at you is not good. Also the bishops are getting gun shy. They are starting to settle faster.Thinking the judgements will be more moderate. They are paying off easier, so maye people who don’t deserve it are getting money. Too bad.

 

[JOHNYJ]

The first thing to be sold should be the Episcopal Palace. In fact in every diocese that has to pay the first thing to go should be the bishops residence.

 

[Nohome]

Lisa N:

Here is the reality. Much of the money goes to attorneys.

Rest assured the attorneys that represent the RCC are making the real money. They get paid with your offerings.
Lisa N:

If all we were paying were those victims of “godless perverts” we would not be going bankrupt.

If your bishop would have sent these creeps to the local authorities rather than shuffle them around there wouldn’t be so many victims with claims
Lisa N:

I have a friendly acquaintence who was solicited numerous times by attorneys “just in case” and after a while he said well what the heck and put his name on the list. He said he’d never been abused and told the attorneys that but it’s become like those class action lawsuits where you don’t have to show damage you just had to be there at the time

If you know someone who has commited purgery, worse yet committed purgery with the aid of an attorney, you have a legal obligation to tell the authorities. The case will be thrown out and the attorney will be disbarred.

I know two victims of sexual abuse. It has affected every aspect of their life. On guy can’t keep a job, is single, lonely and constantly think about killing himself. A million dollars can’t even begin to repay the damages done. If your diocese has to sell every thing it owns to make ammends, so be it. You reep what you sow and the bishops have sown demon seeds far too long. It’s payback time.

Nohome

 

[Lisa_N]

Nohome:

Rest assured the attorneys that represent the RCC are making the real money. They get paid with your offerings.

The Church is paying BOTH sides’ attorneys in this case. At this point $325,000 A MONTH is going into attorneys pockets, BOTH SIDES.

Nohome:

If your bishop would have sent these creeps to the local authorities rather than shuffle them around there wouldn’t be so many victims with claims.

There aren’t that many victims but they all want a boatload of money. I think there are 58 plaintiffs in the Spokane case. I am not sure how many in Portland but we are not talking thousands or even hundreds. As to ‘shuffling them around’ people are looking at this case with hindsight. At the time it occurred both the Bishops and the psychiatrists thought they could cure these predators. Obviously both were wrong but wrong is not malice.

Nohome:

If you know someone who has commited purgery, worse yet committed purgery with the aid of an attorney, you have a legal obligation to tell the authorities. The case will be thrown out and the attorney will be disbarred.

No one has testified yet so no crime has been committed. I simply reported that someone I know was solicited to become part of the case although he says he was not abused nor did he have any adverse consequences. I told a priest who is part of the bankruptcy case about this. My concern is that they are simply making it a class action suit where all you have to prove is some proximity to an abusive priest and you hit the jackpot. Since the plaintiffs are in groups, individual damages are not being assessed. This is like Phen Phen and the breast implant case.

Nohome:

I know two victims of sexual abuse. It has affected every aspect of their life. On guy can’t keep a job, is single, lonely and constantly think about killing himself. A million dollars can’t even begin to repay the damages done.

So why is he asking for a million dollars? That’s the problem with these cases, money is not going to help, other than to pay for therapy which may or may not be effective. It is simply punative and an attempt at retribution. Further your friend’s case is not what I am talking about, but rather those minimal cases where no proximate damage is shown and the award bears no resemblence to the offense.

Nohome:

If your diocese has to sell every thing it owns to make ammends, so be it. You reep what you sow and the bishops have sown demon seeds far too long. It’s payback time.

Nohome

Again it is retribution, not recompense by your own admission. Further the Bishops were not the perpetrators. Nor was the Archdiocese, nor were the thousands of laypeople who are paying for the sins of handful of predators. Funny that the church can be bankrupted but teachers, coaches, and club leaders who prey upon young people cannot be sued. I guess they are looking for deep pockets. Kind of an amazing coincidence I guess.

Lisa N

 

[Nohome]

Lisa N:

There aren’t that many victims but they all want a boatload of money. I think there are 58 plaintiffs in the Spokane case. I am not sure how many in Portland but we are not talking thousands or even hundreds.

58 is a huge number, we are talking about people’s lives here.
Lisa N:

As to ‘shuffling them around’ people are looking at this case with hindsight. At the time it occurred both the Bishops and the psychiatrists thought they could cure these predators. Obviously both were wrong but wrong is not malice.

It really doesn’t matter what they thought, all the laws against statutory rape and child abuse were on the books 50 years ago. What puts the RCC above the law?
Lisa N:

No one has testified yet so no crime has been committed.

Conspiracy is a crime. Solicitation to commit a crime by an attourny is a huge crime. If the conversations you report here have occurred, it should be reported to the authorities.
Lisa N:

So why is he asking for a million dollars?

