L.A. Cardinal to Defy Illegal Immigration Bill

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“I don’t believe Cardinal Mahoney is being arrogant or deliberately disobeying laws”

I do not believe he is necessarily arrogant, but he is most certainly deliberately requiring his priests to disobey this rule if it becomes law. If the priests under his charge listen to him it will be they, NOT the Bishop, who will go to jail or pay the fine. Mahoney will just spout off edicts from the safety of his mansion.

“For the second time, there is no such law.”

Mahoney is trying to do a pre-emptive strike. Read what he said. He fully expects his priests to violate the law of this country if the bill is passed. I am AMAZED that the tone of this forum has no problem with what Mahoney is doing.

Kirane has posted the relevant part of this proposed law: House Bill 4437, passed last December 16th, would make it a criminal offense to knowingly assist illegals in evading immigration laws." There are many churches who are deliberately giving haven to ILLEGAL immigrants in direct violation of common sense, the law of the land, and the safety of ALL citizens.

Why doesn’t Mahoney set up missions to help the Mexicans IN MEXICO? There he could feed and clothe the poor while instructing them NOT to cross the border in DIRECT violation of our law. Forms for applying for LEGAL immigration status could be provided and counselors could help the Mexicans fill out the forms. There are much better ways to handle this than Mahoney having his priests skulk around in the middle of the night harboring ILLEGAL immigrants that could easily constitute groups of terrorist, gang members, etc.

I remain appalled that ANY Catholic, let alone a Bishop, is calling for this nonsense!
 
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Cossack1:
Why doesn’t Mahoney set up missions to help the Mexicans IN MEXICO? There he could feed and clothe the poor while instructing them NOT to cross the border in DIRECT violation of our law. Forms for applying for LEGAL immigration status could be provided and counselors could help the Mexicans fill out the forms. There are much better ways to handle this than Mahoney having his priests skulk around in the middle of the night harboring ILLEGAL immigrants that could easily constitute groups of terrorist, gang members, etc.
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Fair point.
 
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Cossack1:
I am appalled that so many of you support the idea of a Catholic bishop expressly telling his priests to disobey a law of this country.
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So was Henry VII- that is why he had St. John Fisher executed. God and the Church are ABOVE the state- any state- yes, even the good ol’ US of A. It is idolatry to put your country before God, His laws, and His Church.
This bill is not about the priests being police it simply prohibits the deliberate act of harboring or hiding ILLEGAL immigrants from authorities. NOTE: Contrary to the good bishop’s use of just “immigrant” I called them what they are; ILLEGAL IMIGRENTS. A country is literally defined by its borders and what Mahony has suggested would negate the law and make the Church his partner in crime. This is outrageous and all of you who support him are either misinformed or are the types who support criminals and terrorist.
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The Bishops are not police- their job is service to the Faithful.
It amazes me when bishops and priests are so arrogant that they consider themselves infallible experts in matters of war, terrorist, and crime. ANY terrorist willing to strap a bomb on himself and kill thousands of innocents would have no problem trekking through the desert or swimming the Rio Grande to get into this country. We are talking NATIONAL SECURITY here and Mahony is ignoring the safety of all of us.
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Most illegal immigrants are not criminals- other than for being illegal immigrants. They simply want a better life for themselves and their families then they can get in their own country. Whether they should be here at all or not is something for another thread, or at least another post, but if someone is hurt or sick, they should be cared for. If a policeman shoots someone while trying to arrest them, they get medical care- immigrants should be no different.
 
“Unless you are a Native American, everyone in here is the son or daughter of immigrants,” said Mahony, speaking during Mass at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels.
Mahony told those attending Mass he was not in favor of “unfettered immigration,” but that the current system was inhumane and inefficient. He said stringent laws and government bureaucracy meant immigrants were often separated up to 15 years from family members trying to immigrate.

He’s got a point.
Part of what his priests do is help the immigrants regularize their situations – become legal immigrants.
I don’t believe he means they are to help anyone evade the INS, but refrain from turning them in.
 
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Cossack1:
It amazes me when bishops and priests are so arrogant that they consider themselves infallible experts in matters of war, terrorist, and crime. ANY terrorist willing to strap a bomb on himself and kill thousands of innocents would have no problem trekking through the desert or swimming the Rio Grande to get into this country. We are talking NATIONAL SECURITY here and Mahony is ignoring the safety of all of us.

Well said!!! Mahoney needs to read your post.
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Cossack1:
I am appalled that so many of you support the idea of a Catholic bishop expressly telling his priests to disobey a law of this country. This bill is not about the priests being police it simply prohibits the deliberate act of harboring or hiding ILLEGAL immigrants from authorities. NOTE: Contrary to the good bishop’s use of just “immigrant” I called them what they are; ILLEGAL IMIGRENTS. A country is literally defined by its borders and what Mahony has suggested would negate the law and make the Church his partner in crime. This is outrageous and all of you who support him are either misinformed or are the types who support criminals and terrorist.

