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damooster
Guest
Did you, or people that share your same avenue of attack, ever stop and think that attitudes like this drive people away from traditionalism?
I am very much interested in learning about traditional Catholic practices, and to attend a TLM, but it’s people like you that keep me away.
I don’t mean to be insulting, but if this is the kind of elitism and sarcasm I can expect to see, I want no part of it.
I am very much interested in learning about traditional Catholic practices, and to attend a TLM, but it’s people like you that keep me away.
I don’t mean to be insulting, but if this is the kind of elitism and sarcasm I can expect to see, I want no part of it.
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Orate
Guest
I’ll politely ignore the previous accusation and ask why on earth are liturgical “dancers” required in Anaheim California? and why are they flocked around the altar??
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ncjohn
Guest
It is certainly sad to see that we can go so quickly on the attack against fellow Catholics who appear to be expressing their faith to the world.
Just because it may be different than the way some might express theirs doesn’t make it “bad”.
Father forgive us for those times we grieve you in wounding your Body.
Just because it may be different than the way some might express theirs doesn’t make it “bad”.
Father forgive us for those times we grieve you in wounding your Body.
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bkovacs
Guest
It’s not an attack!. It’s a realization that the Catholic Church has serious problems liturgically and spiritually. And that these are the problems that effect the very identity of what it is to be Roman Catholic, and the traditions we inherited from the Holy Saints and Church Fathers are being neglected by events like this. By those who have power in the Church.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Granted, the irregularities at Cardinal Mahoney’s conference are serious. That doesn’t set aside the legitimacy of the “accusation.” The OP makes fun of the term “instilled with Christ!” as it regards the Conference (not all of which may be irregular). This implies that HE or SHE knows what it means to be “instilled with Christ,” an arrogant attitude frequently exhibited by so-called “traditionalists.” So it was a perfectly cogent observation on the part of the second poster.
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Freshman88
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In every thread on these boards, the argument is always reduced to the character of the traditionalist.
What are you suggesting? That it’s impossible to know what it means to be instilled with Christ? If that’s the case, the phrase is meaningless. Of course one can know what it means to be instilled with Christ!
What are you suggesting? That it’s impossible to know what it means to be instilled with Christ? If that’s the case, the phrase is meaningless. Of course one can know what it means to be instilled with Christ!
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maurin
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that’s because they have no answer. they love the Church in their hearts, as they should!, and on some level they recoil at the ridiculousness of what they see, but can’t bring themselves–out of loyalty?-- to admit that there are sad deficiencies around them.
Easier to make an attack rather than deal with the disappointments.
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mystified
Guest
Okay, I give up. Can someone show me in the GIRM the use of baskets and Kool-Aid pitchers on the altar?
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
No, I’m suggesting that it not be employed in the mocking of others and that to do so immediately begs the question “so what do YOU know about it?” and begets a reaction probably opposite to that hoped for or anticipated by the person making the observation.
Liturgical dancing is an abuse because it is forbidden. It’s wrong to do it because it touches on a matter of obedience. Were the Church to permit it, it would not be an abuse and liturgical dancers and those who permitted them to dance MIGHT (or might NOT) be “instilled with Christ.”
And it doesn’t take an terribly high IQ nor does one have to spend a great deal of time on this forum to detect arrogance and pomposity on the part of some so-called “traditionalists.”
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bkovacs
Guest
It is the expression like this of the Roman Catholic Mass that will destroy the very identity of Roman Catholicism. What Pope Benedict XVI is trying to prevent. If this becomes the standard by which our youth identify Catholicism with than the rich traditions of Roman Catholicism, like the TLM, the, Gregorian Chant, the arts, etc…, will never be carried forward.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
I don’t have it in front of me, but the law of the Church is that at the bare minimum, the sacred vessels are supposed to be guilded on the surface that touches the Most Sacred Species.Okay, I give up. Can someone show me in the GIRM the use of baskets and Kool-Aid pitchers on the altar?
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Don’t generalize, my friend, many of us have questioned priests at the doors of our parishes after Sunday Mass while they were greeting parishoners as to the irregularities they witnessed. The existance of irregularities doesn’t excuse arrogance on the part of those witnessing said irregularities.
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JKirkLVNV
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There is no danger that it will become the standard, because it is at odds with obedience. The reform of the reform, ie, the continued organic development and evolution of the liturgy may well NOT look precisely like the TLM. I doubt either “camp” will be completely satisfied.
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bkovacs
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And for the record, what I meant with instilled with Christ, was a reflection on what Mahony said in regards to the TLM. Quote:"
CardinalMahony: Ann: The Tridentine Mass was meant for those who could not make the transition from Latin to English [or other languages] after the Council. But there is no participation by the people, and I don’t believe that instills the spirit of Christ among us."
A slap in the face to all the Roman Catholics who were instilled with the spirit from the TLM, like the countless Saints who were cannonized by the Roman Catholic Church before the liturgical changes of V2. .
CardinalMahony: Ann: The Tridentine Mass was meant for those who could not make the transition from Latin to English [or other languages] after the Council. But there is no participation by the people, and I don’t believe that instills the spirit of Christ among us."
A slap in the face to all the Roman Catholics who were instilled with the spirit from the TLM, like the countless Saints who were cannonized by the Roman Catholic Church before the liturgical changes of V2. .
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
He was wrong to say it, you were wrong to mock him. You would have been right to have questioned his saying it, but wrong to mock him. He is still a priest, he still holds within himself the indelible nature of Christ’s Own Priesthood, and he is still a successor to the Apostles. No matter how incorrect Bishop Williamson’s opinions are on any given topic or how irregular his status, I still recognize that he is an Alter Christi…pretty “traditional” Catholic mindset, I would think.
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malphono
Guest
Well, well, what a circus. That slide-show brought back a lot of nightmarish memories from the late '60 and early '70s. The Kool-Air pitchers & baskets (of what?) in particular were a hoot. Reminded me of the big bottles of Coke and bags of chips I mentioned in another thread a while back. (And there are those in this forum who didn’t believe such things ever existed. 
)
All I can say is thank the Good Lord I don’t have to deal with it.
)All I can say is thank the Good Lord I don’t have to deal with it.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
As I said, I very much doubt this is the standard, though I will have to say that most of the times that I’ve noticed irregularities at Mass, they have taken place on my vaction…which is always on the California coast. Last weekend, I went to San Buenaventure Mission in Ventura, CA, in the Archdiocese of LA. The Most Precious Blood was consecrated in a glass chalice. Sad, in the place founded by Fr. Lausin for the salvation of souls and the spread of the Gospel.Well, well, what a circus. That slide-show brought back a lot of nightmarish memories from the late '60 and early '70s. The Kool-Air pitchers & baskets (of what?) in particular were a hoot. Reminded me of the big bottles of Coke and bags of chips I mentioned in another thread a while back. (And there are those in this forum who didn’t believe such things ever existed.
All I can say is thank the Good Lord I don’t have to deal with it.
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Freshman88
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benedictgal
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However, when the intergrity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is attacked, then, we cannot sit idly by and have our heads in the sand and say nothing.
There is no document from the CDWDS that permits liturgical dance in the Latin Rite. Even those who try to use inculturation to justify this notion may not realize that inculturation only works in missionary lands where the Gospel has just been preached.
Jesus certainly had no qualms about throwing out the moneychangers and the animal handlers from the Temple.
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