He isn’t, I was just saying that you can’t put a price tag on his suffering. He has asked for nothing, for fear of persecution from people like you.
Lisa N:

That’s the problem with these cases, money is not going to help, other than to pay for therapy which may or may not be effective. It is simply punative and an attempt at retribution.

That’s not the problem with such cases, this is the beauty of such cases. The RCC needs to be held accountable, if the laity won’t do it and the clergy won’t do it, we must rely on justice from the courts.
Lisa N:

Again it is retribution, not recompense by your own admission.

I didn’t overtly state this, but let me erase any doubt. Yes, you bet your bippies this is all about retribution. I would prefer divine retribution, but will settle for civil in this case.
Lisa N:

Further the Bishops were not the perpetrators. Nor was the Archdiocese, nor were the thousands of laypeople who are paying for the sins of handful of predators

As sick as these crimes were, I could forgive them. But it was the Bishops that swept this under the rug. A crime I can’t forgive and the RCC needs to be held accountable.

Lisa N:

Funny that the church can be bankrupted but teachers, coaches, and club leaders who prey upon young people cannot be sued.Lisa N

I don’t understand this comment. In my state several teachers have been tried both criminally and in civil court for sex abuse.

I’m sorry your Church is bankrupt in shame and disgrace. Again I will say you reap what you sow and the blame for this whole mess rests on the leadership of the RCC.

Nohome

 

[barnestormer]

If ever there’s been a real-world, practical example refuting the Protestant notion that sin is just between a sinner and God, this is it.

 

[Nohome]

barnestormer:

If ever there’s been a real-world, practical example refuting the Protestant notion that sin is just between a sinner and God, this is it.

I never thought of it that way, but I can’t disagree. It’s somewhat ironic that the RCC gives us this horrid example.

 

[Lisa_N]

Nohome:

58 is a huge number, we are talking about people’s lives here

In an article about the recent banktruptcy, it was noted that the claims are for a FIFTY YEAR period. I realize that not a single victim of homosexual predation is an acceptable number. But fifty eight over fifty years considering the tens of thousands of children who were Catholic is not very many. You act like this is a hugely pervasive and common occurrance. It is not. The reality is that the Chuch has a LOWER incidence of child abuse than Protestant and Jewish faiths,not to mention school teachers, club leaders, and Little League coaches. The DIFFERENCE is that the church has assets. Funny there are no multimillion dollar judgments against a local homeless shelter where the director preyed upon young boys for YEARS. Was that acceptable? I guess not but nobody sued because the organization had no money.

Nohome:

It really doesn’t matter what they thought, all the laws against statutory rape and child abuse were on the books 50 years ago. What puts the RCC above the law?

Excuse me, did I EVER say the RCC was above the law? My only issue is the size of the awards and how much is being spent on legal fees. I would be DELIGHTED to see every pervert and every complicit bishop go to JAIL. That is where they belong. What is not fair is that hundreds of thousands of faithful and innocent Catholics have to bear the brunt of this problem. The perpetrators are not being sued.

Nohome:

Conspiracy is a crime. Solicitation to commit a crime by an attourny is a huge crime. If the conversations you report here have occurred, it should be reported to the authorities.

Again I have zero problem going through the criminal justice system. That’s where these cases belong

Nohome:

He isn’t, I was just saying that you can’t put a price tag on his suffering. He has asked for nothing, for fear of persecution from people like you.

And what do you call persecution? That I question the motives of the attorneys and at least SOME of the victims? This has become a growth industry, suing the Catholic church.

Nohome:

That’s not the problem with such cases, this is the beauty of such cases. The RCC needs to be held accountable, if the laity won’t do it and the clergy won’t do it, we must rely on justice from the courts.

Yes and again it belongs in the CRIMINAL justice system.

Nohome:

I didn’t overtly state this, but let me erase any doubt. Yes, you bet your bippies this is all about retribution. I would prefer divine retribution, but will settle for civil in this case.

Why not the criminal justice system? After all the actual perpetrators have committed crimes. How is money going to help?

Nohome:

I don’t understand this comment. In my state several teachers have been tried both criminally and in civil court for sex abuse.

Right and all the multimillion dollar settlements against school districts are all over the front pages. Get a clue here, lawyers choose suits not based on the egregious behavior of the perpetrator but on the size of the award available. Again the church is being targeted as having deep pockets.

Nohome:

I’m sorry your Church is bankrupt in shame and disgrace. Again I will say you reap what you sow and the blame for this whole mess rests on the leadership of the RCC.