It amazes me when bishops and priests are so arrogant that they consider themselves infallible experts in matters of war, terrorist, and crime. ANY terrorist willing to strap a bomb on himself and kill thousands of innocents would have no problem trekking through the desert or swimming the Rio Grande to get into this country. We are talking NATIONAL SECURITY here and Mahony is ignoring the safety of all of us.

What the illegal immigrants do is a slap in the face to the many of LEGAL immigrants who come to this country by filling out the correct forms, paying the fees, taking the tests and background checks, etc. Why do all that when you can just scoot over a fence and people like Mahony will welcome you with open arms? He and all his supporters should be ashamed of themselves.
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What a great post!!! Epecially the middle paragraph. Mahoney should read this and maybe he might change his mind. Terrorism is alive and well and while most illegals want to just have a better life, some want to harm us. Legal documentation is essential in this day and age.
 
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Cossack1:
I am appalled that so many of you support the idea of a Catholic bishop expressly telling his priests to disobey a law of this country. This bill is not about the priests being police it simply prohibits the deliberate act of harboring or hiding ILLEGAL immigrants from authorities. NOTE: Contrary to the good bishop’s use of just “immigrant” I called them what they are; ILLEGAL IMIGRENTS. A country is literally defined by its borders and what Mahony has suggested would negate the law and make the Church his partner in crime. This is outrageous and all of you who support him are either misinformed or are the types who support criminals and terrorist.

It amazes me when bishops and priests are so arrogant that they consider themselves infallible experts in matters of war, terrorist, and crime. ANY terrorist willing to strap a bomb on himself and kill thousands of innocents would have no problem trekking through the desert or swimming the Rio Grande to get into this country. We are talking NATIONAL SECURITY here and Mahony is ignoring the safety of all of us.

What the illegal immigrants do is a slap in the face to the many of LEGAL immigrants who come to this country by filling out the correct forms, paying the fees, taking the tests and background checks, etc. Why do all that when you can just scoot over a fence and people like Mahony will welcome you with open arms? He and all his supporters should be ashamed of themselves.
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Good post, Cossack! I agree 100%. Way back when, the laws in this country used to mean something, and it used to be an honor for somebody to study, learn some english, and be sworn in as a citizen of this country, usually on new years day. But the border policies lately have made a mockery of the law. I have heard that some of the politicians want to make the US, Canada, and Mexico into one, big , happy country, ala the EU. Maybe this is just a beginning. Think about it!
 
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snoopy:
What a great post!!! Epecially the middle paragraph. Mahoney should read this and maybe he might change his mind. Terrorism is alive and well and while most illegals want to just have a better life, some want to harm us. Legal documentation is essential in this day and age.
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I also like the post mentioned… Sadly, I recently watched a news program concerning a facility run by the Catholic Church in Mexico which ministers and assists those who are preparing to cross the border illegaly. While there is a need to provide services for the poor who are here, I believe the Church goes too far if it is facilitating in any way the tide of illegal immigration into the country. The earlier post seems right…it does seem to be a sort of arrogance which influences Catholic leadership to act against the best security interest of their own neighbors and country.
 
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davy39:
Good post, Cossack! I agree 100%. Way back when, the laws in this country used to mean something, and it used to be an honor for somebody to study, learn some english, and be sworn in as a citizen of this country, usually on new years day. But the border policies lately have made a mockery of the law. I have heard that some of the politicians want to make the US, Canada, and Mexico into one, big , happy country, ala the EU. Maybe this is just a beginning. Think about it!
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Countries who put themselves above God’s law get cut down to size sooner or later. I love my country, and I’m proud to be a part of it, but I am Catholic first. Catholics in this country- both to the left and the right, would do well to remember that.

I’m not generally a fan of Cardinal Mahony’s, but it isn’t the clergy’s job to check a persons immigration status. Their job is to save souls.
 
Those of you assuming that Cardinal Mahoney is being arrogant, are judging him. You have no way of knowing what his motives are. Christian charity would demand that you give him the benefit of the doubt. I would have to assume that he is acting out of compassion for the poorest among us.

Having said that, I also believe every nation has a right to it’s sovereignty. Every nation has a right to decide how and when their borders will be crossed. Even those open to immigration have the right to check at the border for criminals or those that would do harm to its citizens.

I trust Cardinal Mahoney will rethink this in the light of the current situation, and if he doesn’t, I will assume he is acting on compassion and let the Lord be his Judge.
 
I would like to make a point that seems likely no one has considered: the Catholic Church recieves MILLIONS of TAX DOLLARS to run its’ charities. In Masachusetts, 80% of Catholic Charities dollars were TAX DOLLARS, and this means that the government has basically threatened to pullout of the charity “business” if the Church doesn’t do their dance. Everything was fine while churches were willing to look the other way on issues too numerous to mention, such as birth control, condoms, adoption by same-sex couples, etc etc, etc., but now that it is an issue that they don’t want to cooperate over, it is a major problem. Believe me, I have worked for two diocesan charities and know that precious little money is truly intended for the needy, but rather, form-fitted to the demands of various “funding sources” , the largest of which is the state and local government.

All of human services in general has deteriorated into a business venture that has compromised its original intent and particularly for the Catholic Churchs’ ability to connect it with their mission to save souls. Hopefully, the government will follow through with their threat and the Church will have to take a good hard look at this terrible situation and really begin to be accountable to God for their works.
 
