LA Religion Religious Congress 2008

[Freshman88]

Sorry, I stand by what I said. As I mentioned, a cursory examination of the threads in this forum, etc., etc.

Your holding on to your position so tightly because of… forums?! Internet forums?

That’s just laughable.

Before you continue to demean traditionalists, why not get off the computer and actually visit a few EF parishes. I’ve been to at least a half dozen EF parishes across two very distinct provinces and cultures and have particpated in those parishes. There may be some similarities, but not in the people! Being a traditionalist doesn’t make you prone to the vial and horrible characteristics you persist on using. We are families, punks, sticklers, conservatives, liberals, old, young, newborn, fathers, sons,
atheletes yet you slander “many” of us.

What about the clergy? tell me, are many of the traditionalist clergy fitting the picture you paint?

How about this, try some empathy before you persist in calling my “many” friends and family and clergy the things you do.

I’m done with this thread.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Your holding on to your position so tightly because of… forums?! Internet forums?

That’s just laughable.

Before you continue to demean traditionalists, why not get off the computer and actually visit a few EF parishes. I’ve been to at least a half dozen EF parishes across two very distinct provinces and cultures and have particpated in those parishes. There may be some similarities, but not in the people! Being a traditionalist doesn’t make you prone to the vial and horrible characteristics you persist on using. We are families, punks, sticklers, conservatives, liberals, old, young, newborn, fathers, sons, atheletes yet you slander “many” of us.

How about this, try some empathy before you persist in calling my “many” friends and family the things you do.

I’m done with this thread.

Well, kiddo, all I can say is what I said before: if it doesn’t apply to YOU, don’t take it as though it does. I do put “traditionalists” in quotation marks, you know. I’ve also never said that being a traditionalist made one “prone” to arrogance or pomposity nor that being a traditionalist made one guilty of those faults. I’ve merely said that such attitudes are common in the threads of these fora (and I believe an objective reading of them would bear them out). Don’t feel bad, I’d say the same thing about liberals, but they don’t have a forum and Joan Chichester, OSB, doesn’t post here.

And I’m sorry, but how can a “traditionalist” be liberal? I thought that was a heresy.

And the clergy? Oh yes. One example I can cite is the SSPX chapel I visited, where the homily consisted of the priest saying that the Novus Ordo was an abomination…twice. How does that compare with Cardinal Mahoney’s remark re: the EF?

 

[Freshman88]

Well, kiddo, all I can say is what I said before: if it doesn’t apply to YOU, don’t take it as though it does. I do put “traditionalists” in quotation marks, you know. I’ve also never said that being a traditionalist made one “prone” to arrogance or pomposity nor that being a traditionalist made one guilty of those faults. I’ve merely said that such attitudes are common in the threads of these fora (and I believe an objective reading of them would bear them out). Don’t feel bad, I’d say the same thing about liberals, but they don’t have a forum and Joan Chichester, OSB, doesn’t post here.

And I’m sorry, but how can a “traditionalist” be liberal? I thought that was a heresy.

Look buddy, what you seem to forget is that these are real people. I live with these people day in and day out. Yet you sit behind your computer bathing in your ignorance and arrogance telling me that the traditionalists I surround myself with are mostly the things you say they are.

Why not get to know these “many” people … people I happen to love and care for.

Your just a cold person if you can’t make this connection. And all for what? So you win an arguement?

Real class act.

 

[maurin]

Talk to your fellow “traditionlist!” I thought I was simply being “traditional.”

I’m talking to you, Kirk–the one who is behaving exactly the way he is accusing the other of behaving.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Look buddy, what you seem to forget is that these are real people. I live with these people day in and day out. Yet you sit behind your computer bathing in your ignorance and arrogance.

Why not get to know these “many” people … people I happen to love and care for.

I don’t think you know enough about me to say that. I sing in a schola (we sing the commons in Latin) in a parish where the priest is slowly trying to restore reverence to the liturgy, where an attempt to address the bad is made day in and day out.

And I did attempt to get to know them…and had the liturgy I treasure, that brought me into the Church, called an abomination. I edited my post, as I overlooked your question about the clergy. Now, answer me: how was this priest any different than Cardinal Mahoney?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I’m talking to you, Kirk–the one who is behaving exactly the way he is accusing the other of behaving.

As I said, look to your own house.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

It boils down to this:

A) The second poster had a valid point

B) The second poster engaged in no character assassination.