Nohome

No the responsibility is with the evil men who perpetrated the crimes. Funny how no one is suing them. Again, they are suing the deep pocket, not the perpetrator.
Lisa

 

[JOHNYJ]

What have Catholics done to the bishops that kept this abomination a secret ? Nothing, no fights to have them removed no cut off of funds ( fastest way to get a bishops attention ) most are still in office.So you want to complain about the judgements and ask why,because you still haven’t learned ! These people put themselves a head of the Faith and your children .The Priests get punished.What about those that made it possible for the number of children to get molested and for the molester to have years to do their sick work.
They didn’t know ? your going to beleieve that.The Germans tried that one after WWII .It didn’t work than,it doesn’t work now.

 

[JOHNYJ]

The first thing you people in Spokane should sell is the Archbishops Residence.
According to the AP the plan in use by the Bishops to stop the victims from getting justice. Lies,obstruction,delay,have failed.They do drag things out,but.Latest reports says they piss off the judges that are over seeing the cases. When they come to a conclusion the pissed off judge comes down harder, for being jerked around. Also if the Judge is Catholic the diocese gets it even worse.
Its said that many diocese have become gun shy that the least vague accusation and they pay off.Of course unscroupulous people are taking advantage of this.
When this mess started it was very hard for victims to get lawyers to take their cases.What lawyer would want to go up against the Catholic church and its deep pockets ( thanks to the faithful ) .Over cases years old . When they were able to find lawyers .they had to do it on a percentage if they won. So while the churches lawyers were paid no matter what happened .The victims lawyers only got paid if they won. Yes its changed spomewhat after all the Reparations are almost $ 2,000,000,000, and will probably go higher.

 

[Lisa_N]

JOHNYJ:

The first thing you people in Spokane should sell is the Archbishops Residence.
According to the AP the plan in use by the Bishops to stop the victims from getting justice. Lies,obstruction,delay,have failed.They do drag things out,but.Latest reports says they piss off the judges that are over seeing the cases. When they come to a conclusion the pissed off judge comes down harder, for being jerked around. Also if the Judge is Catholic the diocese gets it even worse.
Its said that many diocese have become gun shy that the least vague accusation and they pay off.Of course unscroupulous people are taking advantage of this.
When this mess started it was very hard for victims to get lawyers to take their cases.What lawyer would want to go up against the Catholic church and its deep pockets ( thanks to the faithful ) .Over cases years old . When they were able to find lawyers .they had to do it on a percentage if they won. So while the churches lawyers were paid no matter what happened .The victims lawyers only got paid if they won. Yes its changed spomewhat after all the Reparations are almost $ 2,000,000,000, and will probably go higher.

Look I have no problem with suing the perpetrators. What I do have a problem with is reaching out to confiscate property that has no relationship to the case at all. They are even talking about disinterring people from Catholic cemeteries. They are talking about closing Catholic schoools. They are talking about confiscating residences used for retired priests and religious.

Fine, sue the SOB’s who perpetrated the abuse. Sue their direct superiors IF they were complicit.

But suing and confiscating MY parish’s property for abuse that happened in another parish 300 miles away that NO ONE IN MY PARISH PARTICIPATED IN makes about as much sense as suing someone who happened to be on the same freeway when your car was wrecked.

Lisa N

 

[mgy100]

A whole diocese in Newfoundland had to close all of its parishes, I can’t remember where i read that. Maybe some of out northern brethren can enlighten us.

 

[JOHNYJ]

I thought bakruptcy was the silver bullet that would protect the archdiocese from excessive judgements,what happened?

 

[reen12]

Remember Francis of Asissi? Own no property.

Or Jesus saying: The Son of Man has nowhere to lay
His head.

If a diocese chose to become a legal entity, this is the
end result. The legal entity owns the assets. Didn’t
the Princes of the Church see the signs of the times?
Couldn’t they have begun to spin off assets, so that
each parish became it’s own “corporation” -when it became
*clear that the Church now existed *in a litigous society,
25 years ago!

The only biblical parallel I can find in all of this is
the Babylonian Captivity. Israel was taken captive,
it’s property seized, and the inhabitants taken to
Babylon.

Two thoughts:

Those who built those churches [including my own
great-grandparents, I’m sure] are beyond injury.
They see God in the face.

What message, if any, is being conveyed to members
of the RCC here, now, today?

How about the Psalm: “Put not your trust in Princes…”

In my view, the arrogance and plain stupidity, here, are
world class. I’d like to say that the whole situation is
“unbelievable”, but I’ve lived too long, and seen too
much, to say that with a straight face.
There’s a price to pay for triumphalism. We’re now in
the midst of paying it.

Who knows? The bankruptcy incidents may end up to be
blessings in disguise.
Own no property…it ends up owning you.
Apparently, Francis of Asissi knew that.

reen12

 

[Brucealeg]

I just found this thread and I can not believe some of the comments. I understand how vile these acts were, but how does becoming what you despise help you to heal? One wrong does not cure another.

I will not believe that blind vengence will heal a victum of sexual abuse. If anything, it will only make their problems worse.

Bruce