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iserve:
I would like to make a point that seems likely no one has considered: the Catholic Church recieves MILLIONS of TAX DOLLARS to run its’ charities. In Masachusetts, 80% of Catholic Charities dollars were TAX DOLLARS, and this means that the government has basically threatened to pullout of the charity “business” if the Church doesn’t do their dance. Everything was fine while churches were willing to look the other way on issues too numerous to mention, such as birth control, condoms, adoption by same-sex couples, etc etc, etc., but now that it is an issue that they don’t want to cooperate over, it is a major problem. Believe me, I have worked for two diocesan charities and know that precious little money is truly intended for the needy, but rather, form-fitted to the demands of various “funding sources” , the largest of which is the state and local government.

All of human services in general has deteriorated into a business venture that has compromised its original intent and particularly for the Catholic Churchs’ ability to connect it with their mission to save souls. Hopefully, the government will follow through with their threat and the Church will have to take a good hard look at this terrible situation and really begin to be accountable to God for their works.
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The primary objective of charity is to exercise ones love of others. When Charity was replaced by Social Justice the objective changed to curing all the world’s ills. The Church appears to have forgotten that God could cure all those ills in a moment. He wants us to exercise our love.
 
The Church should not be accepting government funds or tax dollars for anything and for any purpose. Everyone knows what that will lead to, and now it is here.

As a child in the 1960s I remember the Church and our Catholic school taking a very strong stance against accepting any kind of government funding. I am very dismayed that that has changed. We should put a stop to it immediately.

Having worked for the government for a good number of years, I can tell you that anytime the government funds anything, there are strings attached. Either the organization does what the government wants them to, or their funding gets pulled.

If Catholics and parishioners will not support their Church, then they deserve what they get – but government funding should not even be an option, it is just Socialism in practice.
 
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seabird3579:
. . .
Having worked for the government for a good number of years, I can tell you that anytime the government funds anything, there are strings attached. Either the organization does what the government wants them to, or their funding gets pulled.

. . .
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THE GOLDEN RULE [government version]:
**He who has the Gold; makes the Rules. 😃 **
Universities who oppose ROTC please take note.
 
Absolutely, and you can’t even begin to imagine my dismay while I watched the two entities I worked for do the most outrageous things to stay “in the game”. One of those entities is being shaken to its’ core right now over the gay adoption issue, but they and many other “Catholic” social services, have done this under the radar for years, with no interest from anyone. Everything Catholic was laughed at and spurned while “social justice” without boundaries was upheld. One agency I worked for had a priest on board who stole donations for his own purpose and was caught drinking on the premises, but no one in charge cared, he was there for reasons that must have been far greater than the scandal he caused. Meanwhile, the old chapel on the grounds was full of dust and storage items, never used for worship, and certainly never thought of as a “source” of anything other than an extra room to wrap the Christmas gifts in; not a glimmer of the “gifts” that were being squandered.

Losing outside funding will quickly chase away the phonies and the folks who have drained off all the good stuff for themselves. It will completely discourage the folks whose god is money and power and prestige. Only then will these entities return to their original purpose of serving others out of love for God, in perfect trust of the Catholics in whose name they operate. Let them all walk, and “don’t let the door hit you…”
 
Heheh, I remember watching the Irish news, to see over one thousand Irish immigrants protesting in Washington DC over the issue, I’m sure his surname has got nothing to do with his sympathy 😛

Though the present class of Irish immigrants are entirely different to those of Cardinal Mahoney’s descendants. For one, every Irish person interviewed there stated they were only to be there temporarily, until their circumstances changed, and they ended up with many friends, and a new life. (Though all retained their accents :p) 🙂
 
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Jeffrey:
I dunno… we need to get illegal’s to either come over legal… or leave… not give them an incentive to cross illegally IMO.
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TOTALLY AGREE. It is not the right of anyone to break the law and ignore the actions of a legal government entity.
The church argues when the state interferes in church policy, (funding of programs as mentioned) but now the church would interfere in government policy. If Mahoney wants to send food, medicine, clothing, money, etc. to those across the border, fine! That is charity and good. To aid and abet the violation of law is bad.
As I see it Mahoney is advocating breaking of legal law. ‘Give unto Caesar’, or is that now forgotten.
I want more immigration control, not less, and not sidestepped by those who claim piety while ignoring legal law.
If Mahoney wants to change the law let him run for elected office.
 
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Lynn-D:
It is not the right of anyone to break the law and ignore the actions of a legal government entity.
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It is even less the right of anyone to deny someone basic care based on their immigration status.
 
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m134e5:
It is even less the right of anyone to deny someone basic care based on their immigration status.
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I see, it is my responsibility to turn away in the face of legal law so that a person that is deemed a lawbreaker is someone I should welcome . Not in my world.
If someone is here legally then of course give them a step up. That does not mean we should provide a haven and be an enabler for those who are here illegally. If up to me, (I am Irish Catholic, by the way), I would put Mahoney in jail if he broke the law.
Lynn-D
 
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