 

[maurin]

Because error is error and fraternal correction is, last I heard, an act of mercy. That’s why lots of regular old Catholics hang out in this forum.

but are obviously above and in no need of fraternal correction themselves!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

but are obviously above correction themselves!
:applause:

Like I said, I thought I was being traditional!

And be honest, in your heart of hearts, before the Holy One:

wasn’t sarcastic?!?!?

 

[maurin]

Like I said, I thought I was being traditional!

no, Kirk. You’re being exactly what you are complaining about: arrogant, pompous and full of attitude.

Let’s move onto something more profitable and constructive, oughtn’t we?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

no, Kirk. You’re being exactly what you are complaining about: arrogant, pompous and full of attitude.

Let’s move onto something more profitable and constructive, oughtn’t we?

Sorry you feel that way. And you didn’t answer the question, I note.

 

[maurin]

And be honest, in your heart of hearts, before the Holy One:

wasn’t sarcastic?!?!?

honestly, no. it was meant to lighten the mood, get us to move on from this ridiculousness.

mea culpa if you took it as a slam. It wasn’t intended as such: in my heart of hearts, before the Holy One.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

honestly, no. it was meant to lighten the mood, get us to move on from this ridiculousness.

mea culpa if you took it as a slam. It wasn’t intended as such: in my heart of hearts, before the Holy One.

Then I apologize if I have unintentionally maligned you with the question.

 

[maurin]

Sorry you feel that way. And you didn’t answer the question, I note.

because I responded to it and hit “submit” before you finished editing it in.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

see above

 

[maurin]

Then I apologize if I have unintentionally maligned you with the question.

no, I only feel maligned by your generalizations, and this newfound attitude of yours. This is really un-like you, Kirk.

What’s going on?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

But seriously, how about an answer to this question, Freshman:

Was not the SSPX priest who called the OF an abomination essentially guilty of the same thing as Cardinal Mahoney?

 

[I_Believe]

No, it doesn’t. You maintain a certain stance to the OF that is not supported by what the Holy Father said in Summorum Pontificum. That’s what I’m addressing.

Because error is error and fraternal correction is, last I heard, an act of mercy. That’s why lots of regular old Catholics hang out in this forum.

Quote my words in this thread where I took a “stance” on the NO.

You are like many here, who once they identify someone as a traditionalist, you want to badger them with the same old tired cliches born of the stigma concerning the TLM. That stigma has been formally lifted by H.H. BXVI. Why can’t you simply accept it ?

Have you ever wondered what BXVI meant when he asked us to pray for him, that he not flee for fear of the wolves ? Who do you think the wolves are ?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

no, I only feel maligned by your generalizations, and this newfound attitude of yours. This is really un-like you, Kirk.

What’s going on?

Maurin, honestly, I am unaltered and unchanged. I’ve never given quarter to a “traditionalist” that was wrong. I would never give it to a liberal, either, but as I said, Joanie Chichester et al doesn’t post here. If you regard that as arrogance, well, I don’t know what to say. I CAN be arrogant, I suppose I can be pompous, too, but I don’t think that defending the second poster’s complaint as just makes me either. I’m truly sorry, but I don’t see it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Quote my words in this thread where I took a “stance” on the NO.

You are like many here, who once they identify someone as a traditionalist, you want to badger them with the same old tired cliches born of the stigma concerning the TLM. That stigma has been formally lifted by H.H. BXVI. Why can’t you simply accept it ? **That’s absurd and unfounded. I prayed that the aspirations of those that loved the TLM would be fufilled. I haven’t attached any stigma to the EF. I was happy for all of “you” when the MP lifted it. I was dismayed when Cardinal Martini disparged the EF and said he wouldn’t celebrate it. I thought it reprehensible that any priest of the Church would refuse to celebrate a legitimate rite. It’s you who are the victim of cliche: you think that because I prefer the OF, in the vernacular, I hate the EF. The truth of the matter is, I simply don’t even think about it very much. I tried it, found I prefered the OF, and simply didn’t continue to go. **

Have you ever wondered what BXVI meant when he asked us to pray for him, that he not flee for fear of the wolves ? Who do you think the wolves are ?

Wolves can come in all stripes, liberal and conservative…even traditional. Whether one falls out of the boat on the right side or the left side, one has fallen out of the boat.